The crisis coming that is taboo to talk about

[Anonymous]

There is something called neuroplasticity and I think it is important to exercise our brains all the time. Keep the synapses firing and connecting even in old age. I had a talk with my mom about this just the other day. My dad suffered from vascular dementia, and mom is very overweight and not very active at all. She doesn't read of write much at all. I told her she needs to keep active, go to the book club, etc.. She replied that surely it is enough for her and her brain doesn't need anything and can rest. What I saw was in my head a 100kg woman that will have dementia and all that it involves, loss of movement, bowel, etc... I hope I am wrong. I am in grad school and almost 50, trying my best to keep my brain working. And to heat healthily, but who knows, luck of the draw sometimes, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELpfYCZa87g

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently caring for my elderly inlaws. It's been about 5 years since caring for my parents...which was all consuming while we were still working but had just become empty nesters. They passed away.

Now we just retired and we are involved in a huge tsunami of issues my inlaws just got...much of it self induced because of denial.
You would not believe our friends' comments:
"This is your retirement. You shouldnt be doing that."
" They created their own problems- don't enable them by going over there."
" Let him take an Uber to the radiology appt for chemo- it's not your job."
" You can never come out- what a shame they did this to you."
" Why can't your brother take off from work? Too bad!"

Their parents have died over the years. There's a sentiment of feeling "lucky" if parents have already passed that I seem to feel in many social circles.

We are becoming an entitled society. No empathy. Other people are throw aways. They shouldn't be interfering in our lives, as we deserve to live ours in freedom....that is what the message is.

I do not love my inlaws. They are super PITA to unbelievable degrees. I still do not feel that it is my right to not help them, and I am very saddened by those who do. Who will help us in 25 years?

I have watched many a relative become quite ill while being the chosen one for doing the most caregiving and receiving the most horrible behavior from their elderly parents. I have known quite a few people who received their cancer diagnosis within a year of being done caregiving for an elderly parent who was difficult. I think everyone has to find the right balance. As I have seen with my own caregiving empathy often leaves/detriorates as the brain ages and the parents will suck you dry emotionally and physically if you let them. It was a lot easier to do more for the parent who was pleasant. For the difficult parent it can leave an emotional hangover and physical symptoms. I think each person has to find what they can handle and part of that is dependent on the personality they are working with. Those who judge anyone doing caregiving should think twice.

You've got to take care of you first. Think of everyone that is relying on you. Think of the ones who will be impacted if you get sick.

You need to exercise, eat right and do fun things. The more positive energy you have, the more energy you have to share with others.

If that means an unreasonable older person is disappointed or cranky, oh well. Yes, you love your parents and you want to spend time with them and you are happy to help them out within reason. But martyring yourself and sacrificing your own health, well being and happiness is not good. Do what you can. if something doesn't get done perfectly it is not the end of the world. Be kind to yourself.

Sure. But- we don't get a pass because it id unpleasant. People who are aged and sick aren't generally going to be pleasant. And, yes, it is a responsibility that people have to undertake. It is not in incumbent upon retiring that we sail off into the sunset with a daiquiri.

I think that you can (and should!) have days when you sail off into the sun with daiquiri, other days when you ride herd on teenagers, other days when you take care of projects around your own home and still other days when you drop by and visit an older relative, maybe take them grocery shopping and out to lunch.

This idea that you have to constantly be back and forth to their house tending their yard, cleaning their yard, driving them around is just not sustainable. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time doing that then it is time for them to downsize.

Oh, you think it is about a house? No.

Subtle renal failure signs, diabetes, blood draws, nutrition, dr appts, transport, insurance paperwork, referrals, overnights in ICU, hospitals, medical supplies, coordination of nurses and staff, rehab facility liasion, nursing home liasion for one parent, bringing the other parent to see the parent in facility, feeding the pets, diapering an incontinent parent who doesn't think he's incontinent, apologizing to nurses who were yelled at, asking for repeated clarifications of what "red blood in pee or poop" means, making sure they eat, making sure the dr talks to you and gives info, clarifying to dr what the REAL story is after your parent tells them complete bullshit, taking the car keys away, taking your phone into the barhroom, bed, garden, and dog walks so you miss nothing, bluetooth in car, never making any plans beyond one day, getting the right prescription from CVS, refills on time, organizing their bills and paying them, doing their taxes, scheduling new financing for nursing care, laundry, wiping their tears, calming their fits of anger, unclogging toilets after shit bombs, explaining repeatedly what can be put down in a toilet, being glad most of the shit made it into the toilet, dealing with calls from friends and neighbors who want to "help" with cake, insulin and blood pressure checks that go to dr for review each day, hoping the nurse is on time, getting the internet connection back on for TV, arguing with sibling about firing nurses at home because they are too expensive and don't "do that much", getting calls at 3 am, calling the EMT several times a month.

Downsizing? You think this is about downsizing? Wrong thread, dear.

And no, we don't get a pass because it is too hard. This is life, obligation, and responsibility...it is not fun. Sorry.

Someone who needs this level of care should be in a nursing home.

Yes, you have responsibilities, but you are choosing a pretty high threshold of martyrdom for yourself.

[Anonymous]

I think as a society we need to do a better job acknowledging the realities of old age and educating people about them...similar to increasing emphasis on teaching parents about early childhood development.

