Huge changes to TJ admissions test beginning next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are probably different kinds if TJ prep centers. My child's friend went to one where they did spend a lot of time doing practice tests and writing essays using previous questions. After semifinalist notifications came out, they concentrated on writing answers to the SIS questions, writing them again and again with the goal of memorizing their answers.

I know this because the child's mom told me all about it and directed me to the website so I could see what a great idea it was.

And this child started doing this in the spring of sixth grade, so for a total of about two years. Other kids we knew went to the same or similar businesses for this training. It was very expensive.

So what? it is their money and time. Many parents spend a lot of money on kids activities, such as expensive baseball camps and tournaments. All I hear on these thread is a lot of sour grapes about coaching this, prepping that, blady blah blah .. get a grip, ask your kids to get off their video games, instagram / snapchat, fb, and do more math, reading, and writing. Then may be then can become competitive.

Oh, I don't really care. A previous poster said that many prep places don't just practice questions over and over, so I was just relaying what I was told by a parent and read on the website about a place that does concentrate on that kind of prep.

Certainly no sour grapes here. My child got in without prep and had a great experience at TJ. He was fully qualified and did well by his own hard work without needing tutoring after school, and had time for sports all three seasons and work as a lifeguard during the summers. We saw the stressed kids and we saw the kids that had to go back to their regular school, which was a difficult situation for the kids and their parents.

For some kids, it would be far better to have a good and challenging experience at their regular high school by taking a lot of APs or IB classes then to go to TJ, be overwhelmed, and end up having to leave. It would be good to have an admissions process who could sort out kids who appear to be ready for TJ, but really aren't. It would save them and their families a lot of heartache.

That simply isn't realistic. Just like in other schools, in TJ too there will be kids who struggle. Are you wishing for Lake Wobegone where all the children are above average? Let there be those who take tutoring and struggle, isn't life like that, some thrive some struggle and some who struggle eventually come out of it and thrive, and some who did great in HS will do poorly later in life. We are not living in Garrison Heller's fantasy world.

Sure, it probably would be difficult to do, but it is still very sad for the kids who can't handle TJ and need to leave to go back to their regular schools. It's embarrassing for them and causes more stress than if they simply hadn't been accepted in the first place.

And, really, TJ is not just like other schools. It is for kid with outstanding abilities in STEM subjects who can benefit from a highly challenging curriculum. It is not a place for kids who need tutors to keep up. Kids who are struggling with high school academics need to be in their regular schools that are better set up to help kids who need more support. TJ is not a good place for kids who can't handle highly challenging academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are probably different kinds if TJ prep centers. My child's friend went to one where they did spend a lot of time doing practice tests and writing essays using previous questions. After semifinalist notifications came out, they concentrated on writing answers to the SIS questions, writing them again and again with the goal of memorizing their answers.

I know this because the child's mom told me all about it and directed me to the website so I could see what a great idea it was.

And this child started doing this in the spring of sixth grade, so for a total of about two years. Other kids we knew went to the same or similar businesses for this training. It was very expensive.

So what? it is their money and time. Many parents spend a lot of money on kids activities, such as expensive baseball camps and tournaments. All I hear on these thread is a lot of sour grapes about coaching this, prepping that, blady blah blah .. get a grip, ask your kids to get off their video games, instagram / snapchat, fb, and do more math, reading, and writing. Then may be then can become competitive.

Oh, I don't really care. A previous poster said that many prep places don't just practice questions over and over, so I was just relaying what I was told by a parent and read on the website about a place that does concentrate on that kind of prep.

Certainly no sour grapes here. My child got in without prep and had a great experience at TJ. He was fully qualified and did well by his own hard work without needing tutoring after school, and had time for sports all three seasons and work as a lifeguard during the summers. We saw the stressed kids and we saw the kids that had to go back to their regular school, which was a difficult situation for the kids and their parents.

