Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG I can't keep working for MCPS. When is central office going to realize what a train wreck schools are nowadays? I only teach at the elementary level and the disrespect I witness daily is appalling. I've sat through countless staff meetings on courageous conversations about race, institutional racism, color blindness...you name it. None of them have given us concrete strategies to implement. It's all come down to - we are mainly white privileged women who can't possibly understand our students.

I'm so tired of watching my colleagues cry about work, bend over backwards for kids and still take abuse daily from kids. Do county parents know that last year MCPS had the highest number of teachers out on long term mental health leave than they have ever had? I'm wondering if we will top that this year?

Can you share the info behind that statistic? Trust me when I say it may come in handy.

These PD sessions at staff meetings are a joke. How many times can you hear that YOU'RE the problem? Eventually, people will move on and out. And the county will be left with nothing but subs. If you mistreat teachers, the school system suffers. But it's always about the kids, according to MCPS. Guess what, county? Once the fed up teachers are gone, the system is dead!

What a g-damn joke!

[Anonymous]

I can see the frustration that the policy isn’t based on data, but optics matter and I would like MCPS to be on the side of trying to unearth and correct unconscious bias! And I get the sense that most people in this thread have kids that aren’t getting suspended regularly, so why are you so upset? If it means that a little tiny bit of good can be done in this arena then yay, right?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was posted in the comments for OP's article:

For example, let's look at the weekly crime summary, which MCPD publishes on their website. The most recent is the report published on 2/18. It shows crimes, and if the suspect was not located, then a description of the suspect. I counted them up in cases where the race was listed:

13 black males, one Indian male. No white males. No Hispanic males. No women.

Now, I suppose one explanation is the witnesses and victims were misidentifying the race of the suspects, and the suspect was actually of a different race. But these are crimes all around the county, with different victims each time. I doubt they're all getting it wrong.

Maybe this was an anomaly. Let's look at the previous report, published on 2/6/20:
8 black males. No white males. No hispanic males. There was one woman of unknown race.

So, based on crime statistics, if there's a correlation between people who do bad things after graduating, and people who do bad things while still in school, then perhaps the numbers of black males suspended is actually disproportionately low?


I looked it up, and the data they refer to is here:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/crime/summaries.html

Or cops let white guys and crying women off with a warning

And teachers treat black males so badly they drop out and sell pot to make money ... the same pot white men sell legally.

But crime summaries are based on victims reporting a crime, and the report by the victim or witnesses about the suspect. It's not arrests (where police could be subjective), just crime reports by victims.

No it’s not but are you trying to argue that Becky is less biased then a cop? you really need to educate yourself on the criminal justice system

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was posted in the comments for OP's article:

For example, let's look at the weekly crime summary, which MCPD publishes on their website. The most recent is the report published on 2/18. It shows crimes, and if the suspect was not located, then a description of the suspect. I counted them up in cases where the race was listed:

13 black males, one Indian male. No white males. No Hispanic males. No women.

Now, I suppose one explanation is the witnesses and victims were misidentifying the race of the suspects, and the suspect was actually of a different race. But these are crimes all around the county, with different victims each time. I doubt they're all getting it wrong.

Maybe this was an anomaly. Let's look at the previous report, published on 2/6/20:
8 black males. No white males. No hispanic males. There was one woman of unknown race.

So, based on crime statistics, if there's a correlation between people who do bad things after graduating, and people who do bad things while still in school, then perhaps the numbers of black males suspended is actually disproportionately low?


I looked it up, and the data they refer to is here:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/crime/summaries.html

Or cops let white guys and crying women off with a warning

And teachers treat black males so badly they drop out and sell pot to make money ... the same pot white men sell legally.

But crime summaries are based on victims reporting a crime, and the report by the victim or witnesses about the suspect. It's not arrests (where police could be subjective), just crime reports by victims.

The FBI victimization report (summary of race of offending by victim reporting) and the actual percentages of each race arrested and prosecuted for crimes match up almost exactly. The people committing the crimes are the people being arrested. If you look at the Washington Posts database on police shootings, blacks make up 25%, whites more than 50%, even though blacks commit close to 50% of all violent crime. In addition, in 2019 19 unarmed whites were shot by police compared to 9 blacks. These facts are in direct opposition to the reporting from the media.

Except there are six times as many whites as blacks in this country, not twice as many.