DH and I are just starting on the end-of-life caregiving duties. FIL is clearly showing early signs of dementia, and, he being ornery to begin with, no one in DH's family seems to know what to do. I'm no expert, but MIL's reaction (to constantly grill him about every odd thing he says or thing he forgets in the hopes of getting him to acknowledge his dementia) seems particularly unhelpful. But, while this is the beginning of a long, and likely difficult, journey for us...I told DH that it's not like we are the first people to experience this. There is a lot of information about dementia and strategies for dealing with its onset. Just like classes on breastfeeding didn't make me any less sleep-deprived, this information isn't going to erase the challenges...but knowing what's expected and getting a jumpstart on developing strategies for dealing *is* helpful for reducing our own stress and anxiety levels.

[Anonymous]

I think my parents' generation are crazy in their determination to "age in place." At the first sign of cognitive decline, I want to be moved to a caring community of other olds and a bunch of caregivers with reasonable hours and wages and each other to lean on. I know a lot of homes are very bad - but that's partly because all the rich people are at home alone with their aide and their suffering children.

Give me a nice sunny day room with some activities and periodic entertainment and visits from therapy dogs. I don't want to be alone in my house with my child or a health aide who is suffering alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently caring for my elderly inlaws. It's been about 5 years since caring for my parents...which was all consuming while we were still working but had just become empty nesters. They passed away.

Now we just retired and we are involved in a huge tsunami of issues my inlaws just got...much of it self induced because of denial.
You would not believe our friends' comments:
"This is your retirement. You shouldnt be doing that."
" They created their own problems- don't enable them by going over there."
" Let him take an Uber to the radiology appt for chemo- it's not your job."
" You can never come out- what a shame they did this to you."
" Why can't your brother take off from work? Too bad!"

Their parents have died over the years. There's a sentiment of feeling "lucky" if parents have already passed that I seem to feel in many social circles.

We are becoming an entitled society. No empathy. Other people are throw aways. They shouldn't be interfering in our lives, as we deserve to live ours in freedom....that is what the message is.

I do not love my inlaws. They are super PITA to unbelievable degrees. I still do not feel that it is my right to not help them, and I am very saddened by those who do. Who will help us in 25 years?

I have watched many a relative become quite ill while being the chosen one for doing the most caregiving and receiving the most horrible behavior from their elderly parents. I have known quite a few people who received their cancer diagnosis within a year of being done caregiving for an elderly parent who was difficult. I think everyone has to find the right balance. As I have seen with my own caregiving empathy often leaves/detriorates as the brain ages and the parents will suck you dry emotionally and physically if you let them. It was a lot easier to do more for the parent who was pleasant. For the difficult parent it can leave an emotional hangover and physical symptoms. I think each person has to find what they can handle and part of that is dependent on the personality they are working with. Those who judge anyone doing caregiving should think twice.

You've got to take care of you first. Think of everyone that is relying on you. Think of the ones who will be impacted if you get sick.

You need to exercise, eat right and do fun things. The more positive energy you have, the more energy you have to share with others.

If that means an unreasonable older person is disappointed or cranky, oh well. Yes, you love your parents and you want to spend time with them and you are happy to help them out within reason. But martyring yourself and sacrificing your own health, well being and happiness is not good. Do what you can. if something doesn't get done perfectly it is not the end of the world. Be kind to yourself.

Sure. But- we don't get a pass because it id unpleasant. People who are aged and sick aren't generally going to be pleasant. And, yes, it is a responsibility that people have to undertake. It is not in incumbent upon retiring that we sail off into the sunset with a daiquiri.

I think that you can (and should!) have days when you sail off into the sun with daiquiri, other days when you ride herd on teenagers, other days when you take care of projects around your own home and still other days when you drop by and visit an older relative, maybe take them grocery shopping and out to lunch.

This idea that you have to constantly be back and forth to their house tending their yard, cleaning their yard, driving them around is just not sustainable. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time doing that then it is time for them to downsize.

Oh, you think it is about a house? No.

Subtle renal failure signs, diabetes, blood draws, nutrition, dr appts, transport, insurance paperwork, referrals, overnights in ICU, hospitals, medical supplies, coordination of nurses and staff, rehab facility liasion, nursing home liasion for one parent, bringing the other parent to see the parent in facility, feeding the pets, diapering an incontinent parent who doesn't think he's incontinent, apologizing to nurses who were yelled at, asking for repeated clarifications of what "red blood in pee or poop" means, making sure they eat, making sure the dr talks to you and gives info, clarifying to dr what the REAL story is after your parent tells them complete bullshit, taking the car keys away, taking your phone into the barhroom, bed, garden, and dog walks so you miss nothing, bluetooth in car, never making any plans beyond one day, getting the right prescription from CVS, refills on time, organizing their bills and paying them, doing their taxes, scheduling new financing for nursing care, laundry, wiping their tears, calming their fits of anger, unclogging toilets after shit bombs, explaining repeatedly what can be put down in a toilet, being glad most of the shit made it into the toilet, dealing with calls from friends and neighbors who want to "help" with cake, insulin and blood pressure checks that go to dr for review each day, hoping the nurse is on time, getting the internet connection back on for TV, arguing with sibling about firing nurses at home because they are too expensive and don't "do that much", getting calls at 3 am, calling the EMT several times a month.

