Huge changes to TJ admissions test beginning next year

[Anonymous]

Info based on the Carson TJ class of 2022 interest meeting yesterday. Plus new info passes on TJ admissions site.

A science / scientific reasoning section added.

Revamped English, with no scrambled paragraphs or logical reasoning.

Both science and math based on ACT Aspire. There are apparently few released examples because the Aspire is only a couple weeks old.

For science and English, some free response questions, instead of all multiple choice.

Must hit percentile benchmarks on all three tests, plus a high math percentile (75%) or very high science percentile (10%). rather than getting a set score.

The Quant-Q, the completely new math section, is a proprietary tests, and there are no released examples. It is supposed to be more math reasoning, and less plug and chug. Includes things like pattern recognition and combinatorics, and "out of the box Algebra" (which means what.

https://www.fcps.edu/node/33869

What jumps out at me is that no more than 1/3 of kids can make it through to semi-finals (25% on math and 10% on science). But, probably closer to 25% or less, because some math kids will have problem on verbal, and there will be significant overlap between the top math and top science scores. So iif 2800 kids apply, only 700-800 are likely to make it through for 480 seats plus 50 waitlist. If you are a semi-finalist, your chances are excellent.

It is going to be even harder for FARMS, AA! HIspanic kids, because the threshold for semi-finals is so high

And, this test is going to be much harder to prep for. Especially in math. Lots of kids who have been prepping for the Pierson test for the last 2 years just lost their advantage.


What say you DCUM? Thumbs up or thumbs down?

[Anonymous]

I like it. It evens out the playing field. I have a kid applying to TJ next year and this will allow him to take the test without feeling the need to prep. If he doesn't make the semifinals , then he would be better off at base HS.

[Anonymous]

i agree. The prepping is a huge problem with so many of these kids struggling once they get there. It is freeing to know that not prepping won't put you at a disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i agree. The prepping is a huge problem with so many of these kids struggling once they get there. It is freeing to know that not prepping won't put you at a disadvantage.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i agree. The prepping is a huge problem with so many of these kids struggling once they get there It is freeing to know that not prepping won't put you at a disadvantage.

And you think it will remain the same? People will figure it out and start prepping soon....

[Anonymous]

Prepping is an overused term on these forums. What exactly is prepping and how much does it help, does anyone know? you cannot make a kid who does not have it in him/her into a TJ finalist. If they are on the edge and need a little bit of help in getting used to the test format or some techniques in how to solve scrambled paragraphs then that works. Many kids who go to prep centers do not make it. In fact only about 10% of those who goes to prep centers actually make it in. These kids will make it in regardless of prepping. But they end up going because if they don't go and then if for some reason they don't get in, then there will be regret it was because you missed some prep. I do not like the whole culture of prep and prep centers. But what to do, some parents will not stop, so everyone goes.

Taking out scrambled para makes it easier in verbal, because that is where most kids miss in english. Logical reasoning is too easy, so getting it away it fine. Scientiffic reasoning is a good addition. At the end of the day, the kids who make it are doing enough reading, writing, math, and interested in academics in a general sense. They wish to go to good colleges and pursue good careers, and regardless of the change in test format, the general nature of the pool admitted will not change, unless they make the criteria non-academic based.

[Anonymous]

The best kind of test is one that can't be studied for in advance.

[Anonymous]

Prepping is a term used by losers who had to find excuses for their failures. They used this term to label certain group of people when they need to 1) find excuses why these people performed better than them and 2) belittle their achievements and abilities so that they can use it in a future propaganda against this group of people.

[Anonymous]

I don't believe there are any tests that can't be prepped for. All the prep schools need are one test sample and they can model very easily.

The testing companies are typically non-profits and don't exactly have rocket scientists writing test material.

Things will be back to the way they are in about 2 years.

Bottom line is, those (kids, parents, kids+parents) who really want to get in and are capable/nearly capable will get in.

[Anonymous]

It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

[Anonymous]

Thumbs up.

Hope they change the testing process/procedures every four years or so, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

And I'm sure your son and his friends didn't ever stay up late studying once at TJ either. It all was natural I believe kids at TJ take summer school to be able to do things like band. Also, if the kids who have tutors don't hold your natural genius back, why are you so focused on them? To each his own. If they are willing to study their butts off outside of school to keep up, why don't they belong there? As far as I'm concerned as long as you keep up, you belong there. When did the American attitude become that hard work and drive is a negative thing to be frowned on? I always thought Americans prided themselves on the fact that in our country with hard work and dedication you can become anything you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Info based on the Carson TJ class of 2022 interest meeting yesterday. Plus new info passes on TJ admissions site.

A science / scientific reasoning section added.

Revamped English, with no scrambled paragraphs or logical reasoning.

Both science and math based on ACT Aspire. There are apparently few released examples because the Aspire is only a couple weeks old.

