Huge changes to TJ admissions test beginning next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are non-TJ parents so definitively claiming there is a culture of cheating at TJ unlike any other high school.

Do you not know that you don't sound credible but sound like you simply have a chip on your shoulder?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes who can't let go their obsession for TJ and move on with their life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: TJ is a public school in a county with over a million people, not a fiefdom run for the exclusive benefit of TJ families.

Unlike most of the other high schools in the county, TJ is open to all students that rank highest for admission, not only those who can afford to live within a particular boundary, even to those outside of the county. It's more public than they are.

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/two-board-knot-zoning-schools-inequality/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

And I'm sure your son and his friends didn't ever stay up late studying once at TJ either. It all was natural I believe kids at TJ take summer school to be able to do things like band. Also, if the kids who have tutors don't hold your natural genius back, why are you so focused on them? To each his own. If they are willing to study their butts off outside of school to keep up, why don't they belong there? As far as I'm concerned as long as you keep up, you belong there. When did the American attitude become that hard work and drive is a negative thing to be frowned on? I always thought Americans prided themselves on the fact that in our country with hard work and dedication you can become anything you want.

But they DON'Tkeep up once they get there-- at least not at a level that satisfies their parents. If you are a TJ parent, you know that number one item on the school improvement plan is cheating. And that for the first 3/4 of the year, there were 90 academic integrity violations-- on place to have 1 kid in every 10 caught cheating. And that is just the kids where cheating was caught and could be substantiated. My DC says 98% of the kids he is aware of with academic integerity violations are Asian, including the massive sophomore class cheating ring that was broken up this year.

So, either these kids can't keep up without cheating, or they can't get the grades their parents expect without cheating. Are you okay with the fact that TJ is admitting kids who apparently need to cheat to manage at TJ? I'm not, They are talking about increased punishments. I hope they crack down hard. Like first strike you get a zero on the assignment. Second strike you funk the class, third strike, you are returned to the base school. It's ridiculous that kids who follow the rules on academic integrity end up at a disadvantage, because so many kids get test questions from peers who take the test earlier, siblings who attends, older TJ students who attend, or kids who sneak out their phone and take a picture of the test during class.

Maybe kids who don't need to prep for admissions will be able to actually do the work without cheating.

Could you direct me to where you found the information about cheating incidents? Of course the school wants to hide that cheating goes on, but as a parent there I've been trying to find concrete data on it for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thumbs up.

Hope they change the testing process/procedures every four years or so, too.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i agree. The prepping is a huge problem with so many of these kids struggling once they get there. It is freeing to know that not prepping won't put you at a disadvantage.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And I'm sure your son and his friends didn't ever stay up late studying once at TJ either. It all was natural I believe kids at TJ take summer school to be able to do things like band. Also, if the kids who have tutors don't hold your natural genius back, why are you so focused on them? To each his own. If they are willing to study their butts off outside of school to keep up, why don't they belong there? As far as I'm concerned as long as you keep up, you belong there. When did the American attitude become that hard work and drive is a negative thing to be frowned on? I always thought Americans prided themselves on the fact that in our country with hard work and dedication you can become anything you want.

But they DON'Tkeep up once they get there-- at least not at a level that satisfies their parents. If you are a TJ parent, you know that number one item on the school improvement plan is cheating. And that for the first 3/4 of the year, there were 90 academic integrity violations-- on place to have 1 kid in every 10 caught cheating. And that is just the kids where cheating was caught and could be substantiated. My DC says 98% of the kids he is aware of with academic integerity violations are Asian, including the massive sophomore class cheating ring that was broken up this year.

So, either these kids can't keep up without cheating, or they can't get the grades their parents expect without cheating. Are you okay with the fact that TJ is admitting kids who apparently need to cheat to manage at TJ? I'm not, They are talking about increased punishments. I hope they crack down hard. Like first strike you get a zero on the assignment. Second strike you funk the class, third strike, you are returned to the base school. It's ridiculous that kids who follow the rules on academic integrity end up at a disadvantage, because so many kids get test questions from peers who take the test earlier, siblings who attends, older TJ students who attend, or kids who sneak out their phone and take a picture of the test during class.