Downsizing? You think this is about downsizing? Wrong thread, dear.

And no, we don't get a pass because it is too hard. This is life, obligation, and responsibility...it is not fun. Sorry.

O.k. If you broke your leg tomorrow who would do all of this? What would happen to your parents? Serious question.

Siblings would have to take FEMLA and move here. Neither can actually do that because they need their paycheck and in each case are the health insurance providers for their family, but, yes.

I did it, for my parents ( now it is inlaws) while I was working, but because I couldn't do it all, there were some things that went south very quickly. I was lucky in some ways with the nurses I had, but it is a crap shoot.
That's the point of this thread. This is a crisis.

Older people are making very poor plans, not that it solves everything, but there are some safeguards. You can't plan illness, cancer, Parkinsons, stroke, but one can plan housing arrangements and leveled care. Many refuse. So if they do, do we refuse to do these things that surface in this critical time? I am not sure what choices there are. If we get a call that Dad fell off his bed and has a head gash at 2 am, do we say " Well, call Pete. I am sleeping."

Also, some do not have the funds. ...continual care communities are not cheap. That being said, there's a lot on this list that would still be there as responsibilities.

Who is calling you to report that your dad has fallen out of his bed? Is he in assisted living or a nursing home where he's getting round the clock care? If not he should be.

You didn't read the account above carefully. One parent is in full care, but the spouse is not at that level, yet does receive nursing care at home. And...neither has Alzheimers or dementia. There isn't a clear trajectory from illness and some frailty to a full care nursing home, or even an assisted living. There is so much that people don't fully understand about aging. It's not black and white with clear boundaries of need. It's a spectrum of need. It is not consistent and it is not linear. It is not predictable. It is not able to be fully planned for. It is also crazy expensive in time, resources, money, and patience.

If you are changing your dad's diapers it's time for him to go into assisted living. He is requiring more care than a normal independent person needs. I am very sorry you are dealing with that but I also think that what you are dealing with is more than one person can reasonably be expected to handle.

Agree if you are changing your dad's diapers it's time for assisted living. The thing with some elderly parents is that they become so overly demanding. My in-laws are now becoming extremely demanding of my husband and I can only see it getting worse. I have told him to pace himself because he will get wiped out. The demands don't stop. He will get sick himself falling over himself running left, right and centre to fix absolutely everything. My MIL has said she doesn't want to be wiped out by FIL so she passes everything on to my husband. She is able bodied but useless and finds it tiring looking after FIL so my husband is left organising everything for her and FIL with no help from his sibling. Unfortunately yes you do get to the stage where you wonder when they will die.

There does need to be a balance.

ONG I so relate to this. They do become REALLY demanding and NOTHING is enough. Your husband needs to set boundaries and a therapist can help. Your MIL has to suck it up. My mother tried to claim I should do all the work because dad was my blood relative and she was not related to him by blood?

None if you get it. You will, though, if it happens in your family. There are no "boundaries." No, MIL doesn't have to " suck it up." No one is manipulating anyone. Everyone cannot be in a home. There has to be money for this. Even before Medicaid could kick in, assets have to be spent down. It is pretty complicated. And here's a news flash. Random or even full incontinence is not criteria for a nursing home or even assisted living. Good grief...get real. You do see all the Depends products in stores, right?

These people are in their 90s, and extremely fraile.. and this isn't even dementia. It's no one's right to not have to take care of parents. We are not deserving of anything just because we don't enjoy it. It's a reality. This entire thread is about the reality of what can and will happen. Get ready....because you might have to suck it up.

If you are to the point where you can not change your own adult diaper then you need to be in assisted living. Period. End of story.

No, I would never in a million years expect my adult children to care for me like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think my parents' generation are crazy in their determination to "age in place." At the first sign of cognitive decline, I want to be moved to a caring community of other olds and a bunch of caregivers with reasonable hours and wages and each other to lean on. I know a lot of homes are very bad - but that's partly because all the rich people are at home alone with their aide and their suffering children.

Give me a nice sunny day room with some activities and periodic entertainment and visits from therapy dogs. I don't want to be alone in my house with my child or a health aide who is suffering alone.

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my parents' generation are crazy in their determination to "age in place." At the first sign of cognitive decline, I want to be moved to a caring community of other olds and a bunch of caregivers with reasonable hours and wages and each other to lean on. I know a lot of homes are very bad - but that's partly because all the rich people are at home alone with their aide and their suffering children.

Give me a nice sunny day room with some activities and periodic entertainment and visits from therapy dogs. I don't want to be alone in my house with my child or a health aide who is suffering alone.

+1,000,000

THIS. I predict the whole "age in place" movement is going to kill off a bunch of adult children who live near Mr and Mrs age in place. Even with supports and making changes in the home, I still think these people are better off in a facility where there are social activities and people trained to deal with them. Instead too often they become verbally abusive with the closest adult child, the demands are endless and any attempts to set boundaries are met with temper tantrums. I will never do this to my children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently caring for my elderly inlaws. It's been about 5 years since caring for my parents...which was all consuming while we were still working but had just become empty nesters. They passed away.

Now we just retired and we are involved in a huge tsunami of issues my inlaws just got...much of it self induced because of denial.
You would not believe our friends' comments:
"This is your retirement. You shouldnt be doing that."
" They created their own problems- don't enable them by going over there."
" Let him take an Uber to the radiology appt for chemo- it's not your job."
" You can never come out- what a shame they did this to you."
" Why can't your brother take off from work? Too bad!"

