Huge changes to TJ admissions test beginning next year

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, are you saying that teachers do not change their tests from year to year? That would seem very unfair for kids that do not have siblings at TJ. Teachers definitely should release their old tests for students to practice, and they should come up with new ones every year to even out the playing field.

Stop making it the teacher's fault when a kid cheats. Sorry, I keep hearing that as an excuse, and it just doesn't hold water. What about teaching kids integrity and honesty, even when someone offers them test questions from a previous year?

A lot of classes do not lend themselves to writing a completely new test every year. Isn't better to teach kids not to cheat than to tell them that it's the teacher's fault for not creating an entirely new test, even when that is not possible?

Let's not make excuses for kids who are doing wrong. Let's teach them to grow to be adults who are honourable and have integrity, even when (especially when) it would be easy and beneficial to do the wrong thing.

I never said it was the teachers fault. I just think that for classes like math or physics teachers can definitely give different tests every year and let their students see the old tests so they know what kind of problems they can expect. At my college, professors keep their old tests at the library. Any student can check them out and use them as practice. We all knew the problems would be different on the actual test, but the old tests were good to make sure we understood the concepts being tested.

That's fine if a teacher tells the kids to go and look at old tests, but if a teacher doesn't offer that as an option, then kids shouldn't be doing it. Period.

One of my kid's teachers at TJ once told me that students had told her that there were businesses out there that offered to pay kids for telling them as many test questions as they could remember after a test. Sorry, that is wrong, and sends the wrong message to teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, are you saying that teachers do not change their tests from year to year? That would seem very unfair for kids that do not have siblings at TJ. Teachers definitely should release their old tests for students to practice, and they should come up with new ones every year to even out the playing field.

Many teachers do use the same test year after year.

[Anonymous]

For all the people defending extreme prepping , answer the question. Why is the DOCUMENTED cheating so bad? No the rumors of, but the email all TJ parents got this week saying an average of 30 substantiated cases a quarter this year. And if you have kids in the school, you know, and the kids certainly know, the cheating skews very heavily Asian.

So answer the question--- why? Are the kids not able to meet the academic demands of TJ? Are they being told a A is required in all classes and punished if it falls below that? Are you sending a message at home that the ends (top 10%) justify the means, and that anything goes to get to an Ivy? Pressuring your kids so they feel they have no choice? What?

And what are the 120 or so parents who discover their kids cheated doing about it? None, or almost none are pulling them out of TJ. My kid knows we would rather see an honest C than an A based on cheating. And that if he has an academic integrity violation, we will withdraw him the next day and send his butt back to the base school. Because, I am not raising a cheater. But a lot of TJ parents are. Again, about 10% of kids will have a substantiated violation this year. And many more kids are doing it, but not being caught.

And, BTW, the kids in Asian cheating rings are not grades earned through hard work, because Asian kids put so much more effort. Cheating isn't hard work. It's lazy and dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the people defending extreme prepping , answer the question. Why is the DOCUMENTED cheating so bad? No the rumors of, but the email all TJ parents got this week saying an average of 30 substantiated cases a quarter this year. And if you have kids in the school, you know, and the kids certainly know, the cheating skews very heavily Asian.

So answer the question--- why? Are the kids not able to meet the academic demands of TJ? Are they being told a A is required in all classes and punished if it falls below that? Are you sending a message at home that the ends (top 10%) justify the means, and that anything goes to get to an Ivy? Pressuring your kids so they feel they have no choice? What?

And what are the 120 or so parents who discover their kids cheated doing about it? None, or almost none are pulling them out of TJ. My kid knows we would rather see an honest C than an A based on cheating. And that if he has an academic integrity violation, we will withdraw him the next day and send his butt back to the base school. Because, I am not raising a cheater. But a lot of TJ parents are. Again, about 10% of kids will have a substantiated violation this year. And many more kids are doing it, but not being caught.

And, BTW, the kids in Asian cheating rings are not grades earned through hard work, because Asian kids put so much more effort. Cheating isn't hard work. It's lazy and dishonest.

Are you saying prepping=cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

Sure, you'd also love to see everything go back to how it was in 60's, correct? I figure prep is a the pejorative term to address a group of kids who work very hard to make it sound they are somehow not natural. Asian kids and their parents work double hard because of people like you will not give them an equal opportunity if they simply were equal. They have to do 120% in order to be equal, not 100% because of prejudice like this.

Anonymous wrote:Some people can never understand or conveniently ignore that Asian immigrants and their children who have no systemic advantages built in for them will have to work extra hard to simply get equal opportunity. This is the reason for all the extra courses taken, not because they cannot keep up. If they simply kept up with kids with systemic advantages then they will not be considered smart enough. Go figure! that is the irony.

Why do you guys get so defensive? We are not going to stop prepping. They will keep claiming they don't while they secretly do, all the while spouting "my kid is naturally talented, so was his brother, and his cousin, and her sister, and my grandpa.." . Why even bother responding? Nothing said on DCUM is going to change anything about prepping, NOTHING. Remember the proverb "the dogs bark, but the caravan goes on"... Let barking dogs bark...

Why are barking on this forum then?

Mmmm... I'm not the one barkinnng.. like, learn to reeaad.. and, you know, this ain't your forummm.. it's public..