For science and English, some free response questions, instead of all multiple choice.

Must hit percentile benchmarks on all three tests, plus a high math percentile (75%) or very high science percentile (10%). rather than getting a set score.

The Quant-Q, the completely new math section, is a proprietary tests, and there are no released examples. It is supposed to be more math reasoning, and less plug and chug. Includes things like pattern recognition and combinatorics, and "out of the box Algebra" (which means what.

https://www.fcps.edu/node/33869

What jumps out at me is that no more than 1/3 of kids can make it through to semi-finals (25% on math and 10% on science). But, probably closer to 25% or less, because some math kids will have problem on verbal, and there will be significant overlap between the top math and top science scores. So iif 2800 kids apply, only 700-800 are likely to make it through for 480 seats plus 50 waitlist. If you are a semi-finalist, your chances are excellent.

It is going to be even harder for FARMS, AA! HIspanic kids, because the threshold for semi-finals is so high

And, this test is going to be much harder to prep for. Especially in math. Lots of kids who have been prepping for the Pierson test for the last 2 years just lost their advantage.


What say you DCUM? Thumbs up or thumbs down?

Much better chance than MoCo magnets - almost 10 to 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

And I'm sure your son and his friends didn't ever stay up late studying once at TJ either. It all was natural I believe kids at TJ take summer school to be able to do things like band. Also, if the kids who have tutors don't hold your natural genius back, why are you so focused on them? To each his own. If they are willing to study their butts off outside of school to keep up, why don't they belong there? As far as I'm concerned as long as you keep up, you belong there. When did the American attitude become that hard work and drive is a negative thing to be frowned on? I always thought Americans prided themselves on the fact that in our country with hard work and dedication you can become anything you want.

Hard work is a great thing, but a kid at TJ should not need constant hand holding to keep up with academics. Sorry, kids at TJ should be able to learn without a tutor sitting by his side every evening and taking classes twice, once, off the record, during the summer, and then again during the school year for the grade that goes on the record.

My son and his friends were involved with sports at TJ. Pretty much any kid can be on a team at TJ: you don't have to be a super athlete. He also knew a lot of kids who were involved with theater and journalism groups. However, there were so many kids who couldn't participate in any activity that wasn't directly related to academics because they couldn't keep up unless all their time was spent on academics.

Just think how strong and even more vibrant the TJ community could be if all the kids who wanted to could be involved in a wide variety of activities and could spend time working hard in both the academic and non-academic spheres.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting if they could somehow come up with a test that can't be prepped for. My kid did not prep, but we knew a lot of kids who did prep very extensively during middle school.

Not all, but many of those kids who prepped had to continue that "prep" mindset while they were at TJ. There were kids there who had to have tutors and outside help for a number of courses every year, plus they needed summer school and extra help for that each summer. Some kids privately took summer courses then took the same course during the school year in hopes of getting a better grade.

My kid and other friends of his who did not prep did not need all this outside help and managed to graduate with high GPAs and are at great schools now, most of them majoring in engineering, physics, math, and other STEM fields.

I would love to see what the school would be like if it were populated by kids who hadn't prepped and didn't need outside help to understand their course work.

And I'm sure your son and his friends didn't ever stay up late studying once at TJ either. It all was natural I believe kids at TJ take summer school to be able to do things like band. Also, if the kids who have tutors don't hold your natural genius back, why are you so focused on them? To each his own. If they are willing to study their butts off outside of school to keep up, why don't they belong there? As far as I'm concerned as long as you keep up, you belong there. When did the American attitude become that hard work and drive is a negative thing to be frowned on? I always thought Americans prided themselves on the fact that in our country with hard work and dedication you can become anything you want.

But they DON'Tkeep up once they get there-- at least not at a level that satisfies their parents. If you are a TJ parent, you know that number one item on the school improvement plan is cheating. And that for the first 3/4 of the year, there were 90 academic integrity violations-- on place to have 1 kid in every 10 caught cheating. And that is just the kids where cheating was caught and could be substantiated. My DC says 98% of the kids he is aware of with academic integerity violations are Asian, including the massive sophomore class cheating ring that was broken up this year.

So, either these kids can't keep up without cheating, or they can't get the grades their parents expect without cheating. Are you okay with the fact that TJ is admitting kids who apparently need to cheat to manage at TJ? I'm not, They are talking about increased punishments. I hope they crack down hard. Like first strike you get a zero on the assignment. Second strike you funk the class, third strike, you are returned to the base school. It's ridiculous that kids who follow the rules on academic integrity end up at a disadvantage, because so many kids get test questions from peers who take the test earlier, siblings who attends, older TJ students who attend, or kids who sneak out their phone and take a picture of the test during class.

Maybe kids who don't need to prep for admissions will be able to actually do the work without cheating.