Their parents have died over the years. There's a sentiment of feeling "lucky" if parents have already passed that I seem to feel in many social circles.

We are becoming an entitled society. No empathy. Other people are throw aways. They shouldn't be interfering in our lives, as we deserve to live ours in freedom....that is what the message is.

I do not love my inlaws. They are super PITA to unbelievable degrees. I still do not feel that it is my right to not help them, and I am very saddened by those who do. Who will help us in 25 years?

I have watched many a relative become quite ill while being the chosen one for doing the most caregiving and receiving the most horrible behavior from their elderly parents. I have known quite a few people who received their cancer diagnosis within a year of being done caregiving for an elderly parent who was difficult. I think everyone has to find the right balance. As I have seen with my own caregiving empathy often leaves/detriorates as the brain ages and the parents will suck you dry emotionally and physically if you let them. It was a lot easier to do more for the parent who was pleasant. For the difficult parent it can leave an emotional hangover and physical symptoms. I think each person has to find what they can handle and part of that is dependent on the personality they are working with. Those who judge anyone doing caregiving should think twice.

You've got to take care of you first. Think of everyone that is relying on you. Think of the ones who will be impacted if you get sick.

You need to exercise, eat right and do fun things. The more positive energy you have, the more energy you have to share with others.

If that means an unreasonable older person is disappointed or cranky, oh well. Yes, you love your parents and you want to spend time with them and you are happy to help them out within reason. But martyring yourself and sacrificing your own health, well being and happiness is not good. Do what you can. if something doesn't get done perfectly it is not the end of the world. Be kind to yourself.

Sure. But- we don't get a pass because it id unpleasant. People who are aged and sick aren't generally going to be pleasant. And, yes, it is a responsibility that people have to undertake. It is not in incumbent upon retiring that we sail off into the sunset with a daiquiri.

I think that you can (and should!) have days when you sail off into the sun with daiquiri, other days when you ride herd on teenagers, other days when you take care of projects around your own home and still other days when you drop by and visit an older relative, maybe take them grocery shopping and out to lunch.

This idea that you have to constantly be back and forth to their house tending their yard, cleaning their yard, driving them around is just not sustainable. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time doing that then it is time for them to downsize.

Oh, you think it is about a house? No.

Subtle renal failure signs, diabetes, blood draws, nutrition, dr appts, transport, insurance paperwork, referrals, overnights in ICU, hospitals, medical supplies, coordination of nurses and staff, rehab facility liasion, nursing home liasion for one parent, bringing the other parent to see the parent in facility, feeding the pets, diapering an incontinent parent who doesn't think he's incontinent, apologizing to nurses who were yelled at, asking for repeated clarifications of what "red blood in pee or poop" means, making sure they eat, making sure the dr talks to you and gives info, clarifying to dr what the REAL story is after your parent tells them complete bullshit, taking the car keys away, taking your phone into the barhroom, bed, garden, and dog walks so you miss nothing, bluetooth in car, never making any plans beyond one day, getting the right prescription from CVS, refills on time, organizing their bills and paying them, doing their taxes, scheduling new financing for nursing care, laundry, wiping their tears, calming their fits of anger, unclogging toilets after shit bombs, explaining repeatedly what can be put down in a toilet, being glad most of the shit made it into the toilet, dealing with calls from friends and neighbors who want to "help" with cake, insulin and blood pressure checks that go to dr for review each day, hoping the nurse is on time, getting the internet connection back on for TV, arguing with sibling about firing nurses at home because they are too expensive and don't "do that much", getting calls at 3 am, calling the EMT several times a month.

Downsizing? You think this is about downsizing? Wrong thread, dear.

And no, we don't get a pass because it is too hard. This is life, obligation, and responsibility...it is not fun. Sorry.

Someone who needs this level of care should be in a nursing home.

Yes, you have responsibilities, but you are choosing a pretty high threshold of martyrdom for yourself.

Again. And I will be completely clear. You cannot "place" people in a home. You have zero control. If they do not have dementia, no one can make them do anything. They have to qualify for assisted living. They have to have money to be in assisted care or skilled care. Skilked care is 13 k to 15 k a month. Assisted care is about half that.

Refusing to accept a lot
of accidents as incontinence is not lacking the ability to change a diaper. Refusing medical care is not dementia. Not cleaning the house or themselves carefully is not either. Falling due to whatever reason doesn't mean they are incapable of being without a nurse. It seems people are reading what they want to read. No one is a martyr...it is called a crisis for a reason. Old age isn't binary nor is it linear. There isn't full care in a nursing home vs. help in general. Elder failing is a slow, insipid process with answers that are not readily available for those who just find it difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently caring for my elderly inlaws. It's been about 5 years since caring for my parents...which was all consuming while we were still working but had just become empty nesters. They passed away.

Now we just retired and we are involved in a huge tsunami of issues my inlaws just got...much of it self induced because of denial.
You would not believe our friends' comments:
"This is your retirement. You shouldnt be doing that."
" They created their own problems- don't enable them by going over there."
" Let him take an Uber to the radiology appt for chemo- it's not your job."
" You can never come out- what a shame they did this to you."
" Why can't your brother take off from work? Too bad!"

