Is being a female attorney the kiss of death for dating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I think lawyer, I think Hillary Clinton or Jan Levinson from the Office (I know she wasn't a lawyer). Cold, calculated, smart as hell, enjoys status and importance.

That's just not what I'm into.

you aren't from around here are you ... I guess I can see how schmos in some rust belt city would think all lawyers are like Jan from the Office, but not DC, NY, or SF.

Rust Belt female attorney here and I can tell you that not all people think that way--neither the majority of men nor the women in the Rust Belt. Please leave your thinly veiled, offhanded insults out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Male lawyer in biglaw here married to a female lawyer who was fed and now SAHM.

The problem for female lawyers is the numbers game. Most women want to date someone of similar educational and financial attainment. If you are a successful female lawyer looking for similar, you have already crossed off 80% of men. Also, few relationships survive law school, so they come out single around age 26 when half or more of the men are married or in serious relationships. Then they hit the dating market competing with women who may be younger and prettier. Add in a hectic schedule and stress. It's a tough combo.

At my firm, there are about 100 partners, 80 male/20 female. Almost all of the male partners are married with children, few of the women partners are (some were married now divorced). The women are attractive, interesting, in shape, and fun (when they have time) but the dating market is brutal for them. I suspect it's not just attorneys but any high hour, high stress, lot's of schooling career.

Anecdotally, I don't see this. I went to a top 5 law school and I know plenty of high-powered women who have husbands and kids (myself included). I do have a good handful of female friends who aren't married or partnered (or don't have kids despite being partnered), but only one of them is a lawyer (not Big Law). And in none of these cases is the reason the "dating market." They all had plenty of dates and boyfriends.

[Anonymous]

The real problem is that what makes a man appealing to a woman, on average, and what makes a woman appealing to a man, on average, is not symmetric.

For men, career success is strongly appealing to potential mates, so their prospects in the dating market improve as they succeed professionally. Often very, very substantially.

Many successful women see this, and expect a similar thing to occur for them. But men don't find professional success in a mate nearly as important a consideration as most women do, so there is often a gap between how a successful woman expects the dating market to react to her success, and how it actually does.

This is often misattributed to men being "threatened" by successful women or being a lawyer as the "kiss of death." Of course some men react in this way, but the real driver is the fact that career success (or lack thereof) is a very marginal consideration in mate selection for most men.

[Anonymous]

I am older and I prefer intelligent, professional woman. Doctors, scientists, and professors are great. It's sometimes difficult in DC to avoid dating attorneys, but I'd like to. Something about going to law school makes women meaner, angrier, more partisan and less feminine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is that what makes a man appealing to a woman, on average, and what makes a woman appealing to a man, on average, is not symmetric.

For men, career success is strongly appealing to potential mates, so their prospects in the dating market improve as they succeed professionally. Often very, very substantially.

Many successful women see this, and expect a similar thing to occur for them. But men don't find professional success in a mate nearly as important a consideration as most women do, so there is often a gap between how a successful woman expects the dating market to react to her success, and how it actually does.

This is often misattributed to men being "threatened" by successful women or being a lawyer as the "kiss of death." Of course some men react in this way, but the real driver is the fact that career success (or lack thereof) is a very marginal consideration in mate selection for most men.

I think it's more complicated than that. Take work hours. Presumably the male partners work just as many hours and are just as wedded to their phones as the female partners. Yet a pp said many of the males partner at the firms are married WITH children while far lower rates for the female partners. The guys here mention dating awesome workaholics female lawyers that had the relationship fizzle due to lack of time. Unless every single male partner is finding their mate before the long work hours start, they are finding women that are willing to put up with his work being a priority. Say what you want but I think it's easier for a guy to find a woman that is willing to make him the center of her world than the other way around. I also remember the thread where a ton of guys that wanted the highly educated, ambitious wife also wanted her to be willing to put that on hold to support his career.

Of the female lawyers I know either they are SAHM, went part-time, or government job or in-house counsel with family friendly hours or they have a husband that does way more than the stereotypical guy and has a career like IT manager or teacher/educator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYS female law school grads is the kiss of death for dating.

