3 year old son constantly hurts little brother

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I follow Janet Lansbury and I have a 3 yo and a baby. My 3 yo had a brief phase of trying to hurt the baby in various ways (biting was a favorite). I took away her favorite thing for increasing amounts of time. First offense, one day. Second offense, two days, etc. By four days without it and asking a million times every day and getting the same "unruffled" response she finally got it. She no longer hurts the baby.

If you're doing everything else (modeling, 1:1 attention, etc.) than I think you absolutely need to enforce some negative consequence. You need to protect the baby, that's the priority. I'd lose my mind if older DC nearly pushed younger DC down the stairs. That is not a time to worry about your reaction being a source of attention.

Can you please share some more info? This is helpful. My son just turned 3, so he’s young.

And I have lost my mind. I get so upset. It’s really scary and upsetting to see the baby getting so hurt for no reason.

But then, according to the books, but reactions are JUST want DS1 wants.

Stop. First of all, anyone can write a book. It's just someone's opinion. You need to take them with a big grain of salt and add a little bit of common sense.

NO. WHAT YOUR CHILD WANTS/NEEDS is limit setting. He's doing it because he's wondering what the limjt is. If I push, is that ok? If I shove, that's ok? What about if I push down the stairs? Children of this age NEED limits. Not beatings, not being sent to their room for a day or two, but limits. It helps them feel safe, that someone is setting limits because they don't yet have the self control not to do the things they think of. On some level, he knows there are limits - I mean, if he went at the baby with a knife, you'd grab it and say NO! because you wouldn't just ignore that, right? So he KNOWS there are limits and he's desperately trying to figure out what they are.

He starts to push (because you are right there, shadowing him), you say "No. No pushing. Tell your brother "That's my truck." And then you can say to brother, "Big Brother is playing with that truck, you can have this truck." and so on. Or... little brother was using that truck, you may use a different ruck. Little brother, tell big brother No, my truck." (you need to empower both at the same time to use their words, not their fists, and to say what they want and need. This is a skill that they will start developing now and will have perfected by 5 or 6 yrs old. But by 4 years old a child really should not be pushing their way through the world most of the day.

If he's not doing it because he's frustrated that brother is taking something, breaking something, knocking over the block building he's doing, etc. then he's FOR SURE trying to see what the limits are, what is "OK" in the house. And frankly, it's scary to be able to do ANYTHING his heart desires. So he keeps pushing, trying to figure out where the limit is. And hitting and hurting is NOT OK. You have taught him it's ok.

So it's stops now. Tell him tonight when you are having a quiet moment with him "You have been hurting and pushing and shoving your brother. That is not ok. I will not let you hurt him. So from now on when you do that, you will have to sit away from us for 2 minutes (or 3 minutes). Taking away screen time, or tv time later in the day, or reading with parents at bedtime is too far removed and doesn't work. Being away from the group of people acting appropriately will work, because who wants to leave the people having fun?

I don't believe in shaming, I don't believe in time out, I don't believe in 'saying you are sorry' - but I do believe in keeping kids safe and having them learn that there are limits. They may NOT throw blocks, etc. So he needs to leave the group and the fun when he hurts, or tries to hurt.

I do know some of the Lansbury believes, and I like them with infants and toddlers. But for this instance, he's DYING to know what's ok in his house and nobody is telling him. How scary for a little child.

[Anonymous]

Get a grip OP, you think crying and begging a three year old to be effective? Better do something before your younger boy gets greviously hurt. I know parents like you and I don’t allow my kids to play with theirs, they rationalize bad behavior when their children try to hurt mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We will not spank or hit him. We talk all the time about how “family doesn’t hurt each other”. It doesn’t make sense to hit him and then tell him he cannot hit his brother.

I do react, usually by yelling. I get really upset and cry and beg him to stop hurting brother. He usually starts to cry and reaches for a hug and consolation, and I feel awful. It’s not working.

Wait. I thought you didn't react? Your story keeps changing. ..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I follow Janet Lansbury and I have a 3 yo and a baby. My 3 yo had a brief phase of trying to hurt the baby in various ways (biting was a favorite). I took away her favorite thing for increasing amounts of time. First offense, one day. Second offense, two days, etc. By four days without it and asking a million times every day and getting the same "unruffled" response she finally got it. She no longer hurts the baby.

If you're doing everything else (modeling, 1:1 attention, etc.) than I think you absolutely need to enforce some negative consequence. You need to protect the baby, that's the priority. I'd lose my mind if older DC nearly pushed younger DC down the stairs. That is not a time to worry about your reaction being a source of attention.

