3 year old son constantly hurts little brother

[Anonymous]

This thread has to be a parody of wipipo discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I follow Janet Lansbury and I have a 3 yo and a baby. My 3 yo had a brief phase of trying to hurt the baby in various ways (biting was a favorite). I took away her favorite thing for increasing amounts of time. First offense, one day. Second offense, two days, etc. By four days without it and asking a million times every day and getting the same "unruffled" response she finally got it. She no longer hurts the baby.

If you're doing everything else (modeling, 1:1 attention, etc.) than I think you absolutely need to enforce some negative consequence. You need to protect the baby, that's the priority. I'd lose my mind if older DC nearly pushed younger DC down the stairs. That is not a time to worry about your reaction being a source of attention.

Can you please share some more info? This is helpful. My son just turned 3, so he’s young.

And I have lost my mind. I get so upset. It’s really scary and upsetting to see the baby getting so hurt for no reason.

But then, according to the books, but reactions are JUST want DS1 wants.

Stop. First of all, anyone can write a book. It's just someone's opinion. You need to take them with a big grain of salt and add a little bit of common sense.

NO. WHAT YOUR CHILD WANTS/NEEDS is limit setting. He's doing it because he's wondering what the limjt is. If I push, is that ok? If I shove, that's ok? What about if I push down the stairs? Children of this age NEED limits. Not beatings, not being sent to their room for a day or two, but limits. It helps them feel safe, that someone is setting limits because they don't yet have the self control not to do the things they think of. On some level, he knows there are limits - I mean, if he went at the baby with a knife, you'd grab it and say NO! because you wouldn't just ignore that, right? So he KNOWS there are limits and he's desperately trying to figure out what they are.

He starts to push (because you are right there, shadowing him), you say "No. No pushing. Tell your brother "That's my truck." And then you can say to brother, "Big Brother is playing with that truck, you can have this truck." and so on. Or... little brother was using that truck, you may use a different ruck. Little brother, tell big brother No, my truck." (you need to empower both at the same time to use their words, not their fists, and to say what they want and need. This is a skill that they will start developing now and will have perfected by 5 or 6 yrs old. But by 4 years old a child really should not be pushing their way through the world most of the day.

If he's not doing it because he's frustrated that brother is taking something, breaking something, knocking over the block building he's doing, etc. then he's FOR SURE trying to see what the limits are, what is "OK" in the house. And frankly, it's scary to be able to do ANYTHING his heart desires. So he keeps pushing, trying to figure out where the limit is. And hitting and hurting is NOT OK. You have taught him it's ok.

So it's stops now. Tell him tonight when you are having a quiet moment with him "You have been hurting and pushing and shoving your brother. That is not ok. I will not let you hurt him. So from now on when you do that, you will have to sit away from us for 2 minutes (or 3 minutes). Taking away screen time, or tv time later in the day, or reading with parents at bedtime is too far removed and doesn't work. Being away from the group of people acting appropriately will work, because who wants to leave the people having fun?

I don't believe in shaming, I don't believe in time out, I don't believe in 'saying you are sorry' - but I do believe in keeping kids safe and having them learn that there are limits. They may NOT throw blocks, etc. So he needs to leave the group and the fun when he hurts, or tries to hurt.

I do know some of the Lansbury believes, and I like them with infants and toddlers. But for this instance, he's DYING to know what's ok in his house and nobody is telling him. How scary for a little child.

OP here. THANK YOU. This was extremely helpful. This is exactly what I have been thinking and trying to articulate. Thank you.

You are welcome, OP. You'll see that in a few weeks or months thibgs will be markedly better. Good to know my Master's in Early Childhood Education is useful! (And also at my day job which is to direct a full day preschool)

[Anonymous]

I am in a situation similar to yours (sahm, children ages 31/2 and 21 months) and tried a lot of positive parenting, which only helped a bit. Yes it made us closer and she liked it more, but little brother still got hit and bullied a lot. I got fed up one day when I was pmsing and she hurt him badly out of the blue and gave her on hard pop on the butt and yelled DONT HURT BROTHER. That one instance has done more to curb her aggression than weeks and months of positive parenting techniques. Just saying...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I follow Janet Lansbury and I have a 3 yo and a baby. My 3 yo had a brief phase of trying to hurt the baby in various ways (biting was a favorite). I took away her favorite thing for increasing amounts of time. First offense, one day. Second offense, two days, etc. By four days without it and asking a million times every day and getting the same "unruffled" response she finally got it. She no longer hurts the baby.