I know a married one. She did fine.

I know several married ones and they all did better than fine. None of them practice law anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is that what makes a man appealing to a woman, on average, and what makes a woman appealing to a man, on average, is not symmetric.

For men, career success is strongly appealing to potential mates, so their prospects in the dating market improve as they succeed professionally. Often very, very substantially.

Many successful women see this, and expect a similar thing to occur for them. But men don't find professional success in a mate nearly as important a consideration as most women do, so there is often a gap between how a successful woman expects the dating market to react to her success, and how it actually does.

This is often misattributed to men being "threatened" by successful women or being a lawyer as the "kiss of death." Of course some men react in this way, but the real driver is the fact that career success (or lack thereof) is a very marginal consideration in mate selection for most men.

the wisdom is strong in this one.

[Anonymous]

^true. OP here. I would add that my experience in dealing with female lawyers is that they are equally unforgiving of anotther female. If tou don't meet their definition of female professional success, you are not welcome as a female friend either. Even as a female attorney, their is a caste system as to whether they admire your employer or not. The behavior is quite shameful, but no one takes any shame in it.

[Anonymous]

There

[Anonymous]

Female divorce attorney here. I never had problems getting dates. I'm married now tho.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I'm a married female attorney so it hasn't been that big a problem. I met my husband when I was a junior associate, but I did switch to government in large part because my job did not allow enough time to see him: we'd moved in together but he was home alone. I do know people who feel unable to make room in their schedules for a boyfriend.

I haven't met anybody who says "I don't date attorneys" but I guess I wouldn't have much cause to meet them in that context.

PS, don't date where you work.

Don't follow the last "PS." I dated a few guys st my various jobs and ultimately married one.

This. My present fed job is the first office where I have not had an office relationship. They used to call our section "The Love Boat." We had several marriages. Yes, it can be a problem. We had one engaged couple where on of the two had an affair with another lawyer in the office and that ended that. I'm in a committed relationship and, anyway, our section has changed. I agree with the posters who point out that female lawyers limit themselves to about two percent of the male population, while male lawyers are way more open minded. At one office I worked at, I dated one of the secretaries. But none of the female lawyers ever dated any of the male litigation assistants. It is true that both men and women in Biglaw have it tough. There was one lawyer I was dating, but her hours made it virtually impossible to be sure that she would actually be free for the evening if we planned to see each other. Ultimately I had to end it. Not her fault, but the relationship just never had a chance to grow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^true. OP here. I would add that my experience in dealing with female lawyers is that they are equally unforgiving of anotther female. If you don't meet their definition of female professional success, you are not welcome as a female friend either. Even as another female attorney, their is a caste system as to whether they admire your employer or not. The behavior is quite shameful, but no one takes any shame in it.

Rereading my post^, I realize after all these years that women attorneys are some of the most judgmental people I have ever met. No wonder I didn't date as much as I wanted before I was married. Looking back, I would not have chosen that profession not just for career reasons, but social reasons as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^true. OP here. I would add that my experience in dealing with female lawyers is that they are equally unforgiving of anotther female. If tou don't meet their definition of female professional success, you are not welcome as a female friend either. Even as a female attorney, their is a caste system as to whether they admire your employer or not. The behavior is quite shameful, but no one takes any shame in it.

I have to say this is somewhat true. I have SAHM friends with mom jobs, but yeah, they are not my closest friends. Our worldviews and money/time tradeoffs are just too different.

[Anonymous]

Who are these female attorneys who are having such trouble dating? I work in a litigating section of DOJ and, while better than a law firm, our hours and demands are tough, but most of my unmarried female friend here seem to be able to get dates. I was lucky enough to meet DH through a friend from law school (he's an accountant) so can't speak to the dating market personally .....

[Anonymous]

It really depends on the guy. Older guys in their 50s (my demographic) do seem threatened by my career success. It's all fine and good in theory until they pull up in front of your multi-million dollar house. Doesn't seem to matter if they are blue collar or not. I think younger guys may think it is cool when a woman outearns them. In a way, lawyers and kind of stuck having to date other lawyers in this town.