Can you please share some more info? This is helpful. My son just turned 3, so he’s young.

And I have lost my mind. I get so upset. It’s really scary and upsetting to see the baby getting so hurt for no reason.

But then, according to the books, but reactions are JUST want DS1 wants.

Stop. First of all, anyone can write a book. It's just someone's opinion. You need to take them with a big grain of salt and add a little bit of common sense.

NO. WHAT YOUR CHILD WANTS/NEEDS is limit setting. He's doing it because he's wondering what the limjt is. If I push, is that ok? If I shove, that's ok? What about if I push down the stairs? Children of this age NEED limits. Not beatings, not being sent to their room for a day or two, but limits. It helps them feel safe, that someone is setting limits because they don't yet have the self control not to do the things they think of. On some level, he knows there are limits - I mean, if he went at the baby with a knife, you'd grab it and say NO! because you wouldn't just ignore that, right? So he KNOWS there are limits and he's desperately trying to figure out what they are.

He starts to push (because you are right there, shadowing him), you say "No. No pushing. Tell your brother "That's my truck." And then you can say to brother, "Big Brother is playing with that truck, you can have this truck." and so on. Or... little brother was using that truck, you may use a different ruck. Little brother, tell big brother No, my truck." (you need to empower both at the same time to use their words, not their fists, and to say what they want and need. This is a skill that they will start developing now and will have perfected by 5 or 6 yrs old. But by 4 years old a child really should not be pushing their way through the world most of the day.

If he's not doing it because he's frustrated that brother is taking something, breaking something, knocking over the block building he's doing, etc. then he's FOR SURE trying to see what the limits are, what is "OK" in the house. And frankly, it's scary to be able to do ANYTHING his heart desires. So he keeps pushing, trying to figure out where the limit is. And hitting and hurting is NOT OK. You have taught him it's ok.

So it's stops now. Tell him tonight when you are having a quiet moment with him "You have been hurting and pushing and shoving your brother. That is not ok. I will not let you hurt him. So from now on when you do that, you will have to sit away from us for 2 minutes (or 3 minutes). Taking away screen time, or tv time later in the day, or reading with parents at bedtime is too far removed and doesn't work. Being away from the group of people acting appropriately will work, because who wants to leave the people having fun?

I don't believe in shaming, I don't believe in time out, I don't believe in 'saying you are sorry' - but I do believe in keeping kids safe and having them learn that there are limits. They may NOT throw blocks, etc. So he needs to leave the group and the fun when he hurts, or tries to hurt.

I do know some of the Lansbury believes, and I like them with infants and toddlers. But for this instance, he's DYING to know what's ok in his house and nobody is telling him. How scary for a little child.

This is fantastic advice all around OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get a grip OP, you think crying and begging a three year old to be effective? Better do something before your younger boy gets greviously hurt. I know parents like you and I don’t allow my kids to play with theirs, they rationalize bad behavior when their children try to hurt mine.

OP understands she needs help and is asking for it. No need to pile on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. Live time update:

Ok, so just now he rammed brother into a wall.

I firmly picked him up, said we do not hurt brother, and put him in the chair in the corner. Said he had to sit for 3 minutes.

He’s throwing a fit, banging his head on the wall, falling off the chair, screaming.

Normal, right? He’s going to hurt himself. Ughhhh

Yes, normal. And if you react, you'll make it worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

He needs a couple of good, hard swats on his bottom and he will stop this crap. He is a spoiled brat who is quickly becoming a bully. Start parenting and stop being a wuss. You also have an obligation to the child who is being bullied by this hellion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

He needs a couple of good, hard swats on his bottom and he will stop this crap. He is a spoiled brat who is quickly becoming a bully. Start parenting and stop being a wuss. You also have an obligation to the child who is being bullied by this hellion

There is never a reason for snadult to strike a child. You are horrid, PP.

OP, I warn my son ahead of time about poor choices and then if he does them the consequences are memorable. Time outs never phased himso I started taking away whatever toy was his favorite (I warned him specifically that this was what I was going to do). It worked. Yes, they was screaming and crying but I just walked away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am so frustrated. I know that the aggression is rooted in jealousy. We are doing SO much to combat that. Ample 1:1 attention, emotional connections. We practice Positive Parenting. We do not react when he hurts the brother, because negative attention is attention!

I am exhausted. I cannot leave them alone for a single second. Not only that, but when we are together I have to actively watching. I cannot cook or do laundry or pee or shower unless I have one child with me.