Their parents have died over the years. There's a sentiment of feeling "lucky" if parents have already passed that I seem to feel in many social circles.

We are becoming an entitled society. No empathy. Other people are throw aways. They shouldn't be interfering in our lives, as we deserve to live ours in freedom....that is what the message is.

I do not love my inlaws. They are super PITA to unbelievable degrees. I still do not feel that it is my right to not help them, and I am very saddened by those who do. Who will help us in 25 years?

I have watched many a relative become quite ill while being the chosen one for doing the most caregiving and receiving the most horrible behavior from their elderly parents. I have known quite a few people who received their cancer diagnosis within a year of being done caregiving for an elderly parent who was difficult. I think everyone has to find the right balance. As I have seen with my own caregiving empathy often leaves/detriorates as the brain ages and the parents will suck you dry emotionally and physically if you let them. It was a lot easier to do more for the parent who was pleasant. For the difficult parent it can leave an emotional hangover and physical symptoms. I think each person has to find what they can handle and part of that is dependent on the personality they are working with. Those who judge anyone doing caregiving should think twice.

You've got to take care of you first. Think of everyone that is relying on you. Think of the ones who will be impacted if you get sick.

You need to exercise, eat right and do fun things. The more positive energy you have, the more energy you have to share with others.

If that means an unreasonable older person is disappointed or cranky, oh well. Yes, you love your parents and you want to spend time with them and you are happy to help them out within reason. But martyring yourself and sacrificing your own health, well being and happiness is not good. Do what you can. if something doesn't get done perfectly it is not the end of the world. Be kind to yourself.

Sure. But- we don't get a pass because it id unpleasant. People who are aged and sick aren't generally going to be pleasant. And, yes, it is a responsibility that people have to undertake. It is not in incumbent upon retiring that we sail off into the sunset with a daiquiri.

I think that you can (and should!) have days when you sail off into the sun with daiquiri, other days when you ride herd on teenagers, other days when you take care of projects around your own home and still other days when you drop by and visit an older relative, maybe take them grocery shopping and out to lunch.

This idea that you have to constantly be back and forth to their house tending their yard, cleaning their yard, driving them around is just not sustainable. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time doing that then it is time for them to downsize.

Oh, you think it is about a house? No.

Subtle renal failure signs, diabetes, blood draws, nutrition, dr appts, transport, insurance paperwork, referrals, overnights in ICU, hospitals, medical supplies, coordination of nurses and staff, rehab facility liasion, nursing home liasion for one parent, bringing the other parent to see the parent in facility, feeding the pets, diapering an incontinent parent who doesn't think he's incontinent, apologizing to nurses who were yelled at, asking for repeated clarifications of what "red blood in pee or poop" means, making sure they eat, making sure the dr talks to you and gives info, clarifying to dr what the REAL story is after your parent tells them complete bullshit, taking the car keys away, taking your phone into the barhroom, bed, garden, and dog walks so you miss nothing, bluetooth in car, never making any plans beyond one day, getting the right prescription from CVS, refills on time, organizing their bills and paying them, doing their taxes, scheduling new financing for nursing care, laundry, wiping their tears, calming their fits of anger, unclogging toilets after shit bombs, explaining repeatedly what can be put down in a toilet, being glad most of the shit made it into the toilet, dealing with calls from friends and neighbors who want to "help" with cake, insulin and blood pressure checks that go to dr for review each day, hoping the nurse is on time, getting the internet connection back on for TV, arguing with sibling about firing nurses at home because they are too expensive and don't "do that much", getting calls at 3 am, calling the EMT several times a month.

Downsizing? You think this is about downsizing? Wrong thread, dear.

And no, we don't get a pass because it is too hard. This is life, obligation, and responsibility...it is not fun. Sorry.

Someone who needs this level of care should be in a nursing home.

Yes, you have responsibilities, but you are choosing a pretty high threshold of martyrdom for yourself.

Again. And I will be completely clear. You cannot "place" people in a home. You have zero control. If they do not have dementia, no one can make them do anything. They have to qualify for assisted living. They have to have money to be in assisted care or skilled care. Skilked care is 13 k to 15 k a month. Assisted care is about half that.

Refusing to accept a lot
of accidents as incontinence is not lacking the ability to change a diaper. Refusing medical care is not dementia. Not cleaning the house or themselves carefully is not either. Falling due to whatever reason doesn't mean they are incapable of being without a nurse. It seems people are reading what they want to read. No one is a martyr...it is called a crisis for a reason. Old age isn't binary nor is it linear. There isn't full care in a nursing home vs. help in general. Elder failing is a slow, insipid process with answers that are not readily available for those who just find it difficult.

The problem is that your parent is clearly failing (both mentally and physically) and you feel 100% responsible for enabling them to stay in a bad living situation. They aren't rationally choosing to piss and sh*t their own bed and furniture, not clean their home, keep their kitchen filthy, "forget" to take their medicine, etc. They need more help. They need assisted living.

No, you can't force them to go into a facility if they are still capable of making decisions for themselves. What you can do is refuse to swoop over there every time your parent has an explosive bowel movement all over their couch. It is not your "job" to clean that up. Your parent doesn't "get" that it isn't your job because you are not making it clear that it isn't your job.

