Intimacy vs sex-- which is more important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No we don't all expect what we ask for... entitled people expect everything they ask for ... humble people expect very little.

Sex drive and amount of sex that men ask for is not correlated. Plain and simple. You ask for sex because of your expectation not because of your drive.

Consistent over time is an unrealistic expectation... just like expecting that life will never change. That is why couples that adapt well to change are the most successful. Rigid people are not successful in many facets of life, but mostly relationships.

You believe there is a definition of "reasonable"... many men would think 1 time a week with toddlers is reasonable, some men don't think it is reasonable. Sex drive does not determine what a man (or woman) thinks is reasonable. You think X is reasonable.. it is your expectation that is making you unhappy.

You keep going back to sex drive. It has nothing to do with drive, it has to do with expectation. your expectation is that nothing will change after marriage/kids/age/weight gain/stress.... you want nothing to change, yet everything is changing. You can't adapt, your set expectation that are not flexible... you create your own unhappiness.

You are saying your wife has not adapted... she still sleeps in on Saturday and Sundays, naps in the afternoon, stays out late partying with friends, shops the same amount, goes to happy hour the same amount and works out the same amount and sees her friends the same amount and her expectation before marriage are the same...you do the same amount of planing of dates, gifts, etc.

She has adapted, she just has not adapted in the way you want her to change.

Of course not, only an insane person would expect everything after marriage to be exactly the same as before marriage.

Men are not the only ones that are rigid... women get pissy when they realize they might have to work (if they thought they wouldn't) or have less children or any other "expectation" they had before marriage that is unmet.... like men continuing to court them the way they did before marriage.... or put their clothes in the hamper and not next to it or not watch football all day Saturday and Sunday. Expectation....

The dating and courtship process is where relationship needs and expectations are established in all areas.
Sexually, I am not talking about the first few months of "new relationship energy" sex, I mean after you've been together for a good while (and BEFORE marriage), and settled into a steady-state sexual cadence.

I'm not saying that everything remains exactly the same way forever. But I can't think of a single legitimate reason why something so basic as sex would be subject to a major overhaul down the road. Sex is fun/free/healthy/pleasurable, why wouldn't my partner want to find 30 minutes a couple times/week with me?
And if she decides I'm not worth it, what does that say about our relationship?

I am perfectly able to reevaluate my "expectations" for issues which truly are variable outside of my partner's control. But sex doesn't really fit that flexibility criteria. It's a bit like my expectation that my spouse will talk to me with basic respect and dignity: there just isn't a ton of wiggle room there to tolerate large swings down the road, other than my partner no longer really wants to be my spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No we don't all expect what we ask for... entitled people expect everything they ask for ... humble people expect very little.

Sex drive and amount of sex that men ask for is not correlated. Plain and simple. You ask for sex because of your expectation not because of your drive.

Consistent over time is an unrealistic expectation... just like expecting that life will never change. That is why couples that adapt well to change are the most successful. Rigid people are not successful in many facets of life, but mostly relationships.

You believe there is a definition of "reasonable"... many men would think 1 time a week with toddlers is reasonable, some men don't think it is reasonable. Sex drive does not determine what a man (or woman) thinks is reasonable. You think X is reasonable.. it is your expectation that is making you unhappy.

You keep going back to sex drive. It has nothing to do with drive, it has to do with expectation. your expectation is that nothing will change after marriage/kids/age/weight gain/stress.... you want nothing to change, yet everything is changing. You can't adapt, your set expectation that are not flexible... you create your own unhappiness.

You are saying your wife has not adapted... she still sleeps in on Saturday and Sundays, naps in the afternoon, stays out late partying with friends, shops the same amount, goes to happy hour the same amount and works out the same amount and sees her friends the same amount and her expectation before marriage are the same...you do the same amount of planing of dates, gifts, etc.

She has adapted, she just has not adapted in the way you want her to change.

Of course not, only an insane person would expect everything after marriage to be exactly the same as before marriage.

Men are not the only ones that are rigid... women get pissy when they realize they might have to work (if they thought they wouldn't) or have less children or any other "expectation" they had before marriage that is unmet.... like men continuing to court them the way they did before marriage.... or put their clothes in the hamper and not next to it or not watch football all day Saturday and Sunday. Expectation....

