Must a child stand for pledge in Virginia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t it be nice if there was just that minute of silence thing only? Maybe with a few encouraging words from the teacher about visualizing the good day of learning and friendship they were going to have? How would they contribute to making this day go well for everyone.

No.

That moment of silence is the atheists prayer and religious expression.

The atheist’s prayer? What the hell are you talking about? The point of the moment of silence is you can use it to pray or meditate - it can be religious or not religious.

Seldom are the students completely silent. There always seems to be someone chatting, or humming, or other type of noise while they fiddle with something.

ES Teacher

Well, what do you suggest, ES teacher??

I’m not suggesting anything. The PP said the point is to use it to pray or meditate. I’m just saying they don’t use it for that and it’s not a moment of “silence”. It is what it is.

If a teacher or a school cannot enforce a mandatory Moment of Silence for 1 freakin' minute (have the kids put down their phones--which they should not even have out after the bell rings), there is a serious problem in this country. If kids cannot even have the respect for authority, or the ability to stand quietly for 1 minute, there is a serious problem of enablement of the snowflake culture.

PP here. None of my students are on phones in our ES classroom. I have never heard of anyone standing for the moment of silence. I’ve been teaching for almost 30 years and it is becoming increasingly difficult to “enforce” expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn’t it be nice if there was just that minute of silence thing only? Maybe with a few encouraging words from the teacher about visualizing the good day of learning and friendship they were going to have? How would they contribute to making this day go well for everyone.

No.

That moment of silence is the atheists prayer and religious expression.

The atheist’s prayer? What the hell are you talking about? The point of the moment of silence is you can use it to pray or meditate - it can be religious or not religious.

Seldom are the students completely silent. There always seems to be someone chatting, or humming, or other type of noise while they fiddle with something.

ES Teacher

Well, what do you suggest, ES teacher??

I’m not suggesting anything. The PP said the point is to use it to pray or meditate. I’m just saying they don’t use it for that and it’s not a moment of “silence”. It is what it is.

If a teacher or a school cannot enforce a mandatory Moment of Silence for 1 freakin' minute (have the kids put down their phones--which they should not even have out after the bell rings), there is a serious problem in this country. If kids cannot even have the respect for authority, or the ability to stand quietly for 1 minute, there is a serious problem of enablement of the snowflake culture.

Fellow teacher, here. I would love to be able to enforce a moment of silence for one minute. How do you suggest I do that? What authority do you think I have when the only consequences I can “enforce” are deferring to someone else’s authority - the parents…who may not care that Larlo is making noise or disrespecting the teacher or other students. The administrators, by the way, are politicians and only proxies for and/or customer servants of parents, so they are no help. Welcome to the corporate model of education.

Exactly. My students talk constantly. They do other things that are distracting. I can’t “make them” listen or participate. The Moment of Silence is not one of my biggest concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't they stand? I stand for other country's pledges and national anthems.

It doesn't matter why. It is a first amendment issue and standing/not standing is symbolic speech.

It is a shame that good manners are no longer taught

The pledge has nothing to do with manners. I’m a teacher and don’t recite or stand. Nor do most of my students, many of whom are immigrants or the 1st generation children of immigrants who have no reason or obligation to pledge to this flag. It’s a freaking weird tradition that has no bearing on what we do in school.

As a child of am immigrant and naturalized citizen, it is abhorrent that you as a teacher take this attitude towards immigrant children and recent citizens.

1st generation immigrants shoukd know more than anyone how precious our freedoms and liberties are. Their parents are some of the most patriotic people around.

Shameful anti American snd anti immigrant attitude that you profess.

It’s not my attitude, it’s theirs! Their identity is STRONGLY rooted in their home country first and foremost. Many would answer their Central American country of origin if you asked their nationality, and their citizenship as an American second. They have tremendous pride in their home countries. So they don’t feel the same sense of guilt to pledge to our flag that kids born in America and have only an American identity are inculcated to do. There’s nothing wrong with that so I have no idea why you accuse me of being anti immigrant- I am PRO them having their own identity!

