Ex-Clergy realizing there is no god

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm clergy, an interfaith Christian minister. I do not agree with the PP's opinion that Satan is "targeting me". I don't believe in a being called Satan at all. It's ridiculous to assume, even if I believed in an evil being, that he would target me over anyone else. You don't get superpowers in seminary. There is no magic associated with being ordained. I'm just a very ordinary person who happens to feel called to ministry. The "devil" has no reason to target me over anyone else.

I think there are many things that could cause a minister to lose faith and decide that there is no god. Unless we spend our entire careers in a church, we are exposed to some really ugly stuff. I've worked in churches but most of my work has been in prison ministry and in Hospice. It's hard to see that stuff day in and day out and not feel conflicted. I have a close friend who works with the homeless population. He has seen child prostitution, sex slavery, drug use, violence, .... everything. We also talk to people who are experiencing crisis' of faith almost every day. And their reasons are often very valid.

Some ministers become atheist. Some leave the faith and then later return. Some decide they are called to a different spiritual path. Some remain where they are and work through their feelings. What we all have in common is a very human response to our experience with the concept of a God. Not all of us are on the same path. I believe regardless of detour, we all get to the same place. To suggest that clergy are somehow special in their spirituality does a disservice to everyone. I am trained to lead a church. I am trained to provide spiritual counseling. I am trained to work with the dying and their families. Those are things I learned in school. I feel called to be of service to others. I feel called to be of service to God. I feel called to ministry. Those are things that I feel. None of that makes me spiritually better or worse than any other human. I just happened to work in ministry.

Faith is highly personal. I can't prove to anyone the existence of God. I know that my life experience has left me certain that a loving God not only exists, but is a part of me. Just as I am a part of him/her. In my quiet time of meditation and prayer, God is as real to me as my own hands. There is no doubt in my mind at all.

I was about to post something like this after shaking my head at the crazy fundie Christians and the selectively-choosing-articles-to-bolster-his-confirmation-bias militant atheist. You, sir/ma'am, are a rare voice of reason, moderation and true spirituality on the Internet.

And you, sir/madam, are a indiscriminate name caller.

+1

Why the hostility?

Why the sensitivity? You guys insult Christians in much worse ways on an hourly basis. And whereas belief is hard to prove, PP's point about OP's confirmation bias is objectively true. Guess you can dish it out but you can't take it....

Dish what out?

Between these comments and the Stalin post there are some hostility towards atheists here this week. Is that common?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And when they die, they'll realize they were wrong about that.

I thought God forgave all.

He did. He sent His son Jesus Christ to die for your sins. All you need do is put your trust in Jesus for forgiveness and you're good to go. Why is that so hard to accept? We all know we're sinners.

Do you have proof?

No, of course not. It's a belief, just like the belief that that Satan is especially interested in tricking clergy or that God loves and protects you or that only Catholics in a state of grace can go to heaven. Not even all Catholics believe that because they can't imagine their good Christian, but non-Catholic friends missing out on heaven. And we don't all believe we're all sinners. Not even all religious people believe that.

People have all kinds of different religious beliefs - no telling which ones are true or not, but it doesn't matter to the person who fervently holds the belief.

We don't all believe we're sinners, but we all know it. Many don't like to face up to it. This is the real reason people reject God.

Or......they just don't believe in god at all. No need to accept or reject something that doesn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm clergy, an interfaith Christian minister. I do not agree with the PP's opinion that Satan is "targeting me". I don't believe in a being called Satan at all. It's ridiculous to assume, even if I believed in an evil being, that he would target me over anyone else. You don't get superpowers in seminary. There is no magic associated with being ordained. I'm just a very ordinary person who happens to feel called to ministry. The "devil" has no reason to target me over anyone else.

I think there are many things that could cause a minister to lose faith and decide that there is no god. Unless we spend our entire careers in a church, we are exposed to some really ugly stuff. I've worked in churches but most of my work has been in prison ministry and in Hospice. It's hard to see that stuff day in and day out and not feel conflicted. I have a close friend who works with the homeless population. He has seen child prostitution, sex slavery, drug use, violence, .... everything. We also talk to people who are experiencing crisis' of faith almost every day. And their reasons are often very valid.

Some ministers become atheist. Some leave the faith and then later return. Some decide they are called to a different spiritual path. Some remain where they are and work through their feelings. What we all have in common is a very human response to our experience with the concept of a God. Not all of us are on the same path. I believe regardless of detour, we all get to the same place. To suggest that clergy are somehow special in their spirituality does a disservice to everyone. I am trained to lead a church. I am trained to provide spiritual counseling. I am trained to work with the dying and their families. Those are things I learned in school. I feel called to be of service to others. I feel called to be of service to God. I feel called to ministry. Those are things that I feel. None of that makes me spiritually better or worse than any other human. I just happened to work in ministry.

Faith is highly personal. I can't prove to anyone the existence of God. I know that my life experience has left me certain that a loving God not only exists, but is a part of me. Just as I am a part of him/her. In my quiet time of meditation and prayer, God is as real to me as my own hands. There is no doubt in my mind at all.