I suppose you think police just randomly shoot people. Almost all of these shootings happened during the commission of a crime. Look at the FBI crime statistics: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

These charts combine white with Hispanic; if you (roughly) disaggregate that you'll find that the total number of crimes committed by whites is roughly twice that of blacks (~3 times on a per capital basis). In the more violent crimes like aggravated assault it's closer to even, and in murders blacks actually commit more. This lines up with the shooting data.

If you're really bothered by crime/shooting data not matching up with percentages of the population I suggest you look into gender disparities in arrests and shootings. Men are far more likely to be arrested and shot even though they're half of the population. Must be bias. Don't even get me started on Asians!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Omg omg the sky is falling!

Glad to see you're part of the solution, MCPS official (or maybe you're a realtor)? Anyone who works for, sends kids to, or lives in a house zoned for an MCPS school should be interested in improving the school system. This comment is just plain dismissive and dumb.

Program is improving the school system

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was posted in the comments for OP's article:

For example, let's look at the weekly crime summary, which MCPD publishes on their website. The most recent is the report published on 2/18. It shows crimes, and if the suspect was not located, then a description of the suspect. I counted them up in cases where the race was listed:

13 black males, one Indian male. No white males. No Hispanic males. No women.

Now, I suppose one explanation is the witnesses and victims were misidentifying the race of the suspects, and the suspect was actually of a different race. But these are crimes all around the county, with different victims each time. I doubt they're all getting it wrong.

Maybe this was an anomaly. Let's look at the previous report, published on 2/6/20:
8 black males. No white males. No hispanic males. There was one woman of unknown race.

So, based on crime statistics, if there's a correlation between people who do bad things after graduating, and people who do bad things while still in school, then perhaps the numbers of black males suspended is actually disproportionately low?


I looked it up, and the data they refer to is here:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/crime/summaries.html

Or cops let white guys and crying women off with a warning

And teachers treat black males so badly they drop out and sell pot to make money ... the same pot white men sell legally.

But crime summaries are based on victims reporting a crime, and the report by the victim or witnesses about the suspect. It's not arrests (where police could be subjective), just crime reports by victims.

No it’s not but are you trying to argue that Becky is less biased then a cop? you really need to educate yourself on the criminal justice system

"The Bureau of Justice Statistics' (BJS) National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) is the nation's primary source of information on criminal victimization. Each year, data are obtained from a nationally representative sample of about 240,000 interviews on criminal victimization, involving 160,000 unique persons in about 95,000 households. Persons are interviewed on the frequency, characteristics, and consequences of criminal victimization in the United States. The NCVS collects information on nonfatal personal crimes (i.e., rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated and simple assault, and personal larceny) and household property crimes (i.e., burglary/trespassing, motor-vehicle theft, and other theft) both reported and not reported to police. Survey respondents provide information about themselves (e.g., age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, marital status, education level, and income) and whether they experienced a victimization. For each victimization incident, the NCVS collects information about the offender (e.g., age, race and Hispanic origin, sex, and victim-offender relationship), characteristics of the crime (e.g., time and place of occurrence, use of weapons, nature of injury, and economic consequences), whether the crime was reported to police, reasons the crime was or was not reported, and victim experiences with the criminal justice system."

They interview the people who experienced crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So now we will remove the 2.0 GPA requirement for sports because it isn't fair to minorities and we will purposely decrease suspensions too.

Seems right. Seems safe.

How do these teachers do it? No thanks. Even a 6 figure salary is not enough to keep the best in it when you have these kind of stipulations.

We already have criminal elements in sports. Remember the Damascus HS broom rapists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This was posted in the comments for OP's article:

For example, let's look at the weekly crime summary, which MCPD publishes on their website. The most recent is the report published on 2/18. It shows crimes, and if the suspect was not located, then a description of the suspect. I counted them up in cases where the race was listed:

13 black males, one Indian male. No white males. No Hispanic males. No women.

Now, I suppose one explanation is the witnesses and victims were misidentifying the race of the suspects, and the suspect was actually of a different race. But these are crimes all around the county, with different victims each time. I doubt they're all getting it wrong.

Maybe this was an anomaly. Let's look at the previous report, published on 2/6/20:
8 black males. No white males. No hispanic males. There was one woman of unknown race.