You are indoctrinating immigrant children whose parents brought them here because they believe in America, its freedoms, Constitution, ideals and opportunities to disdain and hate America while subverting their parents' beliefs and patriotism in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Policing" this is an older white people thing.

Must have obedience or they'll tell you to have respect and "put you in your place".

This country was founded in the context of slavery and white privilege - (but also by great well-read men who understood great ideas and the weakness of man) - and won't be truly free until a kid can say "absolutely not" when Mr Perkins tells him to stand and pay worship to some symbol, iconography or leader.

As the military PP said - people have fought for us to have that right. The Nazis did not win. The slave-owners of the south did not win. The fact we had mercy on the vanquished is what allows the current authoritarian tendencies to persist and bubble back up. Jingoism is dangerous. On this July 4th we'd all do well to remember what ideals of freedom this county was founded on - and making a kid swear allegiance sure isn't part of that.

Unfortunately, leftist communists and marxists are doing all they can to destroy our country and ideals.

It is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't they stand? I stand for other country's pledges and national anthems.

It doesn't matter why. It is a first amendment issue and standing/not standing is symbolic speech.

It is a shame that good manners are no longer taught

The pledge has nothing to do with manners. I’m a teacher and don’t recite or stand. Nor do most of my students, many of whom are immigrants or the 1st generation children of immigrants who have no reason or obligation to pledge to this flag. It’s a freaking weird tradition that has no bearing on what we do in school.

As a child of am immigrant and naturalized citizen, it is abhorrent that you as a teacher take this attitude towards immigrant children and recent citizens.

1st generation immigrants shoukd know more than anyone how precious our freedoms and liberties are. Their parents are some of the most patriotic people around.

Shameful anti American snd anti immigrant attitude that you profess.

It’s not my attitude, it’s theirs! Their identity is STRONGLY rooted in their home country first and foremost. Many would answer their Central American country of origin if you asked their nationality, and their citizenship as an American second. They have tremendous pride in their home countries. So they don’t feel the same sense of guilt to pledge to our flag that kids born in America and have only an American identity are inculcated to do. There’s nothing wrong with that so I have no idea why you accuse me of being anti immigrant- I am PRO them having their own identity!

You are indoctrinating immigrant children whose parents brought them here because they believe in America, its freedoms, Constitution, ideals and opportunities to disdain and hate America while subverting their parents' beliefs and patriotism in this country.

What? This is nonsense. A cornerstone of American rights and the Constitution is freedom of speech, which includes symbolic speech (standing/sitting) and the freedom not to stand for the flag or recite the pledge if they choose not to, for whatever reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your child can’t stand there and say nothing? I’m guessing your kid just wants to be like the others and not a political pawn.

They are not required to stand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay so you can't "force" a student to stand, but can you tell them "Larlo, please stand up during the pledge" and if they don't then say "Please be respectful during the pledge" but all without literally forcing them to stand? Anything wrong with that?

And BTW I find that when students don't stand for the pledge in elementary school it is generally because they are distracted or silly or whatever, not making any kind of actual statement.

Yes, there is “something wrong with that.” They do not have to stand. They have the right to sit. If they sit, the teacher says *nothing.*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Policing" this is an older white people thing.

Must have obedience or they'll tell you to have respect and "put you in your place".

This country was founded in the context of slavery and white privilege - (but also by great well-read men who understood great ideas and the weakness of man) - and won't be truly free until a kid can say "absolutely not" when Mr Perkins tells him to stand and pay worship to some symbol, iconography or leader.

As the military PP said - people have fought for us to have that right. The Nazis did not win. The slave-owners of the south did not win. The fact we had mercy on the vanquished is what allows the current authoritarian tendencies to persist and bubble back up. Jingoism is dangerous. On this July 4th we'd all do well to remember what ideals of freedom this county was founded on - and making a kid swear allegiance sure isn't part of that.

Unfortunately, leftist communists and marxists are doing all they can to destroy our country and ideals.

It is sad.

These days, you should be more worried about Christian fundamentalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't they stand? I stand for other country's pledges and national anthems.

It doesn't matter why. It is a first amendment issue and standing/not standing is symbolic speech.

