Ex-Clergy realizing there is no god

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

For you, what part of the cosmos is only explained by faith? Because I have yet to come across anything that is so overly complex that I need some mystical way to explain it.

just think of the sheer unlikelihood of our very existence. It's pretty awe-inspiring.

But I don't think there are any conflicts between science and Christianity as I believe it.

Also, I am always puzzled as to the logic behind atheism. I deeply respect agnostics because I think the big questions are really hard but by its nature, a divine power is hard to affirmatively disprove. it seems like the scientific mind would say "it appears very unlikely, but I can't rule it out." Thus agnosticism.

I feel like atheists are buying into the anti-scientific religious paradigm by allowing them to frame the terms of the discussion.

Dawkins says he's 99% atheist but because he can't disprove God, he (reluctantly) has to call himself agnostic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

It's the quintessential Christian escape hatch. Their God is real and you must believe in him, but there's no proof because it's all faith, which has a much higher value than proof. Why? because Christians' say so with such determination and aplomb.

Nobody, certainly not PP, said *you* must believe.

It's a basic Christian tenet that you must believe in order to receive eternal Salvation. There is no earthly penalty for not believing, but there is an eternal one. It's the work of Christian missionaries -- to save heathens from eternal damnation.

No, no, no. Many Christians, perhaps the majority, think there are many ways to heaven. Are you the one who posted in this thread or another one that Christians are supposedly commanded to martyr themselves? Are you the Jew with "theological training" who has said other incorrect things about what "all Christians" supposedly believe? There's a lot of bad and incorrect information being posted recently by a non-Christian about supposed "basic tenets" and "commandments" in Christianity that really arent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

For you, what part of the cosmos is only explained by faith? Because I have yet to come across anything that is so overly complex that I need some mystical way to explain it.

just think of the sheer unlikelihood of our very existence. It's pretty awe-inspiring.

But I don't think there are any conflicts between science and Christianity as I believe it.

Also, I am always puzzled as to the logic behind atheism. I deeply respect agnostics because I think the big questions are really hard but by its nature, a divine power is hard to affirmatively disprove. it seems like the scientific mind would say "it appears very unlikely, but I can't rule it out." Thus agnosticism.

I feel like atheists are buying into the anti-scientific religious paradigm by allowing them to frame the terms of the discussion.

There are some pretty amazing things in our world, but I don't think a "higher power" is behind any of it. Still pretty cool though. Go, nature!

I grew up in a non-religious home but knew some people who were religious so I wondered if god existed only because some people felt so strongly about it...so I guess I was agnostic until I hit my 20s. Then as I learned more about the world and developed my own independent beliefs, the "possibility" slipped away for me. I never felt the need to absolutely prove or disprove a higher power - it just didn't exist for me. Never really did. And it was never a debate between science v. religion - that's not how I view it at all. Science/nature is just a given. In my mind, religion/higher powers are man-made constructs that meet some needs of some people. Just two different things for me, not opposing forces. Although it seems like for some religious people they explain science away with religion - bizarre.

Anyway, I do think there are some useful things about religion though and I'm exposing my kids to different religions to understand the world a little better. But I don't expect they will need religion or higher power to explain anything "mysterious" about our world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And when they die, they'll realize they were wrong about that.

I thought God forgave all.

He did. He sent His son Jesus Christ to die for your sins. All you need do is put your trust in Jesus for forgiveness and you're good to go. Why is that so hard to accept? We all know we're sinners.

Typical example of a Christian speaking authoritatively with no evidence but full confidence in unverified beliefs.

Why is it hard to accept? Because someone made it up a long time ago and have used it to guilt trip people ever since.

Typical example of atheist disrespect and sweeping claims. Yet some of you will continue to pretend this stuff never happens.

Holy double standard, batman.

Holy hypocrisy to you, batgirl.

99% of the bigotry and flames around here come from atheists. Not from all atheist posters, but from a few here.