So, based on crime statistics, if there's a correlation between people who do bad things after graduating, and people who do bad things while still in school, then perhaps the numbers of black males suspended is actually disproportionately low?


I looked it up, and the data they refer to is here:
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/crime/summaries.html

Or cops let white guys and crying women off with a warning

And teachers treat black males so badly they drop out and sell pot to make money ... the same pot white men sell legally.

But crime summaries are based on victims reporting a crime, and the report by the victim or witnesses about the suspect. It's not arrests (where police could be subjective), just crime reports by victims.

The FBI victimization report (summary of race of offending by victim reporting) and the actual percentages of each race arrested and prosecuted for crimes match up almost exactly. The people committing the crimes are the people being arrested. If you look at the Washington Posts database on police shootings, blacks make up 25%, whites more than 50%, even though blacks commit close to 50% of all violent crime. In addition, in 2019 19 unarmed whites were shot by police compared to 9 blacks. These facts are in direct opposition to the reporting from the media.

Except there are six times as many whites as blacks in this country, not twice as many.

I suppose you think police just randomly shoot people. Almost all of these shootings happened during the commission of a crime. Look at the FBI crime statistics: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

These charts combine white with Hispanic; if you (roughly) disaggregate that you'll find that the total number of crimes committed by whites is roughly twice that of blacks (~3 times on a per capital basis). In the more violent crimes like aggravated assault it's closer to even, and in murders blacks actually commit more. This lines up with the shooting data.

If you're really bothered by crime/shooting data not matching up with percentages of the population I suggest you look into gender disparities in arrests and shootings. Men are far more likely to be arrested and shot even though they're half of the population. Must be bias. Don't even get me started on Asians!

Google stop and frisk if you really want to learn something about the subject. Also do you know how many Asians are trafficking women? Next time you go get your toes did just realize that the woman doing your toes was probably trafficked. You should actually be asking why aren’t more Asian shots when they commit an immense amount of crimes. Who do you think brought fentanyl to the United States?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So now we will remove the 2.0 GPA requirement for sports because it isn't fair to minorities and we will purposely decrease suspensions too.

Seems right. Seems safe.

How do these teachers do it? No thanks. Even a 6 figure salary is not enough to keep the best in it when you have these kind of stipulations.

We already have criminal elements in sports. Remember the Damascus HS broom rapists?

We have more criminals not playing sports

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

I think the issue that a lot of people are having is that MCPS is saying that because the data shows more students of color being disciplined, that then means that students of color are being disproportionately disciplined. That's a logical conclusion for which we don't seem to have any data. Perhaps the disparity is because of unconscious bias. Perhaps it's because students of color are misbehaving more in class. Perhaps it's a combination of both. To my knowledge, we don't have any data being presented to tell us.

It bothers people when MCPS draws conclusions like this with an obvious flaw in the logic, because it suggests that they don't give a damn about the empirical evidence, and are instead on an ideological crusade, data be damned.

I say this all as someone very receptive the unconscious bias concept. But even as a supporter, it frustrates me to see an organization acting based on insufficient data. All that does is annoy people on the other side of the issue - and rightfully so.

MCPS won't give the data because it will look bad, but it's unquestionably true that blacks and hispanics cause a lot more disruption on average then the rest. You are right that there is some unconscious bias as well; after teachers are repeatedly and daily subjected to abuse from students, will they not develop some bias at some point whether they want to or not? Of course they will, and they should not be blamed here because they are heroes to be able to still go in there and teach despite disrespect on a daily basis. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Teachers need to slowly take back their schools from the grips of bureaucratic and corrupt administration. Teachers need to have the autonomy to impose order in their classroom and kick kids out when they're shouting, yelling, or doing worse things. The administration's job is support the teachers by letting them teach, and the admin's job is to handle the kids who can't remain in class. It is clear that the admin's excuse is to point fingers at the teachers instead of owning up to doing their own job. The primary responsibility of DISCIPLINE falls on the principals and admins, NOT on the teachers.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

I think the issue that a lot of people are having is that MCPS is saying that because the data shows more students of color being disciplined, that then means that students of color are being disproportionately disciplined. That's a logical conclusion for which we don't seem to have any data. Perhaps the disparity is because of unconscious bias. Perhaps it's because students of color are misbehaving more in class. Perhaps it's a combination of both. To my knowledge, we don't have any data being presented to tell us.