If you're doing everything else (modeling, 1:1 attention, etc.) than I think you absolutely need to enforce some negative consequence. You need to protect the baby, that's the priority. I'd lose my mind if older DC nearly pushed younger DC down the stairs. That is not a time to worry about your reaction being a source of attention.

Can you please share some more info? This is helpful. My son just turned 3, so he’s young.

And I have lost my mind. I get so upset. It’s really scary and upsetting to see the baby getting so hurt for no reason.

But then, according to the books, but reactions are JUST want DS1 wants.

Stop. First of all, anyone can write a book. It's just someone's opinion. You need to take them with a big grain of salt and add a little bit of common sense.

NO. WHAT YOUR CHILD WANTS/NEEDS is limit setting. He's doing it because he's wondering what the limjt is. If I push, is that ok? If I shove, that's ok? What about if I push down the stairs? Children of this age NEED limits. Not beatings, not being sent to their room for a day or two, but limits. It helps them feel safe, that someone is setting limits because they don't yet have the self control not to do the things they think of. On some level, he knows there are limits - I mean, if he went at the baby with a knife, you'd grab it and say NO! because you wouldn't just ignore that, right? So he KNOWS there are limits and he's desperately trying to figure out what they are.

He starts to push (because you are right there, shadowing him), you say "No. No pushing. Tell your brother "That's my truck." And then you can say to brother, "Big Brother is playing with that truck, you can have this truck." and so on. Or... little brother was using that truck, you may use a different ruck. Little brother, tell big brother No, my truck." (you need to empower both at the same time to use their words, not their fists, and to say what they want and need. This is a skill that they will start developing now and will have perfected by 5 or 6 yrs old. But by 4 years old a child really should not be pushing their way through the world most of the day.

If he's not doing it because he's frustrated that brother is taking something, breaking something, knocking over the block building he's doing, etc. then he's FOR SURE trying to see what the limits are, what is "OK" in the house. And frankly, it's scary to be able to do ANYTHING his heart desires. So he keeps pushing, trying to figure out where the limit is. And hitting and hurting is NOT OK. You have taught him it's ok.

So it's stops now. Tell him tonight when you are having a quiet moment with him "You have been hurting and pushing and shoving your brother. That is not ok. I will not let you hurt him. So from now on when you do that, you will have to sit away from us for 2 minutes (or 3 minutes). Taking away screen time, or tv time later in the day, or reading with parents at bedtime is too far removed and doesn't work. Being away from the group of people acting appropriately will work, because who wants to leave the people having fun?

I don't believe in shaming, I don't believe in time out, I don't believe in 'saying you are sorry' - but I do believe in keeping kids safe and having them learn that there are limits. They may NOT throw blocks, etc. So he needs to leave the group and the fun when he hurts, or tries to hurt.

I do know some of the Lansbury believes, and I like them with infants and toddlers. But for this instance, he's DYING to know what's ok in his house and nobody is telling him. How scary for a little child.

OP here. THANK YOU. This was extremely helpful. This is exactly what I have been thinking and trying to articulate. Thank you.

You are welcome, OP. You'll see that in a few weeks or months thibgs will be markedly better. Good to know my Master's in Early Childhood Education is useful! (And also at my day job which is to direct a full day preschool)

I’m sad to admit that I too have a master in education. My class was the best behaved, most well managed class ever. But this...is different.

I’m really torn about time outs. There MUST be consequences, obviously. He needs to know that there are limits. But he’s also a kid who will fight the time out and cause a power struggle. He’s a kid who responds really well to praise, of course.

I’m thinking about doing a sticker chart. I rejected the color system in my classroom but I think my son would like it.