Your parent wants to stay in their home because it is familiar, comfortable and safe territory to them. Totally understandable. Unfortunately, they are no longer capable of living independently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently caring for my elderly inlaws. It's been about 5 years since caring for my parents...which was all consuming while we were still working but had just become empty nesters. They passed away.

Now we just retired and we are involved in a huge tsunami of issues my inlaws just got...much of it self induced because of denial.
You would not believe our friends' comments:
"This is your retirement. You shouldnt be doing that."
" They created their own problems- don't enable them by going over there."
" Let him take an Uber to the radiology appt for chemo- it's not your job."
" You can never come out- what a shame they did this to you."
" Why can't your brother take off from work? Too bad!"

Their parents have died over the years. There's a sentiment of feeling "lucky" if parents have already passed that I seem to feel in many social circles.

We are becoming an entitled society. No empathy. Other people are throw aways. They shouldn't be interfering in our lives, as we deserve to live ours in freedom....that is what the message is.

I do not love my inlaws. They are super PITA to unbelievable degrees. I still do not feel that it is my right to not help them, and I am very saddened by those who do. Who will help us in 25 years?

I have watched many a relative become quite ill while being the chosen one for doing the most caregiving and receiving the most horrible behavior from their elderly parents. I have known quite a few people who received their cancer diagnosis within a year of being done caregiving for an elderly parent who was difficult. I think everyone has to find the right balance. As I have seen with my own caregiving empathy often leaves/detriorates as the brain ages and the parents will suck you dry emotionally and physically if you let them. It was a lot easier to do more for the parent who was pleasant. For the difficult parent it can leave an emotional hangover and physical symptoms. I think each person has to find what they can handle and part of that is dependent on the personality they are working with. Those who judge anyone doing caregiving should think twice.

You've got to take care of you first. Think of everyone that is relying on you. Think of the ones who will be impacted if you get sick.

You need to exercise, eat right and do fun things. The more positive energy you have, the more energy you have to share with others.

If that means an unreasonable older person is disappointed or cranky, oh well. Yes, you love your parents and you want to spend time with them and you are happy to help them out within reason. But martyring yourself and sacrificing your own health, well being and happiness is not good. Do what you can. if something doesn't get done perfectly it is not the end of the world. Be kind to yourself.

Sure. But- we don't get a pass because it id unpleasant. People who are aged and sick aren't generally going to be pleasant. And, yes, it is a responsibility that people have to undertake. It is not in incumbent upon retiring that we sail off into the sunset with a daiquiri.

I think that you can (and should!) have days when you sail off into the sun with daiquiri, other days when you ride herd on teenagers, other days when you take care of projects around your own home and still other days when you drop by and visit an older relative, maybe take them grocery shopping and out to lunch.

This idea that you have to constantly be back and forth to their house tending their yard, cleaning their yard, driving them around is just not sustainable. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time doing that then it is time for them to downsize.

Oh, you think it is about a house? No.

Subtle renal failure signs, diabetes, blood draws, nutrition, dr appts, transport, insurance paperwork, referrals, overnights in ICU, hospitals, medical supplies, coordination of nurses and staff, rehab facility liasion, nursing home liasion for one parent, bringing the other parent to see the parent in facility, feeding the pets, diapering an incontinent parent who doesn't think he's incontinent, apologizing to nurses who were yelled at, asking for repeated clarifications of what "red blood in pee or poop" means, making sure they eat, making sure the dr talks to you and gives info, clarifying to dr what the REAL story is after your parent tells them complete bullshit, taking the car keys away, taking your phone into the barhroom, bed, garden, and dog walks so you miss nothing, bluetooth in car, never making any plans beyond one day, getting the right prescription from CVS, refills on time, organizing their bills and paying them, doing their taxes, scheduling new financing for nursing care, laundry, wiping their tears, calming their fits of anger, unclogging toilets after shit bombs, explaining repeatedly what can be put down in a toilet, being glad most of the shit made it into the toilet, dealing with calls from friends and neighbors who want to "help" with cake, insulin and blood pressure checks that go to dr for review each day, hoping the nurse is on time, getting the internet connection back on for TV, arguing with sibling about firing nurses at home because they are too expensive and don't "do that much", getting calls at 3 am, calling the EMT several times a month.

Downsizing? You think this is about downsizing? Wrong thread, dear.

And no, we don't get a pass because it is too hard. This is life, obligation, and responsibility...it is not fun. Sorry.

Someone who needs this level of care should be in a nursing home.

Yes, you have responsibilities, but you are choosing a pretty high threshold of martyrdom for yourself.

Again. And I will be completely clear. You cannot "place" people in a home. You have zero control. If they do not have dementia, no one can make them do anything. They have to qualify for assisted living. They have to have money to be in assisted care or skilled care. Skilked care is 13 k to 15 k a month. Assisted care is about half that.

Refusing to accept a lot
of accidents as incontinence is not lacking the ability to change a diaper. Refusing medical care is not dementia. Not cleaning the house or themselves carefully is not either. Falling due to whatever reason doesn't mean they are incapable of being without a nurse. It seems people are reading what they want to read. No one is a martyr...it is called a crisis for a reason. Old age isn't binary nor is it linear. There isn't full care in a nursing home vs. help in general. Elder failing is a slow, insipid process with answers that are not readily available for those who just find it difficult.