For some kids, it would be far better to have a good and challenging experience at their regular high school by taking a lot of APs or IB classes then to go to TJ, be overwhelmed, and end up having to leave. It would be good to have an admissions process who could sort out kids who appear to be ready for TJ, but really aren't. It would save them and their families a lot of heartache.

That simply isn't realistic. Just like in other schools, in TJ too there will be kids who struggle. Are you wishing for Lake Wobegone where all the children are above average? Let there be those who take tutoring and struggle, isn't life like that, some thrive some struggle and some who struggle eventually come out of it and thrive, and some who did great in HS will do poorly later in life. We are not living in Garrison Heller's fantasy world.

Sure, it probably would be difficult to do, but it is still very sad for the kids who can't handle TJ and need to leave to go back to their regular schools. It's embarrassing for them and causes more stress than if they simply hadn't been accepted in the first place.

And, really, TJ is not just like other schools. It is for kid with outstanding abilities in STEM subjects who can benefit from a highly challenging curriculum. It is not a place for kids who need tutors to keep up. Kids who are struggling with high school academics need to be in their regular schools that are better set up to help kids who need more support. TJ is not a good place for kids who can't handle highly challenging academics.

blah bla blah why do you give it a sh!t so much about kids who need tutors to keep up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are probably different kinds if TJ prep centers. My child's friend went to one where they did spend a lot of time doing practice tests and writing essays using previous questions. After semifinalist notifications came out, they concentrated on writing answers to the SIS questions, writing them again and again with the goal of memorizing their answers.

I know this because the child's mom told me all about it and directed me to the website so I could see what a great idea it was.

And this child started doing this in the spring of sixth grade, so for a total of about two years. Other kids we knew went to the same or similar businesses for this training. It was very expensive.

So what? it is their money and time. Many parents spend a lot of money on kids activities, such as expensive baseball camps and tournaments. All I hear on these thread is a lot of sour grapes about coaching this, prepping that, blady blah blah .. get a grip, ask your kids to get off their video games, instagram / snapchat, fb, and do more math, reading, and writing. Then may be then can become competitive.

Oh, I don't really care. A previous poster said that many prep places don't just practice questions over and over, so I was just relaying what I was told by a parent and read on the website about a place that does concentrate on that kind of prep.

Certainly no sour grapes here. My child got in without prep and had a great experience at TJ. He was fully qualified and did well by his own hard work without needing tutoring after school, and had time for sports all three seasons and work as a lifeguard during the summers. We saw the stressed kids and we saw the kids that had to go back to their regular school, which was a difficult situation for the kids and their parents.

For some kids, it would be far better to have a good and challenging experience at their regular high school by taking a lot of APs or IB classes then to go to TJ, be overwhelmed, and end up having to leave. It would be good to have an admissions process who could sort out kids who appear to be ready for TJ, but really aren't. It would save them and their families a lot of heartache.

That simply isn't realistic. Just like in other schools, in TJ too there will be kids who struggle. Are you wishing for Lake Wobegone where all the children are above average? Let there be those who take tutoring and struggle, isn't life like that, some thrive some struggle and some who struggle eventually come out of it and thrive, and some who did great in HS will do poorly later in life. We are not living in Garrison Heller's fantasy world.

Sure, it probably would be difficult to do, but it is still very sad for the kids who can't handle TJ and need to leave to go back to their regular schools. It's embarrassing for them and causes more stress than if they simply hadn't been accepted in the first place.

And, really, TJ is not just like other schools. It is for kid with outstanding abilities in STEM subjects who can benefit from a highly challenging curriculum. It is not a place for kids who need tutors to keep up. Kids who are struggling with high school academics need to be in their regular schools that are better set up to help kids who need more support. TJ is not a good place for kids who can't handle highly challenging academics.

That's just stating the obvious. That is why there is a selection process that has many many criterias, not just one or two. However, no system is fail proof, and everyone has their opinion on how to make it better. It is a public funded school after all, and there are those who believe it should be more inclusive to URMs and FARMs. Everyone has an opinion.