Exactly! This aint your forum either! People can respond however they want.

[Anonymous]

It seems that those who cheat at TJ are all Indians.

[Anonymous]

No, I'm saying that there is a demographic of kids who get into TJ by extreme prepping (which is not cheating). And that there is a huge problem with documented honor code violations among the exact same demographic. So why is that? They can't do the work? They can't accept the B or C? Parents are reinforcing at home that cheating isn't okay? Who so much cheating, and why in the deographic that preps?

Parents of parents of preppers are saying that Asian kids work harder and get in and get good grades on merit. But cheating to get the grades they need to stay at TJ isn't hard work. It's dishonest. As TJ talks about increased sanctions for cheating, I hope they start kicking kids who cheat out. There are plenty of non-cheaters to replace them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems that those who cheat at TJ are all Indians.

Most are. Certainly the huge sophomore cheating ring. Why is this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people can never understand or conveniently ignore that Asian immigrants and their children who have no systemic advantages built in for them will have to work extra hard to simply get equal opportunity. This is the reason for all the extra courses taken, not because they cannot keep up. If they simply kept up with kids with systemic advantages then they will not be considered smart enough. Go figure! that is the irony.

Wait a sec. are you saying it's okay if Asian TJ students cheat on a massive scale because they lack "systematic advantages"? Really? No wonder your kid cheats.

As for "systematic advantages, can I remind you that TJ is 70% Asian? (Although maybe not next year with the new tests). Asian kids are doing fine in TJnadmissions. They are not disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the people defending extreme prepping , answer the question. Why is the DOCUMENTED cheating so bad? No the rumors of, but the email all TJ parents got this week saying an average of 30 substantiated cases a quarter this year. And if you have kids in the school, you know, and the kids certainly know, the cheating skews very heavily Asian.

So answer the question--- why? Are the kids not able to meet the academic demands of TJ? Are they being told a A is required in all classes and punished if it falls below that? Are you sending a message at home that the ends (top 10%) justify the means, and that anything goes to get to an Ivy? Pressuring your kids so they feel they have no choice? What?

And what are the 120 or so parents who discover their kids cheated doing about it? None, or almost none are pulling them out of TJ. My kid knows we would rather see an honest C than an A based on cheating. And that if he has an academic integrity violation, we will withdraw him the next day and send his butt back to the base school. Because, I am not raising a cheater. But a lot of TJ parents are. Again, about 10% of kids will have a substantiated violation this year. And many more kids are doing it, but not being caught.

And, BTW, the kids in Asian cheating rings are not grades earned through hard work, because Asian kids put so much more effort. Cheating isn't hard work. It's lazy and dishonest.

Are you saying prepping=cheating?

I'm not the poster above, but I read the post that she is referring to actual cases of cheating that the school sent home an email about. Not prepping, but cheating while at TJ that the school has adjudicated.

Is it possible that kids who had to super prep to get in might have trouble keeping up once they get there? Sure, that is a possibility. But the post above is referring to actual cheating that the school has uncovered, not equating prepping to get in with cheating.

[Anonymous]

Hypothetical question. What do you think would happen if the school's e-mail about the large number of documented cheating incidents of cheating this year was leaked to the WaPo? Especially in light of the fact that it is the top item on the school improvement plan, yet incidents are up significantly over last year? Snd that there have been no significant consequences to kids who cheat (suspensions, expulsions, given a flunking grade, etc?

This at the number 1 HS in America with a 17% admit rate.

I think it might force TJ to actually crack down on these incidents...

[Anonymous]

Athletes and mathletes/inteletes all prep for the win. Those who do not and lose are plain fools who should not complain but respect the winners. This concept is called sportsmanship!

[Anonymous]

I don't teach math at TJ, but in another FCPS high school. Cheating is rampant everywhere. I space the kids out, put up dividers, give out multiple versions of tests, and watch them like hawks. Phones are not allowed on test days. I've still caught over a dozen cheaters this year (and I have to believe I missed twice as many).

The problem, IMO, is that there is no standardized policy for cheaters,by county or by school. It is up to each department or team at my school to create a policy, and even then if parents push, admin has made me go around and offer retakes for full credit (I.e. No punishment)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people can never understand or conveniently ignore that Asian immigrants and their children who have no systemic advantages built in for them will have to work extra hard to simply get equal opportunity. This is the reason for all the extra courses taken, not because they cannot keep up. If they simply kept up with kids with systemic advantages then they will not be considered smart enough. Go figure! that is the irony.

Wait a sec. are you saying it's okay if Asian TJ students cheat on a massive scale because they lack "systematic advantages"? Really? No wonder your kid cheats.

As for "systematic advantages, can I remind you that TJ is 70% Asian? (Although maybe not next year with the new tests). Asian kids are doing fine in TJnadmissions. They are not disadvantaged.

apparently, you're an idiot who has no reading comprehension or reasoning skills. so typical. where did you receive your education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Athletes and mathletes/inteletes all prep for the win. Those who do not and lose are plain fools who should not complain but respect the winners. This concept is called sportsmanship!

Unless the winners cheat. In which case, they are stripped of their titles and barred from the sport. Lots of the "top" kids at TJ cheat. As a TJ parent who would never let my kid get away with cheating, I don't have to respect cheaters. My kid certainly doesn't.