Maybe kids who don't need to prep for admissions will be able to actually do the work without cheating.

Could you direct me to where you found the information about cheating incidents? Of course the school wants to hide that cheating goes on, but as a parent there I've been trying to find concrete data on it for years.

Are you puling these stats out of your *ss? If not, please provide a link. hard to believe that a school (any school) keep tracks of each violation AS WELL as the ethnicity of the violators. My kid is a freshman and he's not heard nor seen any incidents of cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are non-TJ parents so definitively claiming there is a culture of cheating at TJ unlike any other high school.

Do you not know that you don't sound credible but sound like you simply have a chip on your shoulder?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes who can't let go their obsession for TJ and move on with their life!

It's sour grapes soaked in vinegar because (1) they didn't get in and (2) it's mostly asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are non-TJ parents so definitively claiming there is a culture of cheating at TJ unlike any other high school.

Do you not know that you don't sound credible but sound like you simply have a chip on your shoulder?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes who can't let go their obsession for TJ and move on with their life!

It's sour grapes soaked in vinegar because (1) they didn't get in and (2) it's mostly asian.

Can't speak for everyone, but I have a friend who has a child there and she commented that they send a LOT of emails about cheating. She was surprised by the volume on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are non-TJ parents so definitively claiming there is a culture of cheating at TJ unlike any other high school.

Do you not know that you don't sound credible but sound like you simply have a chip on your shoulder?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes who can't let go their obsession for TJ and move on with their life!

It's sour grapes soaked in vinegar because (1) they didn't get in and (2) it's mostly asian.

Can't speak for everyone, but I have a friend who has a child there and she commented that they send a LOT of emails about cheating. She was surprised by the volume on this issue.

Is that some secret e-mail list that other parents (like myself) are not allowed to be on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are non-TJ parents so definitively claiming there is a culture of cheating at TJ unlike any other high school.

Do you not know that you don't sound credible but sound like you simply have a chip on your shoulder?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes who can't let go their obsession for TJ and move on with their life!

It's sour grapes soaked in vinegar because (1) they didn't get in and (2) it's mostly asian.

Can't speak for everyone, but I have a friend who has a child there and she commented that they send a LOT of emails about cheating. She was surprised by the volume on this issue.

Is that some secret e-mail list that other parents (like myself) are not allowed to be on?

Yeah, I'd like to know too. DD is a freshman, and I don't remember receiving communication about cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are non-TJ parents so definitively claiming there is a culture of cheating at TJ unlike any other high school.

Do you not know that you don't sound credible but sound like you simply have a chip on your shoulder?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes who can't let go their obsession for TJ and move on with their life!

It's sour grapes soaked in vinegar because (1) they didn't get in and (2) it's mostly asian.

Can't speak for everyone, but I have a friend who has a child there and she commented that they send a LOT of emails about cheating. She was surprised by the volume on this issue.

Is that some secret e-mail list that other parents (like myself) are not allowed to be on?

Yeah, I'd like to know too. DD is a freshman, and I don't remember receiving communication about cheating.

I have a kid in class of 2020 there were at least a couple significant cheating issues his freshman year—one involving the sophomore class and one involving neurobio, and there was communication about it to parents under Glazer.

This year, I’ve seen zip in the official communications. I think part of it is that the path department made some significant changes— and that is where a lot of the problems were occurring. For Math 4/5 this year, the division wrote the tests, and there were like 6 different versions of each test, so kids could not easily share specific problems. I believe some the sciences were similar. Humanities classes are harder to,cheat because they are so project and essay based. There was also a lot less griping about cheating on TJ vents. So, I’m hopeful they are making strides on this.