[Anonymous]

I am a tax payer whose tax monies are being spent on this public schoool, and I believe it should not so test performance oriented, instead it should have more diverse minorities from AA and Latino kids who should be given opportunity to learn STEM topics. Some of these kids did not get the opportunity because of years of social injustice and inequalities, so they may not be the STEM brilliant students that a PP stated, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Kids at TJ cheat because, if they don't, they'll fall behind the kids who do. And if they get caught there are essentially no consequences - they can stay at TJ and counselors aren't allowed to tell colleges.

My DC, who has done very well at TJ without cheating, was shocked by the stories that were told at the assembly a few months ago. There are people (companies?) which have file cabinets of old TJ tests/problem sets, etc - and, yes, they seem to be shared among kids of the same ethnicity. He had absolutely no idea that was going on, and he came home very angry and upset. He was earning his grades while it seems half the school is cheating to get them.

I'm hopeful that the new principal will stress ethics more than Dr. Glazer, whose main concern is promoting the school, and by extension, himself.

[Anonymous]

A neighbor whose child graduated from TJ about ten years ago told me that a previous principal was "pushed out" for enforcing consequences for a group of kids who were cheating. At a meeting, she didn't identify the kids but apparently mentioned their ethnic background in passing and ended up retiring early. So, I wonder if that is a reason that the administration hasn't reacted strongly to cheating.

I found these articles that give more background about it:

https://www.washingtonian.com/2006/09/01/thomas-jefferson-high-school-interview-with-principal-elizabeth-lodal/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2006/05/03/va-principal-issues-apology-for-remarks-span-classbankheadlinking-ethnicity-and-cheating-was-wrong-fairfax-leader-saysspan/01cfcf99-d02f-4c11-b68e-e4997cf6d972/?utm_term=.d6ab75351222

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A neighbor whose child graduated from TJ about ten years ago told me that a previous principal was "pushed out" for enforcing consequences for a group of kids who were cheating. At a meeting, she didn't identify the kids but apparently mentioned their ethnic background in passing and ended up retiring early. So, I wonder if that is a reason that the administration hasn't reacted strongly to cheating.

I found these articles that give more background about it:

https://www.washingtonian.com/2006/09/01/thomas-jefferson-high-school-interview-with-principal-elizabeth-lodal/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2006/05/03/va-principal-issues-apology-for-remarks-span-classbankheadlinking-ethnicity-and-cheating-was-wrong-fairfax-leader-saysspan/01cfcf99-d02f-4c11-b68e-e4997cf6d972/?utm_term=.d6ab75351222

Clearly, she grew up in another era where a privileged group had it all, and couldn't accept the improvements made by smart minorities, so she tried to lump everyone together for the mistakes done by a few.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A neighbor whose child graduated from TJ about ten years ago told me that a previous principal was "pushed out" for enforcing consequences for a group of kids who were cheating. At a meeting, she didn't identify the kids but apparently mentioned their ethnic background in passing and ended up retiring early. So, I wonder if that is a reason that the administration hasn't reacted strongly to cheating.

I found these articles that give more background about it:

https://www.washingtonian.com/2006/09/01/thomas-jefferson-high-school-interview-with-principal-elizabeth-lodal/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2006/05/03/va-principal-issues-apology-for-remarks-span-classbankheadlinking-ethnicity-and-cheating-was-wrong-fairfax-leader-saysspan/01cfcf99-d02f-4c11-b68e-e4997cf6d972/?utm_term=.d6ab75351222

It appears the supposed culprits back then were "asian" as in East Asian based on the name of the parent quoted (Korean or Chinese). People claim it's now Indian. Well, duh. If a majority of the students are Korean then it is only fair to expect the majority of the cheaters to be Korean (and now Indian). What's appalling is that nothing has been done about it over the past 10+ years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids at TJ cheat because, if they don't, they'll fall behind the kids who do. And if they get caught there are essentially no consequences - they can stay at TJ and counselors aren't allowed to tell colleges.