It bothers people when MCPS draws conclusions like this with an obvious flaw in the logic, because it suggests that they don't give a damn about the empirical evidence, and are instead on an ideological crusade, data be damned.

I say this all as someone very receptive the unconscious bias concept. But even as a supporter, it frustrates me to see an organization acting based on insufficient data. All that does is annoy people on the other side of the issue - and rightfully so.

MCPS won't give the data because it will look bad, but it's unquestionably true that blacks and hispanics cause a lot more disruption on average then the rest. You are right that there is some unconscious bias as well; after teachers are repeatedly and daily subjected to abuse from students, will they not develop some bias at some point whether they want to or not? Of course they will, and they should not be blamed here because they are heroes to be able to still go in there and teach despite disrespect on a daily basis. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Teachers need to slowly take back their schools from the grips of bureaucratic and corrupt administration. Teachers need to have the autonomy to impose order in their classroom and kick kids out when they're shouting, yelling, or doing worse things. The administration's job is support the teachers by letting them teach, and the admin's job is to handle the kids who can't remain in class. It is clear that the admin's excuse is to point fingers at the teachers instead of owning up to doing their own job. The primary responsibility of DISCIPLINE falls on the principals and admins, NOT on the teachers.

+1

-1000

It's just like saying more boys are a problem because they wiggle in their seats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's just like saying more boys are a problem because they wiggle in their seats.

The fact that you think that this is about punishment for kids wiggling in their seats just shows that you are completely out of touch.

Nobody dealing with these situations in the classroom on a daily basis has the luxury of weighing in from your ivory tower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just like saying more boys are a problem because they wiggle in their seats.

The fact that you think that this is about punishment for kids wiggling in their seats just shows that you are completely out of touch.

Nobody dealing with these situations in the classroom on a daily basis has the luxury of weighing in from your ivory tower.

It's all gone downhill since they've been unable to dispense corporal punishment. Schools were so much better in the days of the lash and cane!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get why people are upset about bad behavior in the schools - I'm not denying it's there and it sucks for kids who behave - but what I don't get is the race to tear down efforts by MCPS to try to rectify the situation where kids of color are disproportionately disciplined for that behavior.

I think the issue that a lot of people are having is that MCPS is saying that because the data shows more students of color being disciplined, that then means that students of color are being disproportionately disciplined. That's a logical conclusion for which we don't seem to have any data. Perhaps the disparity is because of unconscious bias. Perhaps it's because students of color are misbehaving more in class. Perhaps it's a combination of both. To my knowledge, we don't have any data being presented to tell us.

It bothers people when MCPS draws conclusions like this with an obvious flaw in the logic, because it suggests that they don't give a damn about the empirical evidence, and are instead on an ideological crusade, data be damned.

I say this all as someone very receptive the unconscious bias concept. But even as a supporter, it frustrates me to see an organization acting based on insufficient data. All that does is annoy people on the other side of the issue - and rightfully so.

MCPS won't give the data because it will look bad, but it's unquestionably true that blacks and hispanics cause a lot more disruption on average then the rest. You are right that there is some unconscious bias as well; after teachers are repeatedly and daily subjected to abuse from students, will they not develop some bias at some point whether they want to or not? Of course they will, and they should not be blamed here because they are heroes to be able to still go in there and teach despite disrespect on a daily basis. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Teachers need to slowly take back their schools from the grips of bureaucratic and corrupt administration. Teachers need to have the autonomy to impose order in their classroom and kick kids out when they're shouting, yelling, or doing worse things. The administration's job is support the teachers by letting them teach, and the admin's job is to handle the kids who can't remain in class. It is clear that the admin's excuse is to point fingers at the teachers instead of owning up to doing their own job. The primary responsibility of DISCIPLINE falls on the principals and admins, NOT on the teachers.

+1

-1000

It's just like saying more boys are a problem because they wiggle in their seats.

Get off the thread troll. Clearly you're not a teacher and have not read all the teacher descriptions of the extreme discipline issues in many classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's just like saying more boys are a problem because they wiggle in their seats.

The fact that you think that this is about punishment for kids wiggling in their seats just shows that you are completely out of touch.

Nobody dealing with these situations in the classroom on a daily basis has the luxury of weighing in from your ivory tower.

It's all gone downhill since they've been unable to dispense corporal punishment. Schools were so much better in the days of the lash and cane!

Whatever, troll.