Thoughts, fellow teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am in a situation similar to yours (sahm, children ages 31/2 and 21 months) and tried a lot of positive parenting, which only helped a bit. Yes it made us closer and she liked it more, but little brother still got hit and bullied a lot. I got fed up one day when I was pmsing and she hurt him badly out of the blue and gave her on hard pop on the butt and yelled DONT HURT BROTHER. That one instance has done more to curb her aggression than weeks and months of positive parenting techniques. Just saying...

I hear you. I do. But we’ve been trying to say to him “family doesn’t hurt each other” over and over again so I feel like popping him is counterintuitive.

What else have you done?

[Anonymous]

NO. WHAT YOUR CHILD WANTS/NEEDS is limit setting. He's doing it because he's wondering what the limjt is. If I push, is that ok? If I shove, that's ok? What about if I push down the stairs? Children of this age NEED limits. Not beatings, not being sent to their room for a day or two, but limits. It helps them feel safe, that someone is setting limits because they don't yet have the self control not to do the things they think of. On some level, he knows there are limits - I mean, if he went at the baby with a knife, you'd grab it and say NO! because you wouldn't just ignore that, right? So he KNOWS there are limits and he's desperately trying to figure out what they are.

He starts to push (because you are right there, shadowing him), you say "No. No pushing. Tell your brother "That's my truck." And then you can say to brother, "Big Brother is playing with that truck, you can have this truck." and so on. Or... little brother was using that truck, you may use a different ruck. Little brother, tell big brother No, my truck." (you need to empower both at the same time to use their words, not their fists, and to say what they want and need. This is a skill that they will start developing now and will have perfected by 5 or 6 yrs old. But by 4 years old a child really should not be pushing their way through the world most of the day.

If he's not doing it because he's frustrated that brother is taking something, breaking something, knocking over the block building he's doing, etc. then he's FOR SURE trying to see what the limits are, what is "OK" in the house. And frankly, it's scary to be able to do ANYTHING his heart desires. So he keeps pushing, trying to figure out where the limit is. And hitting and hurting is NOT OK. You have taught him it's ok.

So it's stops now. Tell him tonight when you are having a quiet moment with him "You have been hurting and pushing and shoving your brother. That is not ok. I will not let you hurt him. So from now on when you do that, you will have to sit away from us for 2 minutes (or 3 minutes). Taking away screen time, or tv time later in the day, or reading with parents at bedtime is too far removed and doesn't work. Being away from the group of people acting appropriately will work, because who wants to leave the people having fun?

I don't believe in shaming, I don't believe in time out, I don't believe in 'saying you are sorry' - but I do believe in keeping kids safe and having them learn that there are limits. They may NOT throw blocks, etc. So he needs to leave the group and the fun when he hurts, or tries to hurt.

I do know some of the Lansbury believes, and I like them with infants and toddlers. But for this instance, he's DYING to know what's ok in his house and nobody is telling him. How scary for a little child.

Sincere question: what is the difference between that and time out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

This is absurd and terrible for your child. Some children need more consistent discipline than others. It sounds like your 3 year old is very aggressive. When he is being aggressive, you need to stop the behavior immediately, put him in time out, take a privilege away, whatever works. He is also getting old enough that you may be able to implement a behavior chart. He gets a sticker every day (or morning, etc.) that he doesn't hurt his brother. Then at the end of 1 week, two weeks, whatever he gets a big treat.

It also sounds like you talk and explain to him too much. Remember, you sound like Charlie Brown's teacher to him.

[Anonymous]

“Positive Parenting” lmao that’s working real well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

The Janet Lansbury approach would be to block big brother or keep the little one away from him. When he tries to hit you calmly block his attempts and say “I won’t let you hit your little sibling” or if it continues “I think you’re telling me you are having big emotions and need me to keep you away from your sibling.” Your 3 y/o is telling you he cannot handle the big emotions around having a sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

The Janet Lansbury approach would be to block big brother or keep the little one away from him. When he tries to hit you calmly block his attempts and say “I won’t let you hit your little sibling” or if it continues “I think you’re telling me you are having big emotions and need me to keep you away from your sibling.” Your 3 y/o is telling you he cannot handle the big emotions around having a sibling.