The problem is that your parent is clearly failing (both mentally and physically) and you feel 100% responsible for enabling them to stay in a bad living situation. They aren't rationally choosing to piss and sh*t their own bed and furniture, not clean their home, keep their kitchen filthy, "forget" to take their medicine, etc. They need more help. They need assisted living.

No, you can't force them to go into a facility if they are still capable of making decisions for themselves. What you can do is refuse to swoop over there every time your parent has an explosive bowel movement all over their couch. It is not your "job" to clean that up. Your parent doesn't "get" that it isn't your job because you are not making it clear that it isn't your job.

Your parent wants to stay in their home because it is familiar, comfortable and safe territory to them. Totally understandable. Unfortunately, they are no longer capable of living independently.

Nope. And you really didn't read the text involved in this thread:
coordination of nurses and staff, rehab facility liasion, nursing home liasion for one parent, bringing the other parent to see the parent in facility,

You see, one is in a facility and there ARE nurses...and it's still hard. Please read carefully.

A word of advice: When it is on your shoulders you aren't going to be able to manage. Get it together, PP, because it's a ton more than you ever thought. Stop arguing and make plans for your family because it won't fit in your imagined box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are currently caring for my elderly inlaws. It's been about 5 years since caring for my parents...which was all consuming while we were still working but had just become empty nesters. They passed away.

Now we just retired and we are involved in a huge tsunami of issues my inlaws just got...much of it self induced because of denial.
You would not believe our friends' comments:
"This is your retirement. You shouldnt be doing that."
" They created their own problems- don't enable them by going over there."
" Let him take an Uber to the radiology appt for chemo- it's not your job."
" You can never come out- what a shame they did this to you."
" Why can't your brother take off from work? Too bad!"

Their parents have died over the years. There's a sentiment of feeling "lucky" if parents have already passed that I seem to feel in many social circles.

We are becoming an entitled society. No empathy. Other people are throw aways. They shouldn't be interfering in our lives, as we deserve to live ours in freedom....that is what the message is.

I do not love my inlaws. They are super PITA to unbelievable degrees. I still do not feel that it is my right to not help them, and I am very saddened by those who do. Who will help us in 25 years?

I have watched many a relative become quite ill while being the chosen one for doing the most caregiving and receiving the most horrible behavior from their elderly parents. I have known quite a few people who received their cancer diagnosis within a year of being done caregiving for an elderly parent who was difficult. I think everyone has to find the right balance. As I have seen with my own caregiving empathy often leaves/detriorates as the brain ages and the parents will suck you dry emotionally and physically if you let them. It was a lot easier to do more for the parent who was pleasant. For the difficult parent it can leave an emotional hangover and physical symptoms. I think each person has to find what they can handle and part of that is dependent on the personality they are working with. Those who judge anyone doing caregiving should think twice.

You've got to take care of you first. Think of everyone that is relying on you. Think of the ones who will be impacted if you get sick.

You need to exercise, eat right and do fun things. The more positive energy you have, the more energy you have to share with others.

If that means an unreasonable older person is disappointed or cranky, oh well. Yes, you love your parents and you want to spend time with them and you are happy to help them out within reason. But martyring yourself and sacrificing your own health, well being and happiness is not good. Do what you can. if something doesn't get done perfectly it is not the end of the world. Be kind to yourself.

Sure. But- we don't get a pass because it id unpleasant. People who are aged and sick aren't generally going to be pleasant. And, yes, it is a responsibility that people have to undertake. It is not in incumbent upon retiring that we sail off into the sunset with a daiquiri.

I think that you can (and should!) have days when you sail off into the sun with daiquiri, other days when you ride herd on teenagers, other days when you take care of projects around your own home and still other days when you drop by and visit an older relative, maybe take them grocery shopping and out to lunch.

This idea that you have to constantly be back and forth to their house tending their yard, cleaning their yard, driving them around is just not sustainable. If you are spending an inordinate amount of time doing that then it is time for them to downsize.

Oh, you think it is about a house? No.

Subtle renal failure signs, diabetes, blood draws, nutrition, dr appts, transport, insurance paperwork, referrals, overnights in ICU, hospitals, medical supplies, coordination of nurses and staff, rehab facility liasion, nursing home liasion for one parent, bringing the other parent to see the parent in facility, feeding the pets, diapering an incontinent parent who doesn't think he's incontinent, apologizing to nurses who were yelled at, asking for repeated clarifications of what "red blood in pee or poop" means, making sure they eat, making sure the dr talks to you and gives info, clarifying to dr what the REAL story is after your parent tells them complete bullshit, taking the car keys away, taking your phone into the barhroom, bed, garden, and dog walks so you miss nothing, bluetooth in car, never making any plans beyond one day, getting the right prescription from CVS, refills on time, organizing their bills and paying them, doing their taxes, scheduling new financing for nursing care, laundry, wiping their tears, calming their fits of anger, unclogging toilets after shit bombs, explaining repeatedly what can be put down in a toilet, being glad most of the shit made it into the toilet, dealing with calls from friends and neighbors who want to "help" with cake, insulin and blood pressure checks that go to dr for review each day, hoping the nurse is on time, getting the internet connection back on for TV, arguing with sibling about firing nurses at home because they are too expensive and don't "do that much", getting calls at 3 am, calling the EMT several times a month.