The dating and courtship process is where relationship needs and expectations are established in all areas.
Sexually, I am not talking about the first few months of "new relationship energy" sex, I mean after you've been together for a good while (and BEFORE marriage), and settled into a steady-state sexual cadence.

I'm not saying that everything remains exactly the same way forever. But I can't think of a single legitimate reason why something so basic as sex would be subject to a major overhaul down the road. Sex is fun/free/healthy/pleasurable, why wouldn't my partner want to find 30 minutes a couple times/week with me?
And if she decides I'm not worth it, what does that say about our relationship?

I am perfectly able to reevaluate my "expectations" for issues which truly are variable outside of my partner's control. But sex doesn't really fit that flexibility criteria. It's a bit like my expectation that my spouse will talk to me with basic respect and dignity: there just isn't a ton of wiggle room there to tolerate large swings down the road, other than my partner no longer really wants to be my spouse.

Maybe you are making an atmosphere of sex that is not fun/free/healthy/pleasurable, many men do that with the "I will act grumpy until I get it" phenomenon.... aka emotional abuse, or lack of sleep, or down time, or a million other things.

The female viagra pill failed the 1st time because they did not control for mean/controlling/abusive men. It only works in mutually supportive relationships. Being grumpy because you don't get it would be a factor that would make the viagra pill fail for women. Acting like a woman is broken because she does not want to have sex is also considered emotionally abusive.

I think somebody that does not know sex is variable, and if you think women have complete control over this... you don't understand women's bodies/minds/spirits (or people for that matter). Just like men who can't perform for various reasons. Things change, if you really want to talk about biology.

It's interesting you equate having sex with a measurement of how much your wife loves you, this is a key indicator of marriages that will fail.

Adaptable people do try to change a bad situation, then they try to change their perception (this is something I don't think you will ever get), then they try to change their reaction to it.... if they can't they perpetuate suffering.

[Anonymous]

Intimacy, duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Intimacy, duh.

This. All you people who say SEX actually mean INTIMACY because your spouse needs the INTIMACY to have SEX.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you are making an atmosphere of sex that is not fun/free/healthy/pleasurable, many men do that with the "I will act grumpy until I get it" phenomenon.... aka emotional abuse, or lack of sleep, or down time, or a million other things.

The female viagra pill failed the 1st time because they did not control for mean/controlling/abusive men. It only works in mutually supportive relationships. Being grumpy because you don't get it would be a factor that would make the viagra pill fail for women. Acting like a woman is broken because she does not want to have sex is also considered emotionally abusive.

I think somebody that does not know sex is variable, and if you think women have complete control over this... you don't understand women's bodies/minds/spirits (or people for that matter). Just like men who can't perform for various reasons. Things change, if you really want to talk about biology.

It's interesting you equate having sex with a measurement of how much your wife loves you, this is a key indicator of marriages that will fail.

Adaptable people do try to change a bad situation, then they try to change their perception (this is something I don't think you will ever get), then they try to change their reaction to it.... if they can't they perpetuate suffering.

Sex is plenty fun/free/healthy/pleasurable in my bedroom. But I love your circular argument: if I withhold a basic need for long enough for you to naturally react, then I can use your negative reaction as a reason to withhold. What if I stop being a financial provider for my wife, when she starts complaining how our bank account is always empty, should I then blame her grumpiness as the reason I keep my whole paycheck for myself?

Sex need not be (highly) variable. This is 100% a choice that is fully within my partner's control, like the decision to treat one another with basic respect/dignity there is some leeway here but not as much as you seem to be suggesting. And why would a woman want to NOT have sex for any significant period of time? Please give me an example of some legitimate reason. Note that I define "sex" rather broadly, its not just PIV.

"Can't perform" might preclude some sexual activities, but it sounds more like you are saying "won't perform" and I consider that a core relationship problem where I'd expect to see concrete actions (on BOTH sides....) to quickly repair the relationship and resume normal marital relations. So this would be a brief period of active, hard work (on BOTH sides) to mend things, not indefinite waiting around until one person suddenly "feels like" having sex again.