I was about to post something like this after shaking my head at the crazy fundie Christians and the selectively-choosing-articles-to-bolster-his-confirmation-bias militant atheist. You, sir/ma'am, are a rare voice of reason, moderation and true spirituality on the Internet.

And you, sir/madam, are a indiscriminate name caller.

+1

Why the hostility?

Why the sensitivity? You guys insult Christians in much worse ways on an hourly basis. And whereas belief is hard to prove, PP's point about OP's confirmation bias is objectively true. Guess you can dish it out but you can't take it....

Dish what out?

Between these comments and the Stalin post there are some hostility towards atheists here this week. Is that common?

Oh please, stop playing the wide-eyed victim. It's not a good look for a group of DCUMers who are constantly bashing faith in the rudest possible ways. As you know very well.

I'm not the poster above or the Stalin poster.

[Anonymous]

Completely np to this thread.

It's fascinating to me how many people of faith call atheists offensive, name-callers, hostile, bashers, rude, mean spirited, etc... but don't see how they are behaving in the same exact way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Completely np to this thread.

It's fascinating to me how many people of faith call atheists offensive, name-callers, hostile, bashers, rude, mean spirited, etc... but don't see how they are behaving in the same exact way.

We're fed up. There's a long history of atheists derailing religion threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely np to this thread.

It's fascinating to me how many people of faith call atheists offensive, name-callers, hostile, bashers, rude, mean spirited, etc... but don't see how they are behaving in the same exact way.

We're fed up. There's a long history of atheists derailing religion threads.

I think you might need to look in the mirror - because it goes both ways. Treat people how you want to be treated, or you have no right to complain - saying you're "fed up" is an excuse.

But I also don't think you need to be a person of faith to participate in religion posts - posing questions or trying to provoke people to think differently is healthy - being secure in your faith means you don't take everything so personally, even concerning matters of doubt. The ancient philosophers and theologians were much less fragile, in a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely np to this thread.

It's fascinating to me how many people of faith call atheists offensive, name-callers, hostile, bashers, rude, mean spirited, etc... but don't see how they are behaving in the same exact way.

We're fed up. There's a long history of atheists derailing religion threads.

I think you might need to look in the mirror - because it goes both ways. Treat people how you want to be treated, or you have no right to complain - saying you're "fed up" is an excuse.

But I also don't think you need to be a person of faith to participate in religion posts - posing questions or trying to provoke people to think differently is healthy - being secure in your faith means you don't take everything so personally, even concerning matters of doubt. The ancient philosophers and theologians were much less fragile, in a way.

Whoa! It's the atheists on this thread who are whining about their hurt feelings and generally being "fragile", not the people of faith.

Also, being annoyed with years of atheist derailments and petty pot shots has nothing to do with being secure in your faith--these are two different things.

Bonus points for pretending to be oblivious to threads calling organized religion an evil, even as you toss out slurs like "fragile."

[Anonymous]

Some--not all--of the atheists here are bigots, while others are trolls. I see no reason to treat either group with respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Completely np to this thread.

It's fascinating to me how many people of faith call atheists offensive, name-callers, hostile, bashers, rude, mean spirited, etc... but don't see how they are behaving in the same exact way.

We're fed up. There's a long history of atheists derailing religion threads.

I think you might need to look in the mirror - because it goes both ways. Treat people how you want to be treated, or you have no right to complain - saying you're "fed up" is an excuse.

But I also don't think you need to be a person of faith to participate in religion posts - posing questions or trying to provoke people to think differently is healthy - being secure in your faith means you don't take everything so personally, even concerning matters of doubt. The ancient philosophers and theologians were much less fragile, in a way.

Exactly.

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” Matthew 7:12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some--not all--of the atheists here are bigots, while others are trolls. I see no reason to treat either group with respect.

So in your mind, those are the only two types of atheists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some--not all--of the atheists here are bigots, while others are trolls. I see no reason to treat either group with respect.

So in your mind, those are the only two types of atheists?

You missed the part in between the hyphens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some--not all--of the atheists here are bigots, while others are trolls. I see no reason to treat either group with respect.

So in your mind, those are the only two types of atheists?

You missed the part in between the hyphens.

Also the qualifier "here" as in, on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some--not all--of the atheists here are bigots, while others are trolls. I see no reason to treat either group with respect.

So in your mind, those are the only two types of atheists?

You missed the part in between the hyphens.

Sorry, thought the hyphen part was just for the bigots.

How can you tell if a DCUM atheist is a (a) bigot, (b) troll, (c) other? Or do you just disrespect them all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some--not all--of the atheists here are bigots, while others are trolls. I see no reason to treat either group with respect.

Some -- not all -- of the religious people here are bigots, while others are trolls......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And when they die, they'll realize they were wrong about that.

I thought God forgave all.

He did. He sent His son Jesus Christ to die for your sins. All you need do is put your trust in Jesus for forgiveness and you're good to go. Why is that so hard to accept? We all know we're sinners.

Typical example of a Christian speaking authoritatively with no evidence but full confidence in unverified beliefs.

Why is it hard to accept? Because someone made it up a long time ago and have used it to guilt trip people ever since.