It is a shame that good manners are no longer taught

The pledge has nothing to do with manners. I’m a teacher and don’t recite or stand. Nor do most of my students, many of whom are immigrants or the 1st generation children of immigrants who have no reason or obligation to pledge to this flag. It’s a freaking weird tradition that has no bearing on what we do in school.

As a child of am immigrant and naturalized citizen, it is abhorrent that you as a teacher take this attitude towards immigrant children and recent citizens.

1st generation immigrants shoukd know more than anyone how precious our freedoms and liberties are. Their parents are some of the most patriotic people around.

Shameful anti American snd anti immigrant attitude that you profess.

It’s not my attitude, it’s theirs! Their identity is STRONGLY rooted in their home country first and foremost. Many would answer their Central American country of origin if you asked their nationality, and their citizenship as an American second. They have tremendous pride in their home countries. So they don’t feel the same sense of guilt to pledge to our flag that kids born in America and have only an American identity are inculcated to do. There’s nothing wrong with that so I have no idea why you accuse me of being anti immigrant- I am PRO them having their own identity!

You are indoctrinating immigrant children whose parents brought them here because they believe in America, its freedoms, Constitution, ideals and opportunities to disdain and hate America while subverting their parents' beliefs and patriotism in this country.

-1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your poor little snowflake op. We certainly wouldn’t want trouble him/ her in any way. Imagine being asked to stand in respect for ones country for a whole 30 seconds every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your poor little snowflake op. We certainly wouldn’t want trouble him/ her in any way. Imagine being asked to stand in respect for ones country for a whole 30 seconds every day.

You cannot do this. Please stop being stupid.

+1

Why should a non-religious person be forced to stand for a pledge that includes a reference to God? My DC chooses to sit quietly during the pledge and is not disruptive at all - I’m fine with that, as is the teacher.

Basic manners.

Nope. The law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Policing" this is an older white people thing.

Must have obedience or they'll tell you to have respect and "put you in your place".

This country was founded in the context of slavery and white privilege - (but also by great well-read men who understood great ideas and the weakness of man) - and won't be truly free until a kid can say "absolutely not" when Mr Perkins tells him to stand and pay worship to some symbol, iconography or leader.

As the military PP said - people have fought for us to have that right. The Nazis did not win. The slave-owners of the south did not win. The fact we had mercy on the vanquished is what allows the current authoritarian tendencies to persist and bubble back up. Jingoism is dangerous. On this July 4th we'd all do well to remember what ideals of freedom this county was founded on - and making a kid swear allegiance sure isn't part of that.

Unfortunately, leftist communists and marxists are doing all they can to destroy our country and ideals.

It is sad.

These days, you should be more worried about Christian fundamentalists.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why wouldn't they stand? I stand for other country's pledges and national anthems.

It doesn't matter why. It is a first amendment issue and standing/not standing is symbolic speech.

It is a shame that good manners are no longer taught

Ok I’ll let my child to stand pledge allegiance to Allah, since you insist on a God. Or does it have to be YOUR god?

If your child believes in Allah, then of course that would who they would be acknowledging.

No, no. A pledge directly to Allah, using that word, and your kid better damn well stand, because “manners.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your poor little snowflake op. We certainly wouldn’t want trouble him/ her in any way. Imagine being asked to stand in respect for ones country for a whole 30 seconds every day.

You cannot do this. Please stop being stupid.

+1

Why should a non-religious person be forced to stand for a pledge that includes a reference to God? My DC chooses to sit quietly during the pledge and is not disruptive at all - I’m fine with that, as is the teacher.

Basic manners.

Nope. The law.

There is no law that requires someone to stand for the Pledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My HS DD wants to take a knee next year, following the Dobbs decision. That is 100% her right, and if her HS pushes back I will support her doing so, as long as she is quiet, respectful, etc. if I am ever in public with her and she takes a knee (like at a football gram), I’ll join her.

1A is still a thing, for now.

I guarantee she won’t get the attention she’s hoping for nobody will even notice.

Oh, but they will notice, and it’s fun how much that upsets you.