Downsizing? You think this is about downsizing? Wrong thread, dear.

And no, we don't get a pass because it is too hard. This is life, obligation, and responsibility...it is not fun. Sorry.

Someone who needs this level of care should be in a nursing home.

Yes, you have responsibilities, but you are choosing a pretty high threshold of martyrdom for yourself.

Again. And I will be completely clear. You cannot "place" people in a home. You have zero control. If they do not have dementia, no one can make them do anything. They have to qualify for assisted living. They have to have money to be in assisted care or skilled care. Skilked care is 13 k to 15 k a month. Assisted care is about half that.

Refusing to accept a lot
of accidents as incontinence is not lacking the ability to change a diaper. Refusing medical care is not dementia. Not cleaning the house or themselves carefully is not either. Falling due to whatever reason doesn't mean they are incapable of being without a nurse. It seems people are reading what they want to read. No one is a martyr...it is called a crisis for a reason. Old age isn't binary nor is it linear. There isn't full care in a nursing home vs. help in general. Elder failing is a slow, insipid process with answers that are not readily available for those who just find it difficult.

The problem is that your parent is clearly failing (both mentally and physically) and you feel 100% responsible for enabling them to stay in a bad living situation. They aren't rationally choosing to piss and sh*t their own bed and furniture, not clean their home, keep their kitchen filthy, "forget" to take their medicine, etc. They need more help. They need assisted living.

No, you can't force them to go into a facility if they are still capable of making decisions for themselves. What you can do is refuse to swoop over there every time your parent has an explosive bowel movement all over their couch. It is not your "job" to clean that up. Your parent doesn't "get" that it isn't your job because you are not making it clear that it isn't your job.

Your parent wants to stay in their home because it is familiar, comfortable and safe territory to them. Totally understandable. Unfortunately, they are no longer capable of living independently.

DP here. To the PP above, have you dealt with this personally? Or, are you thinking that this is would "should" happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my parents' generation are crazy in their determination to "age in place." At the first sign of cognitive decline, I want to be moved to a caring community of other olds and a bunch of caregivers with reasonable hours and wages and each other to lean on. I know a lot of homes are very bad - but that's partly because all the rich people are at home alone with their aide and their suffering children.

Give me a nice sunny day room with some activities and periodic entertainment and visits from therapy dogs. I don't want to be alone in my house with my child or a health aide who is suffering alone.

+1,000,000

THIS. I predict the whole "age in place" movement is going to kill off a bunch of adult children who live near Mr and Mrs age in place. Even with supports and making changes in the home, I still think these people are better off in a facility where there are social activities and people trained to deal with them. Instead too often they become verbally abusive with the closest adult child, the demands are endless and any attempts to set boundaries are met with temper tantrums. I will never do this to my children.

My grandmother lived with us as she aged, as in our culture placing someone in a retirement community/assisted living/nursing facility/anywhere other than the home of your child is considered terribly cruel and abandonment. We (my parents mostly) helped her, took care of her, cooked for her, drove her to dr appointments etc. But frankly she was miserable. We were all gone all day - work, school - and she was either alone or with a home health care provider she didn't care for (she didn't ever like any of them!) When everyone was home, we (the kids) irritated her - too noisy playing, TV on, our friends coming in and out - basically she wanted a home that was quiet the majority of the time and we got on her nerves. She and my mom argued constantly because she could no longer do things around the house herself and my mom's housekeeping could never live up to her standards. I think she may have been a bit happier having her own space, surrounded by people her own age and seeing us once or twice per week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think my parents' generation are crazy in their determination to "age in place." At the first sign of cognitive decline, I want to be moved to a caring community of other olds and a bunch of caregivers with reasonable hours and wages and each other to lean on. I know a lot of homes are very bad - but that's partly because all the rich people are at home alone with their aide and their suffering children.

Give me a nice sunny day room with some activities and periodic entertainment and visits from therapy dogs. I don't want to be alone in my house with my child or a health aide who is suffering alone.

Yes I wouldn't want to burden a child. I want to be around other old people going through the same thing with care givers paid to be there, educated in how to do the actual care. I want to be one of those old people shuffling through the shops on their weekly bus trip with all the other old people in the retirement home. At least they will understand when I need to go slow and seem silly.

[Anonymous]

Atul Gawande, Being Mortal, is a good book on this topic

[Anonymous]

After reading this thread, I realize I had no idea of what awaits me with aging parents.

So far, we have not had to deal with anything because DH and I are both 49 and our parents are in their late 70's and have had no health problems. They are very active, like to take international trips, work out at the gym, go on hikes and do gardening. They all do lots of volunteer work too.

My parents and in-laws have adequate financial resources, and are also very proud people. I don't anticipate them even wanting any help from us, but then again, after reading this thread, it sound like people change when they get older and demand things of their kids.

I like the idea about writing down our wishes now, and then testing our cognitive abilities as we age. I refuse to be a burden on my children. I'd rather have assisted suicide than be dependent on anyone. I just need to make sure I know when it's my time to go -- that the key.

After reading this thread, it's clear that it seems pretty traumatic to have elderly parents who need lots of care. I genuinely haven't had to deal with any of that yet. We love our parents and want to do whatever they need once they get into their 80's, but I so far cannot imagine them asking us for any help.