3 year old will push over the 19 month old ANY time he walks by. He just pushed him into the wall. Yesterday he almost pushed him down the stairs. He’ll tackle, squeeze his neck, etc.

We are terrified of him really hurting the baby.

We are doing all we can. Please help.

You are not doing all you can. You are doing nothing. Discipline your kid. There is a lot of ground between what you are doing and beating his ass. Find something acceptable for you and your DH and DO IT. Don't wait until you end up in the ER because he shoved your baby down the stairs.

Are you a parent to two children? I really want to know what you’ve done and how it works.

I do, in fact, have two boys that are 17 months apart. We used time outs/separation/stopping the activity really effectively at that age. Separation still works at 7 and 8.

OP here. Thanks. My boys are 18 months apart. Can you please share what worked for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I follow Janet Lansbury and I have a 3 yo and a baby. My 3 yo had a brief phase of trying to hurt the baby in various ways (biting was a favorite). I took away her favorite thing for increasing amounts of time. First offense, one day. Second offense, two days, etc. By four days without it and asking a million times every day and getting the same "unruffled" response she finally got it. She no longer hurts the baby.

If you're doing everything else (modeling, 1:1 attention, etc.) than I think you absolutely need to enforce some negative consequence. You need to protect the baby, that's the priority. I'd lose my mind if older DC nearly pushed younger DC down the stairs. That is not a time to worry about your reaction being a source of attention.

Can you please share some more info? This is helpful. My son just turned 3, so he’s young.

And I have lost my mind. I get so upset. It’s really scary and upsetting to see the baby getting so hurt for no reason.

But then, according to the books, but reactions are JUST want DS1 wants.

Stop. First of all, anyone can write a book. It's just someone's opinion. You need to take them with a big grain of salt and add a little bit of common sense.

NO. WHAT YOUR CHILD WANTS/NEEDS is limit setting. He's doing it because he's wondering what the limjt is. If I push, is that ok? If I shove, that's ok? What about if I push down the stairs? Children of this age NEED limits. Not beatings, not being sent to their room for a day or two, but limits. It helps them feel safe, that someone is setting limits because they don't yet have the self control not to do the things they think of. On some level, he knows there are limits - I mean, if he went at the baby with a knife, you'd grab it and say NO! because you wouldn't just ignore that, right? So he KNOWS there are limits and he's desperately trying to figure out what they are.

He starts to push (because you are right there, shadowing him), you say "No. No pushing. Tell your brother "That's my truck." And then you can say to brother, "Big Brother is playing with that truck, you can have this truck." and so on. Or... little brother was using that truck, you may use a different ruck. Little brother, tell big brother No, my truck." (you need to empower both at the same time to use their words, not their fists, and to say what they want and need. This is a skill that they will start developing now and will have perfected by 5 or 6 yrs old. But by 4 years old a child really should not be pushing their way through the world most of the day.

If he's not doing it because he's frustrated that brother is taking something, breaking something, knocking over the block building he's doing, etc. then he's FOR SURE trying to see what the limits are, what is "OK" in the house. And frankly, it's scary to be able to do ANYTHING his heart desires. So he keeps pushing, trying to figure out where the limit is. And hitting and hurting is NOT OK. You have taught him it's ok.

So it's stops now. Tell him tonight when you are having a quiet moment with him "You have been hurting and pushing and shoving your brother. That is not ok. I will not let you hurt him. So from now on when you do that, you will have to sit away from us for 2 minutes (or 3 minutes). Taking away screen time, or tv time later in the day, or reading with parents at bedtime is too far removed and doesn't work. Being away from the group of people acting appropriately will work, because who wants to leave the people having fun?

I don't believe in shaming, I don't believe in time out, I don't believe in 'saying you are sorry' - but I do believe in keeping kids safe and having them learn that there are limits. They may NOT throw blocks, etc. So he needs to leave the group and the fun when he hurts, or tries to hurt.

I do know some of the Lansbury believes, and I like them with infants and toddlers. But for this instance, he's DYING to know what's ok in his house and nobody is telling him. How scary for a little child.

OP here. THANK YOU. This was extremely helpful. This is exactly what I have been thinking and trying to articulate. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Take a PEP class. Get some therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I follow Janet Lansbury and I have a 3 yo and a baby. My 3 yo had a brief phase of trying to hurt the baby in various ways (biting was a favorite). I took away her favorite thing for increasing amounts of time. First offense, one day. Second offense, two days, etc. By four days without it and asking a million times every day and getting the same "unruffled" response she finally got it. She no longer hurts the baby.

