3 year old son constantly hurts little brother

[Anonymous]

I'm a pretty gentle/consensual parent, and a pretty gentle/consensual special ed teacher of kids with emotional issues.

The first thing I'll tell you is that it is unnatural to expect a parent not to react when their child is hurt. Kids need to see that people have real emotions, and they need to see normal healthy emotional responses, and ignoring your child's injuries is not that. In addition, most of us have a point where we can't ignore (too close to the stairs? a broken bone?) and you don't want the 3 year old to be searching for that point.

So, if you're concerned that attention is part of the reinforcer, you need to respond in a way that doesn't feed the behavior with attention, which is most easily done by turning your attention to the victim. Come in, scoop up your crying child, take him in the next room and cuddle him and love on him. Leave your other kid standing there watching his brother get all the attention. If your other kid follows you let him watch, but if he tries to climb on your lap or whatever tell him right now you need to take care of the baby who was hurt. Basically, you're giving a time out, in that you're withdrawing attention, but you're doing it in a logical way.

Then, after the baby is calmed down, and settled into a play activity, call you older child over and calmly (you should be calmed down by this point), and say "You hit your brother. That is not OK. We do not hit in this family."

Then, on top of it, think about what you do want your son to do instead, and explicitly teach that. "I notice you like to push. Let me show you how you CAN push. You can push on the wall like this." And when you catch him about to start cue him "remember the wall!" When he remembers, reinforce like crazy. "What a big boy! Great job!"

If those things don't work, then I'd think of adding another layer of consequence, either something he likes (e.g. a sticker towards earning a special activity) for NOT hitting, or losing something for doing it. I wouldn't do a traditional time out at this point, because usually there is a lot of attention involved in teaching the skill of going to time out, and in the moment it sounds like you're too emotional to be able to teach it without it being reinforcing. So, I'd take something away instead, since that's not a consequence that needs your son's cooperation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a pretty gentle/consensual parent, and a pretty gentle/consensual special ed teacher of kids with emotional issues.

The first thing I'll tell you is that it is unnatural to expect a parent not to react when their child is hurt. Kids need to see that people have real emotions, and they need to see normal healthy emotional responses, and ignoring your child's injuries is not that. In addition, most of us have a point where we can't ignore (too close to the stairs? a broken bone?) and you don't want the 3 year old to be searching for that point.

So, if you're concerned that attention is part of the reinforcer, you need to respond in a way that doesn't feed the behavior with attention, which is most easily done by turning your attention to the victim. Come in, scoop up your crying child, take him in the next room and cuddle him and love on him. Leave your other kid standing there watching his brother get all the attention. If your other kid follows you let him watch, but if he tries to climb on your lap or whatever tell him right now you need to take care of the baby who was hurt. Basically, you're giving a time out, in that you're withdrawing attention, but you're doing it in a logical way.

Then, after the baby is calmed down, and settled into a play activity, call you older child over and calmly (you should be calmed down by this point), and say "You hit your brother. That is not OK. We do not hit in this family."

Then, on top of it, think about what you do want your son to do instead, and explicitly teach that. "I notice you like to push. Let me show you how you CAN push. You can push on the wall like this." And when you catch him about to start cue him "remember the wall!" When he remembers, reinforce like crazy. "What a big boy! Great job!"

If those things don't work, then I'd think of adding another layer of consequence, either something he likes (e.g. a sticker towards earning a special activity) for NOT hitting, or losing something for doing it. I wouldn't do a traditional time out at this point, because usually there is a lot of attention involved in teaching the skill of going to time out, and in the moment it sounds like you're too emotional to be able to teach it without it being reinforcing. So, I'd take something away instead, since that's not a consequence that needs your son's cooperation.

This is really helpful, thank you for taking the time to write it.

What you wrote is sort of what we are doing now: comforting the baby, and ignoring DS1 when he follows us and wants a hug too. But it’s not working because he keeps trying to find the limit. It’s really hard. He needs to know he CANNOT hurt brother.

He might respond well to a sticker chart, I just have to figure out how to write it. :-/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

This is absurd and terrible for your child. Some children need more consistent discipline than others. It sounds like your 3 year old is very aggressive. When he is being aggressive, you need to stop the behavior immediately, put him in time out, take a privilege away, whatever works. He is also getting old enough that you may be able to implement a behavior chart. He gets a sticker every day (or morning, etc.) that he doesn't hurt his brother. Then at the end of 1 week, two weeks, whatever he gets a big treat.

It also sounds like you talk and explain to him too much. Remember, you sound like Charlie Brown's teacher to him.

I think OP is kind of absurd but the bolded is also absurd. Toddlers understand a lot. My daughters tantrums improved a lot when I started to acknowledge her ability to understand and talk her through stuff. Regardless of the method of discipline you take, communicating with your kid is a good thing that will build trust and love between you. Don't underestimate any child's ability to tune into what's going on around them.