The male viagra pill does NOTHING for a guy's sex drive, because the guys taking viagra have plenty of sex drive but can't get an errection.
So viagra addresses the physical symptom of low penile blood flow.
No female viagra pill is ever possible because women's primary sexual dysfunction is mental (loss of desire) not physical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Intimacy, duh.

This. All you people who say SEX actually mean INTIMACY because your spouse needs the INTIMACY to have SEX.

Unless she was one of the millions of people who ever enjoyed a one-night-stand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Intimacy, duh.

This. All you people who say SEX actually mean INTIMACY because your spouse needs the INTIMACY to have SEX.

Unless she was one of the millions of people who ever enjoyed a one-night-stand.

Actually, the majority of people do not enjoy them.

So....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3901800/Have-regretted-sex-morning-Women-men-feel-negative-emotions-one-night-stand.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Intimacy, duh.

This. All you people who say SEX actually mean INTIMACY because your spouse needs the INTIMACY to have SEX.

Unless she was one of the millions of people who ever enjoyed a one-night-stand.

Actually, the majority of people do not enjoy them.

So....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3901800/Have-regretted-sex-morning-Women-men-feel-negative-emotions-one-night-stand.html

A picture speaks a 1000 words... it's like those last 5 shots at the end of the night... seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Intimacy, duh.

This. All you people who say SEX actually mean INTIMACY because your spouse needs the INTIMACY to have SEX.

Unless she was one of the millions of people who ever enjoyed a one-night-stand.

Actually, the majority of people do not enjoy them.

So....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3901800/Have-regretted-sex-morning-Women-men-feel-negative-emotions-one-night-stand.html

A picture speaks a 1000 words... it's like those last 5 shots at the end of the night... seemed like a good idea at the time.

Yep. And then when you wake up you realize you DIDN'T want intimacy-less sex. Tale as old as time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you are making an atmosphere of sex that is not fun/free/healthy/pleasurable, many men do that with the "I will act grumpy until I get it" phenomenon.... aka emotional abuse, or lack of sleep, or down time, or a million other things.

The female viagra pill failed the 1st time because they did not control for mean/controlling/abusive men. It only works in mutually supportive relationships. Being grumpy because you don't get it would be a factor that would make the viagra pill fail for women. Acting like a woman is broken because she does not want to have sex is also considered emotionally abusive.

I think somebody that does not know sex is variable, and if you think women have complete control over this... you don't understand women's bodies/minds/spirits (or people for that matter). Just like men who can't perform for various reasons. Things change, if you really want to talk about biology.

It's interesting you equate having sex with a measurement of how much your wife loves you, this is a key indicator of marriages that will fail.

Adaptable people do try to change a bad situation, then they try to change their perception (this is something I don't think you will ever get), then they try to change their reaction to it.... if they can't they perpetuate suffering.

Sex is plenty fun/free/healthy/pleasurable in my bedroom. But I love your circular argument: if I withhold a basic need for long enough for you to naturally react, then I can use your negative reaction as a reason to withhold. What if I stop being a financial provider for my wife, when she starts complaining how our bank account is always empty, should I then blame her grumpiness as the reason I keep my whole paycheck for myself?

Sex need not be (highly) variable. This is 100% a choice that is fully within my partner's control, like the decision to treat one another with basic respect/dignity there is some leeway here but not as much as you seem to be suggesting. And why would a woman want to NOT have sex for any significant period of time? Please give me an example of some legitimate reason. Note that I define "sex" rather broadly, its not just PIV.

"Can't perform" might preclude some sexual activities, but it sounds more like you are saying "won't perform" and I consider that a core relationship problem where I'd expect to see concrete actions (on BOTH sides....) to quickly repair the relationship and resume normal marital relations. So this would be a brief period of active, hard work (on BOTH sides) to mend things, not indefinite waiting around until one person suddenly "feels like" having sex again.

The male viagra pill does NOTHING for a guy's sex drive, because the guys taking viagra have plenty of sex drive but can't get an errection.
So viagra addresses the physical symptom of low penile blood flow.
No female viagra pill is ever possible because women's primary sexual dysfunction is mental (loss of desire) not physical.