We all know this.

Why do you even bother pretending you're so innocent?

Oh, it must be one of those Christian posters who speaks in absolutes and without evidence, making pronouncements like "God is real" or "Salvation is only found through Jesus Christ."

You are confusing posters. I wrote that, but like many Christians I believe there are many ways to God and heaven.

Some people don't believe in God and heaven so wouldn't think there is a way there, so wouldn't *know* this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

For you, what part of the cosmos is only explained by faith? Because I have yet to come across anything that is so overly complex that I need some mystical way to explain it.

just think of the sheer unlikelihood of our very existence. It's pretty awe-inspiring.

But I don't think there are any conflicts between science and Christianity as I believe it.

Also, I am always puzzled as to the logic behind atheism. I deeply respect agnostics because I think the big questions are really hard but by its nature, a divine power is hard to affirmatively disprove. it seems like the scientific mind would say "it appears very unlikely, but I can't rule it out." Thus agnosticism.

I feel like atheists are buying into the anti-scientific religious paradigm by allowing them to frame the terms of the discussion.

Dawkins says he's 99% atheist but because he can't disprove God, he (reluctantly) has to call himself agnostic.

Not true - he calls himself an atheist, with no reluctance. He knows that God, or any other unseen being, can't be disproved.

Atheist simply refers to lack of belief whereas agnostic refers to lack of knowing. Many people who lack belief in God who have thought it through think of themselves as agnostic atheists -- they don't know and they don't believe - though they may choose to call themselves one or the other.

I think some feel "agnostic" is a softer term, or one that suggests that they are still open to belief - and maybe some agnostics think that way. I think some people who call themselves atheists feel more comfortable in their non-belief. But it's all about belief -- not knowing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

It's the quintessential Christian escape hatch. Their God is real and you must believe in him, but there's no proof because it's all faith, which has a much higher value than proof. Why? because Christians' say so with such determination and aplomb.

Nobody, certainly not PP, said *you* must believe.

It's a basic Christian tenet that you must believe in order to receive eternal Salvation. There is no earthly penalty for not believing, but there is an eternal one. It's the work of Christian missionaries -- to save heathens from eternal damnation.

No, no, no. Many Christians, perhaps the majority, think there are many ways to heaven. Are you the one who posted in this thread or another one that Christians are supposedly commanded to martyr themselves? Are you the Jew with "theological training" who has said other incorrect things about what "all Christians" supposedly believe? There's a lot of bad and incorrect information being posted recently by a non-Christian about supposed "basic tenets" and "commandments" in Christianity that really arent.

How do you know that it's a non-Christian saying these things. Christians, believe lots of different things, depending on the denomination. One basic belief, though, is that Christ is the son of god who came to earth as our salvation, for those who believe in him.

[Anonymous]

One only needs to witness the birth of a child to know that there is, indeed, a God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

For you, what part of the cosmos is only explained by faith? Because I have yet to come across anything that is so overly complex that I need some mystical way to explain it.

just think of the sheer unlikelihood of our very existence. It's pretty awe-inspiring.

But I don't think there are any conflicts between science and Christianity as I believe it.

Also, I am always puzzled as to the logic behind atheism. I deeply respect agnostics because I think the big questions are really hard but by its nature, a divine power is hard to affirmatively disprove. it seems like the scientific mind would say "it appears very unlikely, but I can't rule it out." Thus agnosticism.

I feel like atheists are buying into the anti-scientific religious paradigm by allowing them to frame the terms of the discussion.

It sounds like you don't understand what atheism is. Perhaps you got a wrong impression from a religious person who told you that atheists know there is no no god. (Thus making them sound irrational) No one can know about supposed beings that can't be seen, with "god" as an example. Other examples are angels, demons, fairies, etc. Atheists don't believe in these things. Agnostics generally don't either, but agnosticism focuses on lack of knowledge rather than lack of belief.