But, I also think the new principal has had her hands full with the kid s hating her, the parents being passed off, being legitimately left some messes by Glazer, Andrew being told by the accreditation board that security procedures for the new school must take top priority. So I think cheating also got backburnered this year.

I wish TJ would 3 strikes cheating: strike one, zero one the assignment or drop a letter grade in the class, whichever is lower. Strike 2, F in the class. Strike 3, back to base school. Same punishments for kids who help cheat as kids who benefit. But I’m a hardass. I’ve have told my kid clearly that I did not raise a cheater, and I would rather see the lower grade than the cheating. And that the very first honor code referral will result in his immediate removal to his base school. Lots of his peers parents feel the same way.

I do think it’s a minority who cheat. That often, they are the kids whose parents have unrealistic expectations. And that (flame away, I know this will piss people off) there are a lot of 1st gen Asian kid s at TJ, and in some of these cultures, for some of these kids (NOT ALL, NOT A MINORITY) you do what you need to do to get a leg up, because academic resources are scare in their culture, and the parents don’t really understand why cheating is all that bad. So the pressure is on the kid to succeed, even if it means cheating. And parents even facilitate, by, for example, gathering older siblings or friends older children’s tests and passing them down.

[Anonymous]

^^ sorry. Typos iPhone gads!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are non-TJ parents so definitively claiming there is a culture of cheating at TJ unlike any other high school.

Do you not know that you don't sound credible but sound like you simply have a chip on your shoulder?

Sounds like a case of sour grapes who can't let go their obsession for TJ and move on with their life!

It's sour grapes soaked in vinegar because (1) they didn't get in and (2) it's mostly asian.

Can't speak for everyone, but I have a friend who has a child there and she commented that they send a LOT of emails about cheating. She was surprised by the volume on this issue.

Is that some secret e-mail list that other parents (like myself) are not allowed to be on?

Actually, I assumed the communications were by email. I don't actually know. I know that she had a freshman and she commented on how they (the admin) is constantly talking about cheating and that cheating must be a big problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And I'm sure your son and his friends didn't ever stay up late studying once at TJ either. It all was natural I believe kids at TJ take summer school to be able to do things like band. Also, if the kids who have tutors don't hold your natural genius back, why are you so focused on them? To each his own. If they are willing to study their butts off outside of school to keep up, why don't they belong there? As far as I'm concerned as long as you keep up, you belong there. When did the American attitude become that hard work and drive is a negative thing to be frowned on? I always thought Americans prided themselves on the fact that in our country with hard work and dedication you can become anything you want.

But they DON'Tkeep up once they get there-- at least not at a level that satisfies their parents. If you are a TJ parent, you know that number one item on the school improvement plan is cheating. And that for the first 3/4 of the year, there were 90 academic integrity violations-- on place to have 1 kid in every 10 caught cheating. And that is just the kids where cheating was caught and could be substantiated. My DC says 98% of the kids he is aware of with academic integerity violations are Asian, including the massive sophomore class cheating ring that was broken up this year.

So, either these kids can't keep up without cheating, or they can't get the grades their parents expect without cheating. Are you okay with the fact that TJ is admitting kids who apparently need to cheat to manage at TJ? I'm not, They are talking about increased punishments. I hope they crack down hard. Like first strike you get a zero on the assignment. Second strike you funk the class, third strike, you are returned to the base school. It's ridiculous that kids who follow the rules on academic integrity end up at a disadvantage, because so many kids get test questions from peers who take the test earlier, siblings who attends, older TJ students who attend, or kids who sneak out their phone and take a picture of the test during class.

Maybe kids who don't need to prep for admissions will be able to actually do the work without cheating.

Could you direct me to where you found the information about cheating incidents? Of course the school wants to hide that cheating goes on, but as a parent there I've been trying to find concrete data on it for years.