I also think OP is trying to explain too much. She's crying and begging him to stop hurting his brother? He doesn't fully understand what he's doing, so this is obviously not working. The whole "family doesn't hurt each other" (which, by the way makes no sense - who cares if it's family? You don't hurt anyone!) isn't sinking in with him. Your concept of family doesn't equate with his concept of family. You are obviously emotionally upset at seeing your children hit or being hit, but your son does not view hitting his brother the same way you do - that's the first thing I think you need to understand. I'm not judging you for yelling - I have also yelled at my kids, especially when they have done something dangerous, but the cycle you're in isn't working. Sticker charts are great for rewarding good behavior, and that can be a component of this, but you also need some actual discipline here. I'm not talking about spanking because I don't spank my kids, but there are negative consequences for their bad behavior. One of my girls would refuse to do time outs. We started at one minute and I'd tell her to go sit down for her time out. Then I'd count to three. If she wasn't in time out by the time I said three, then it became two minutes. If she got up before the time was over, I restarted the timer on my phone. The first few times took a while and then she realized I was serious. I've also taken away toys they are playing with or other things that are immediate consequences (not, you won't get to go to the zoo tomorrow). Different things work for different kids, and you do whatever works for you, but the two things I read from what you said are (1) you need to rethink how your son is seeing this situation rather than how you're seeing it and communicate with him in a way that makes sense and (2) you need something more than just positive parenting here.

[Anonymous]

One day he is going to bully another kid who will fight back and give him a taste of his own medicine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

But earlier you said "We do not react when he hurts the brother, because negative attention is attention!"

So which one is it? You don't react at all or you cry hysterically? You literally contradicted yourself in only two pages.

[Anonymous]

A 19 month old is not a “baby”. A good hard spanking will
stop the 3 year old. Too many people are are afraid of their own children. Children having a little fear of their parents is not a bad thing. He does this because there isn’t any consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

But earlier you said "We do not react when he hurts the brother, because negative attention is attention!"


So which one is it? You don't react at all or you cry hysterically? You literally contradicted yourself in only two pages.

+1. Throwing a tantrum yourself will do nothing. This kid needs discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

This is absurd and terrible for your child. Some children need more consistent discipline than others. It sounds like your 3 year old is very aggressive. When he is being aggressive, you need to stop the behavior immediately, put him in time out, take a privilege away, whatever works. He is also getting old enough that you may be able to implement a behavior chart. He gets a sticker every day (or morning, etc.) that he doesn't hurt his brother. Then at the end of 1 week, two weeks, whatever he gets a big treat.

It also sounds like you talk and explain to him too much. Remember, you sound like Charlie Brown's teacher to him.

I think OP is kind of absurd but the bolded is also absurd. Toddlers understand a lot. My daughters tantrums improved a lot when I started to acknowledge her ability to understand and talk her through stuff. Regardless of the method of discipline you take, communicating with your kid is a good thing that will build trust and love between you. Don't underestimate any child's ability to tune into what's going on around them.

I also think OP is trying to explain too much. She's crying and begging him to stop hurting his brother? He doesn't fully understand what he's doing, so this is obviously not working. The whole "family doesn't hurt each other" (which, by the way makes no sense - who cares if it's family? You don't hurt anyone!) isn't sinking in with him. Your concept of family doesn't equate with his concept of family. You are obviously emotionally upset at seeing your children hit or being hit, but your son does not view hitting his brother the same way you do - that's the first thing I think you need to understand. I'm not judging you for yelling - I have also yelled at my kids, especially when they have done something dangerous, but the cycle you're in isn't working. Sticker charts are great for rewarding good behavior, and that can be a component of this, but you also need some actual discipline here. I'm not talking about spanking because I don't spank my kids, but there are negative consequences for their bad behavior. One of my girls would refuse to do time outs. We started at one minute and I'd tell her to go sit down for her time out. Then I'd count to three. If she wasn't in time out by the time I said three, then it became two minutes. If she got up before the time was over, I restarted the timer on my phone. The first few times took a while and then she realized I was serious. I've also taken away toys they are playing with or other things that are immediate consequences (not, you won't get to go to the zoo tomorrow). Different things work for different kids, and you do whatever works for you, but the two things I read from what you said are (1) you need to rethink how your son is seeing this situation rather than how you're seeing it and communicate with him in a way that makes sense and (2) you need something more than just positive parenting here.

OP here. You are right. Thank you for taking the time to write this (I know it's time consuming to write a thoughtful response!) I appreciate the details, especially on how you do time out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

But earlier you said "We do not react when he hurts the brother, because negative attention is attention!"

So which one is it? You don't react at all or you cry hysterically? You literally contradicted yourself in only two pages.

I meant, we *try* to not react with a big scene or freak out. But sometimes he really hurts the brother and we instinctively yell.

[Anonymous]

Try Kazdin