Women who can enjoy sex and easily and predictably O don't turn down sex. That is also backed up by research... so if you are not getting it, you most likely are not giving her an O easily and predictably or you have turned it into her "responsiblity"... both don't describe free/healthy/fun.

If you wife does not expect any money from you she won't be grumpy when your money is gone... it's her expectation that as a grown adult she needs somebody else's money that makes her unhappy not the fact there is no money.

You have clearly turned your wife into a fee for sex marriage... you have money and she has the booty and she better give it up. You are unhealthy ... it's sad actually. I have empathy for your wife and future lovers.

What planet do you live on... there is a "woman's viagra" pill... there is also a pill that kills the sex life ... it's call "the pill" ... educated yourself

good luck with your very uneducated and rigid view on marriage... your step children are bound to love you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women who can enjoy sex and easily and predictably O don't turn down sex. That is also backed up by research... so if you are not getting it, you most likely are not giving her an O easily and predictably or you have turned it into her "responsiblity"... both don't describe free/healthy/fun.

If you wife does not expect any money from you she won't be grumpy when your money is gone... it's her expectation that as a grown adult she needs somebody else's money that makes her unhappy not the fact there is no money.

You have clearly turned your wife into a fee for sex marriage... you have money and she has the booty and she better give it up. You are unhealthy ... it's sad actually. I have empathy for your wife and future lovers.

What planet do you live on... there is a "woman's viagra" pill... there is also a pill that kills the sex life ... it's call "the pill" ... educated yourself

good luck with your very uneducated and rigid view on marriage... your step children are bound to love you.

As predicted, you raise the "he sucks in bed" argument. I believe my abilities are perfectly fine to "give" her an O easily/predictably. And I'm even OK to call this "my" responsibility (thereby absolving her of doing any work or bringing anything into our sexlife). If I were sexually selfish, or unable/unwilling to ensure her full satisfaction, if she were not enjoying sex, that would have come out a year before the wedding date was ever set, right? And I've not lost any skills, or motivation, over the years.

I just used the bank account example to draw an analogy with your "ooh, he is grumpy therefore I won't have sex with him" concept. Feel free to substitute that with your most important love language. The point being if you mistreat your spouse by choosing not to meet his/her important/legitimate need, don't be surprised when he/she gets grumpy. And it is disingenuous to then use his/her reaction as justification for continued mistreatment.

My marriage is not sex for a fee. You take my bank account example too literally. My marriage, like most good marriages, is both partners working to meet the needs of my spouse, according to HER priorities.

As to female viagra, you've glossed over my point of male Viagra treating a physical symptom whereas, the purported female viagra attempts to treat the mental condition (loss of interest in sex). Google female viagra. You will see that the "little pink pill" Flibanserin is quite controversial in that the benefits are so miniscule versus placebo that the FDA twice rejected this drug, only last year did FDA (reluctantly) approve the drug. So please don't be offended at my skepticism over this drug because I am in the majority. I should have qualified my statement that there will never be an meaningfully effective female viagra. Believe me I hope to be proven wrong on that point!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Intimacy, duh.

This. All you people who say SEX actually mean INTIMACY because your spouse needs the INTIMACY to have SEX.

Unless she was one of the millions of people who ever enjoyed a one-night-stand.

That doesn't count. ONS doesn't need intimacy. But you do with your spouse.

[Anonymous]

Female viagra only failed because they could not account for women not wanting sex due to men being terrible in bed and abusive.

From a pharmaceutical standpoint it is effective, not more effective then men being a good loving and intimate partners.

1) sex has to be good
2) H can't be an ass
3) thrn you can test to see if "the pink pill" works.

Unfortunately many men can't do 1 or 2 hence the study failing, they want to blame their wives and not change themselves.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you know the difference between a want and a need.

Your wife wants more money, she does not need more money and no it would not be okay for her to expect you to "make more money" and withhold affection for more money, or be grumpy... or whatever you do when you don't get you WANTS fulfilled.

It's not a need.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you know the difference between a want and a need.

Your wife wants more money, she does not need more money and no it would not be okay for her to expect you to "make more money" and withhold affection for more money, or be grumpy... or whatever you do when you don't get you WANTS fulfilled.

It's not a need.