If you're doing everything else (modeling, 1:1 attention, etc.) than I think you absolutely need to enforce some negative consequence. You need to protect the baby, that's the priority. I'd lose my mind if older DC nearly pushed younger DC down the stairs. That is not a time to worry about your reaction being a source of attention.

Can you please share some more info? This is helpful. My son just turned 3, so he’s young.

And I have lost my mind. I get so upset. It’s really scary and upsetting to see the baby getting so hurt for no reason.

But then, according to the books, but reactions are JUST want DS1 wants.

Stop. First of all, anyone can write a book. It's just someone's opinion. You need to take them with a big grain of salt and add a little bit of common sense.

NO. WHAT YOUR CHILD WANTS/NEEDS is limit setting. He's doing it because he's wondering what the limjt is. If I push, is that ok? If I shove, that's ok? What about if I push down the stairs? Children of this age NEED limits. Not beatings, not being sent to their room for a day or two, but limits. It helps them feel safe, that someone is setting limits because they don't yet have the self control not to do the things they think of. On some level, he knows there are limits - I mean, if he went at the baby with a knife, you'd grab it and say NO! because you wouldn't just ignore that, right? So he KNOWS there are limits and he's desperately trying to figure out what they are.

He starts to push (because you are right there, shadowing him), you say "No. No pushing. Tell your brother "That's my truck." And then you can say to brother, "Big Brother is playing with that truck, you can have this truck." and so on. Or... little brother was using that truck, you may use a different ruck. Little brother, tell big brother No, my truck." (you need to empower both at the same time to use their words, not their fists, and to say what they want and need. This is a skill that they will start developing now and will have perfected by 5 or 6 yrs old. But by 4 years old a child really should not be pushing their way through the world most of the day.

If he's not doing it because he's frustrated that brother is taking something, breaking something, knocking over the block building he's doing, etc. then he's FOR SURE trying to see what the limits are, what is "OK" in the house. And frankly, it's scary to be able to do ANYTHING his heart desires. So he keeps pushing, trying to figure out where the limit is. And hitting and hurting is NOT OK. You have taught him it's ok.

So it's stops now. Tell him tonight when you are having a quiet moment with him "You have been hurting and pushing and shoving your brother. That is not ok. I will not let you hurt him. So from now on when you do that, you will have to sit away from us for 2 minutes (or 3 minutes). Taking away screen time, or tv time later in the day, or reading with parents at bedtime is too far removed and doesn't work. Being away from the group of people acting appropriately will work, because who wants to leave the people having fun?

I don't believe in shaming, I don't believe in time out, I don't believe in 'saying you are sorry' - but I do believe in keeping kids safe and having them learn that there are limits. They may NOT throw blocks, etc. So he needs to leave the group and the fun when he hurts, or tries to hurt.

I do know some of the Lansbury believes, and I like them with infants and toddlers. But for this instance, he's DYING to know what's ok in his house and nobody is telling him. How scary for a little child.

NP. Honest question- how is having the child sit away from the group for a few minutes different than a time out? I haven’t read Janet Landsbury so maybe the distinction is clearer in her writing, but to me these sound like the exact same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. Live time update:

Ok, so just now he rammed brother into a wall.

I firmly picked him up, said we do not hurt brother, and put him in the chair in the corner. Said he had to sit for 3 minutes.

He’s throwing a fit, banging his head on the wall, falling off the chair, screaming.

Normal, right? He’s going to hurt himself. Ughhhh

troll troll troll

[Anonymous]

Guys, this is a troll. Stop feeding the troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

We try to follow Janet Landsbury and Positive Parenting ideas, which means that do not do time outs. They all seem to stress to DO NOT REACT to the aggressor, because that is negative attention.

We are modeling, piling on positive attention, etc etc. Hes fed and rested. Good diet, and he’s home with me. He’s not bored.

He needs a couple of good, hard swats on his bottom and he will stop this crap. He is a spoiled brat who is quickly becoming a bully. Start parenting and stop being a wuss. You also have an obligation to the child who is being bullied by this hellion

That's not instilling discipline or teaching self-control; it's simply coercion through physical fear. And it's pure hypocrisy. If a parent swats, spanks, "pops," "taps" or otherwise hits a child, then says to that child, "Don't hit. Hitting is not allowed," the parent loses all credibility. Children model what they see, not what they hear. "But mom, you swat ME, so why is it bad if I swat brother?"

Yes, OP's child will "stop this crap" if she hits him, because fear usually works on kids. He won't learn why his actions are wrong but he absolutely will learn that his parent will cause him physical pain and then confuse him by saying that causing pain is wrong.