When I think of the sheer unlikelihood of our existence, I don't immediately leap to "God did it." I think that it's something, like so many other things in the world, that we don't understand yet. Maybe science will someday explain it, the way it has explained so many other things that were once attributed to God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

It's the quintessential Christian escape hatch. Their God is real and you must believe in him, but there's no proof because it's all faith, which has a much higher value than proof. Why? because Christians' say so with such determination and aplomb.

Nobody, certainly not PP, said *you* must believe.

It's a basic Christian tenet that you must believe in order to receive eternal Salvation. There is no earthly penalty for not believing, but there is an eternal one. It's the work of Christian missionaries -- to save heathens from eternal damnation.

No, no, no. Many Christians, perhaps the majority, think there are many ways to heaven. Are you the one who posted in this thread or another one that Christians are supposedly commanded to martyr themselves? Are you the Jew with "theological training" who has said other incorrect things about what "all Christians" supposedly believe? There's a lot of bad and incorrect information being posted recently by a non-Christian about supposed "basic tenets" and "commandments" in Christianity that really arent.

How do you know that it's a non-Christian saying these things. Christians, believe lots of different things, depending on the denomination. One basic belief, though, is that Christ is the son of god who came to earth as our salvation, for those who believe in him.

Easy, the snark about saving the heathens from eternal damnation. No Christian would put it this way (although you wouldn't know that, not being Christian).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One only needs to witness the birth of a child to know that there is, indeed, a God.

You'd think a god could have found a less painful way for humans to come into the world. Also, you'd think God would have made it a lot less dangerous to the life of the mother and baby. It's only since the advent of modern medicine that most mothers and babies survive childbirth.

And now the Zika virus! What was god thinking of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

For you, what part of the cosmos is only explained by faith? Because I have yet to come across anything that is so overly complex that I need some mystical way to explain it.

just think of the sheer unlikelihood of our very existence. It's pretty awe-inspiring.

But I don't think there are any conflicts between science and Christianity as I believe it.

Also, I am always puzzled as to the logic behind atheism. I deeply respect agnostics because I think the big questions are really hard but by its nature, a divine power is hard to affirmatively disprove. it seems like the scientific mind would say "it appears very unlikely, but I can't rule it out." Thus agnosticism.

I feel like atheists are buying into the anti-scientific religious paradigm by allowing them to frame the terms of the discussion.

Dawkins says he's 99% atheist but because he can't disprove God, he (reluctantly) has to call himself agnostic.

Not true - he calls himself an atheist, with no reluctance. He knows that God, or any other unseen being, can't be disproved.

Atheist simply refers to lack of belief whereas agnostic refers to lack of knowing. Many people who lack belief in God who have thought it through think of themselves as agnostic atheists -- they don't know and they don't believe - though they may choose to call themselves one or the other.

I think some feel "agnostic" is a softer term, or one that suggests that they are still open to belief - and maybe some agnostics think that way. I think some people who call themselves atheists feel more comfortable in their non-belief. But it's all about belief -- not knowing.

You're wrong about Dawkins calling himself an atheist: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html

Apparently he called himself agnostic in The God Delusion, too. Being that it's Dawkins, I doubt he was going for a softer term. Rather, if you read the article, it seems to have something to do with intellectual integrity--he is a scientist, after all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

It's the quintessential Christian escape hatch. Their God is real and you must believe in him, but there's no proof because it's all faith, which has a much higher value than proof. Why? because Christians' say so with such determination and aplomb.

Nobody, certainly not PP, said *you* must believe.

It's a basic Christian tenet that you must believe in order to receive eternal Salvation. There is no earthly penalty for not believing, but there is an eternal one. It's the work of Christian missionaries -- to save heathens from eternal damnation.

No, no, no. Many Christians, perhaps the majority, think there are many ways to heaven. Are you the one who posted in this thread or another one that Christians are supposedly commanded to martyr themselves? Are you the Jew with "theological training" who has said other incorrect things about what "all Christians" supposedly believe? There's a lot of bad and incorrect information being posted recently by a non-Christian about supposed "basic tenets" and "commandments" in Christianity that really arent.