My DC, who has done very well at TJ without cheating, was shocked by the stories that were told at the assembly a few months ago. There are people (companies?) which have file cabinets of old TJ tests/problem sets, etc - and, yes, they seem to be shared among kids of the same ethnicity. He had absolutely no idea that was going on, and he came home very angry and upset. He was earning his grades while it seems half the school is cheating to get them.

I'm hopeful that the new principal will stress ethics more than Dr. Glazer, whose main concern is promoting the school, and by extension, himself.

"There are people (companies?) which have file cabinets of old TJ tests/problem sets, etc - " - The whole test prep industry is based on this (old questions as a basis for prep). It's up to the teachers to change them up as often as possible. No way around it. No point getting upset that one group of kids have it. I would not call that cheating. Cheating is copying the answers from another person. If the teachers are too lazy to change questions...

Bottom line, no consequences, no change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a tax payer whose tax monies are being spent on this public schoool, and I believe it should not so test performance oriented, instead it should have more diverse minorities from AA and Latino kids who should be given opportunity to learn STEM topics. Some of these kids did not get the opportunity because of years of social injustice and inequalities, so they may not be the STEM brilliant students that a PP stated, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have opportunity.

Agree. I wish some of the parents who are so full of chagrin on these boards, get moving and get on the school board or some such thing to advocate change. I'll vote for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a tax payer whose tax monies are being spent on this public schoool, and I believe it should not so test performance oriented, instead it should have more diverse minorities from AA and Latino kids who should be given opportunity to learn STEM topics. Some of these kids did not get the opportunity because of years of social injustice and inequalities, so they may not be the STEM brilliant students that a PP stated, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have opportunity.

Agree. I wish some of the parents who are so full of chagrin on these boards, get moving and get on the school board or some such thing to advocate change. I'll vote for them.

you agreed with yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a tax payer whose tax monies are being spent on this public schoool, and I believe it should not so test performance oriented, instead it should have more diverse minorities from AA and Latino kids who should be given opportunity to learn STEM topics. Some of these kids did not get the opportunity because of years of social injustice and inequalities, so they may not be the STEM brilliant students that a PP stated, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have opportunity.

Agree. I wish some of the parents who are so full of chagrin on these boards, get moving and get on the school board or some such thing to advocate change. I'll vote for them.

you agreed with yourself?

What? I just posted the previous 3-4 messages. I'm not the one crying from the rooftops about cheating being a problem. My kid is just entering TJ and reading all this crap, I wish he had decided to stay at base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just make it in Chinese.

The largest portion of Asian kids at TJ are Indian. But congrats on the alt facts.

Plus, this seems designed to make it harder for the Asian test prep contingent, no?

they need to shut TJ. its benefits are only to a few and has become a huge cost. long overdue to stop the entire out of control TJ process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a tax payer whose tax monies are being spent on this public schoool, and I believe it should not so test performance oriented, instead it should have more diverse minorities from AA and Latino kids who should be given opportunity to learn STEM topics. Some of these kids did not get the opportunity because of years of social injustice and inequalities, so they may not be the STEM brilliant students that a PP stated, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have opportunity.

Agree. I wish some of the parents who are so full of chagrin on these boards, get moving and get on the school board or some such thing to advocate change. I'll vote for them.

you agreed with yourself?

What? I just posted the previous 3-4 messages. I'm not the one crying from the rooftops about cheating being a problem. My kid is just entering TJ and reading all this crap, I wish he had decided to stay at base.

Don't worry, I am the PP who you quoted as agree. There are some losers on here who just cannot acccept change happenning around them, much like what is happenning around the country too, they reminisce about an era bygone and wish things remained the same. Make TJ great again: LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should just make it in Chinese.

The largest portion of Asian kids at TJ are Indian. But congrats on the alt facts.

Plus, this seems designed to make it harder for the Asian test prep contingent, no?

they need to shut TJ. its benefits are only to a few and has become a huge cost. long overdue to stop the entire out of control TJ process.

Only thing out of control is the emotional IQ of people like you who cannot accept change. What kind of phobia shall we call it?