You’re right. We try to counteract that with talking and modeling and blocking. But the aggression continues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

He needs a couple of good, hard swats on his bottom and he will stop this crap. He is a spoiled brat who is quickly becoming a bully. Start parenting and stop being a wuss. You also have an obligation to the child who is being bullied by this hellion

That's not instilling discipline or teaching self-control; it's simply coercion through physical fear. And it's pure hypocrisy. If a parent swats, spanks, "pops," "taps" or otherwise hits a child, then says to that child, "Don't hit. Hitting is not allowed," the parent loses all credibility. Children model what they see, not what they hear. "But mom, you swat ME, so why is it bad if I swat brother?"

Yes, OP's child will "stop this crap" if she hits him, because fear usually works on kids. He won't learn why his actions are wrong but he absolutely will learn that his parent will cause him physical pain and then confuse him by saying that causing pain is wrong.

So if a parent takes a toy or activity from the child, can the child then take a toy or activity from another when the other is misbehaving? By your logic almost any form of discipline is hypocrisy because the child is not allowed to implement it to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

This is absurd and terrible for your child. Some children need more consistent discipline than others. It sounds like your 3 year old is very aggressive. When he is being aggressive, you need to stop the behavior immediately, put him in time out, take a privilege away, whatever works. He is also getting old enough that you may be able to implement a behavior chart. He gets a sticker every day (or morning, etc.) that he doesn't hurt his brother. Then at the end of 1 week, two weeks, whatever he gets a big treat.

It also sounds like you talk and explain to him too much. Remember, you sound like Charlie Brown's teacher to him.

I think OP is kind of absurd but the bolded is also absurd. Toddlers understand a lot. My daughters tantrums improved a lot when I started to acknowledge her ability to understand and talk her through stuff. Regardless of the method of discipline you take, communicating with your kid is a good thing that will build trust and love between you. Don't underestimate any child's ability to tune into what's going on around them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in a situation similar to yours (sahm, children ages 31/2 and 21 months) and tried a lot of positive parenting, which only helped a bit. Yes it made us closer and she liked it more, but little brother still got hit and bullied a lot. I got fed up one day when I was pmsing and she hurt him badly out of the blue and gave her on hard pop on the butt and yelled DONT HURT BROTHER. That one instance has done more to curb her aggression than weeks and months of positive parenting techniques. Just saying...

I hear you. I do. But we’ve been trying to say to him “family doesn’t hurt each other” over and over again so I feel like popping him is counterintuitive.

What else have you done?

Read the bolded again. Sometimes a brief, notable reprimand like what PP did is much more effective than other approaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in a situation similar to yours (sahm, children ages 31/2 and 21 months) and tried a lot of positive parenting, which only helped a bit. Yes it made us closer and she liked it more, but little brother still got hit and bullied a lot. I got fed up one day when I was pmsing and she hurt him badly out of the blue and gave her on hard pop on the butt and yelled DONT HURT BROTHER. That one instance has done more to curb her aggression than weeks and months of positive parenting techniques. Just saying...

I hear you. I do. But we’ve been trying to say to him “family doesn’t hurt each other” over and over again so I feel like popping him is counterintuitive.

What else have you done?

Obviously repeating the same phrase over and over again has no effect and is not a consequence so either change your behavior and ACTUALLY DISCIPLINE or stop complaining! God!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

Yikes!

Okay, I'm with you 100% on the no spanking.

But, your response is an overreaction and is giving him the attention he deserves, but with NO consequences.

Based on reading this, your DS is literally begging you for limits and to parent him.

I'm one of the Janet Lansbury PPs, and here's something to try:

Next time DS1 is aggressive towards DS2, show no emotion. Calmly say to DS1 something like: "I won't tolerate you hitting your brother. You're showing me that you're having a hard time controlling yourself, so I'm going to need to separate you for a while. Go to your room for a few minutes to calm down, and I'll come get you in 5 minutes."

Yes, it's effectively the same thing as a time out, but I do think the explanation sorta helps.

I do agree he needs limits. Im shocked that I’m stumped. I was a teacher, a really good one, but this is different and it sucks.

+1

I like Janet Lansbury and have similar aged kids. When my 3 year old gets rough I try and stay unruffled but he is moved to a separate place in the house and he is told why. I (try) and head things off before they get to that place, and I don't ever leave them alone. Annoying but your son has made it clear he isnt ready for that so stop doing it!