Are you puling these stats out of your *ss? If not, please provide a link. hard to believe that a school (any school) keep tracks of each violation AS WELL as the ethnicity of the violators. My kid is a freshman and he's not heard nor seen any incidents of cheating.

DP. PP is not pulling these randomly, they were provided to parents every quarter during SY 16-17 (but not this year) as part of the school improvement plan. And the numbers look right. But good luck finding them on the new and “improved” website. It was approaching 100 cases during the end of Q3 that school year. BUT— that is all academic integrity violations, and not broken down by category, so the data is not that useful. Kids get academic integrity referrals for relatively minor things, like being overhead saying a test was “very hard,” with no other specifics or that it had extra credit, or for forgetting to cite a source in a paper with 20 different sources, but clearly not taking credit for the work themselves— all of which are violations, but minor ones. Or, it could be kids who share exact problems from tests with friends, or even try to use an iPhone to take a photo of a test page when a teacher isn’t paying attention. Those are obviously major violations. So just knowing there were 90? Not that useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And I'm sure your son and his friends didn't ever stay up late studying once at TJ either. It all was natural I believe kids at TJ take summer school to be able to do things like band. Also, if the kids who have tutors don't hold your natural genius back, why are you so focused on them? To each his own. If they are willing to study their butts off outside of school to keep up, why don't they belong there? As far as I'm concerned as long as you keep up, you belong there. When did the American attitude become that hard work and drive is a negative thing to be frowned on? I always thought Americans prided themselves on the fact that in our country with hard work and dedication you can become anything you want.

But they DON'Tkeep up once they get there-- at least not at a level that satisfies their parents. If you are a TJ parent, you know that number one item on the school improvement plan is cheating. And that for the first 3/4 of the year, there were 90 academic integrity violations-- on place to have 1 kid in every 10 caught cheating. And that is just the kids where cheating was caught and could be substantiated. My DC says 98% of the kids he is aware of with academic integerity violations are Asian, including the massive sophomore class cheating ring that was broken up this year.

So, either these kids can't keep up without cheating, or they can't get the grades their parents expect without cheating. Are you okay with the fact that TJ is admitting kids who apparently need to cheat to manage at TJ? I'm not, They are talking about increased punishments. I hope they crack down hard. Like first strike you get a zero on the assignment. Second strike you funk the class, third strike, you are returned to the base school. It's ridiculous that kids who follow the rules on academic integrity end up at a disadvantage, because so many kids get test questions from peers who take the test earlier, siblings who attends, older TJ students who attend, or kids who sneak out their phone and take a picture of the test during class.

Maybe kids who don't need to prep for admissions will be able to actually do the work without cheating.

Could you direct me to where you found the information about cheating incidents? Of course the school wants to hide that cheating goes on, but as a parent there I've been trying to find concrete data on it for years.

Are you puling these stats out of your *ss? If not, please provide a link. hard to believe that a school (any school) keep tracks of each violation AS WELL as the ethnicity of the violators. My kid is a freshman and he's not heard nor seen any incidents of cheating.

DP. PP is not pulling these randomly, they were provided to parents every quarter during SY 16-17 (but not this year) as part of the school improvement plan. And the numbers look right. But good luck finding them on the new and “improved” website. It was approaching 100 cases during the end of Q3 that school year. BUT— that is all academic integrity violations, and not broken down by category, so the data is not that useful. Kids get academic integrity referrals for relatively minor things, like being overhead saying a test was “very hard,” with no other specifics or that it had extra credit, or for forgetting to cite a source in a paper with 20 different sources, but clearly not taking credit for the work themselves— all of which are violations, but minor ones. Or, it could be kids who share exact problems from tests with friends, or even try to use an iPhone to take a photo of a test page when a teacher isn’t paying attention. Those are obviously major violations. So just knowing there were 90? Not that useful.

That's clearer. As a freshman parent, I have not received anything on this topic. What pisses me off are the "fact-like" lies that some people share and that takes a life of its own...see the items I highlighted before..