How do you know that it's a non-Christian saying these things. Christians, believe lots of different things, depending on the denomination. One basic belief, though, is that Christ is the son of god who came to earth as our salvation, for those who believe in him.

Easy, the snark about saving the heathens from eternal damnation. No Christian would put it this way (although you wouldn't know that, not being Christian).

Many atheists have been Christians and know exactly how some of them talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And when they die, they'll realize they were wrong about that.

I thought God forgave all.

He did. He sent His son Jesus Christ to die for your sins. All you need do is put your trust in Jesus for forgiveness and you're good to go. Why is that so hard to accept? We all know we're sinners.

Typical example of a Christian speaking authoritatively with no evidence but full confidence in unverified beliefs.

Why is it hard to accept? Because someone made it up a long time ago and have used it to guilt trip people ever since.

Typical example of atheist disrespect and sweeping claims. Yet some of you will continue to pretend this stuff never happens.

Holy double standard, batman.

Holy hypocrisy to you, batgirl.

99% of the bigotry and flames around here come from atheists. Not from all atheist posters, but from a few here.

We all know this.

Why do you even bother pretending you're so innocent?

Oh, it must be one of those Christian posters who speaks in absolutes and without evidence, making pronouncements like "God is real" or "Salvation is only found through Jesus Christ."

You are confusing posters. I wrote that, but like many Christians I believe there are many ways to God and heaven.

Some people don't believe in God and heaven so wouldn't think there is a way there, so wouldn't *know* this.

Can we agree, then, that posters who don't *know* much about a religion should refrain from making declarative statements about that religion's requirements, commandments, or beliefs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder why atheists ask for proof of spiritual things. There isn't proof, that is why we call it "faith." If it was proven, faith would be paltry. I am not looking for proof.

They said it best in "oh brother where art thou"...everybody's looking for answers. I don't have any answers for you. I do believe the incredible complexity that is life and space is a manifestation of God, who is infinite. The cosmos only makes sense when you have some faith, because the answers just keep changing as the concept of infinite gets larger and more complex.

It's the quintessential Christian escape hatch. Their God is real and you must believe in him, but there's no proof because it's all faith, which has a much higher value than proof. Why? because Christians' say so with such determination and aplomb.

Nobody, certainly not PP, said *you* must believe.

It's a basic Christian tenet that you must believe in order to receive eternal Salvation. There is no earthly penalty for not believing, but there is an eternal one. It's the work of Christian missionaries -- to save heathens from eternal damnation.

No, no, no. Many Christians, perhaps the majority, think there are many ways to heaven. Are you the one who posted in this thread or another one that Christians are supposedly commanded to martyr themselves? Are you the Jew with "theological training" who has said other incorrect things about what "all Christians" supposedly believe? There's a lot of bad and incorrect information being posted recently by a non-Christian about supposed "basic tenets" and "commandments" in Christianity that really arent.

How do you know that it's a non-Christian saying these things. Christians, believe lots of different things, depending on the denomination. One basic belief, though, is that Christ is the son of god who came to earth as our salvation, for those who believe in him.

Easy, the snark about saving the heathens from eternal damnation. No Christian would put it this way (although you wouldn't know that, not being Christian).

Many atheists have been Christians and know exactly how some of them talk.

But they haven't talked this way since, oh, the British Empire. Stop pretending that was a Christian poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One only needs to witness the birth of a child to know that there is, indeed, a God.

You'd think a god could have found a less painful way for humans to come into the world. Also, you'd think God would have made it a lot less dangerous to the life of the mother and baby. It's only since the advent of modern medicine that most mothers and babies survive childbirth.

And now the Zika virus! What was god thinking of?

If you'd read Genesis 3, you'd have your answer.