3rd grader tickles & calls out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody has said to medicate, PP.

Oh please. OP said that her DS was evaluated and is not ADHD. Many posters have diagnosed him as having ADHD, called him a menace, and clearly expect OP to medicate him so that he will no longer touch his classmates.

Yes, tickling classmates is inappropriate, he should know better, and he shouldn't do it. That's why OP is posting. So far, the responses have mostly been that he must be ADHD.

Oh please, what? You said that many here want her to medicate the kid but I haven't seen anyone suggest that. Some suggest it sounds like ADHD or a fuller eval, but I don't think I saw anyone say, "you should medicate this kid." Nope. Have not seen it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I don't think something is "wrong" with him besides the fact that people make excuses for him. I am most definitely not one of those people. I want to fix this. He's been evaluated recently (7 months ago) and he's find according to school specialists and an outside specialist. I am actually a step mother to him and not his biological mom. I do raise him full time however. I work tirelessly for my children and I need some advice. I need a tactic that will stick. My husband works beside me in following through with consequences so that's no issue. My third grader has this idea in his head that he's cute and everyone wants to hear what he has to say and that people think it's cute when he tickles. I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this. It seems like whenever he is with his grandmother (husbands mother), she is making excuses for him and it's rubbing off on him. For example:

I will talk to him about his calling out in class and his response will be "I just have a lot to say!" Which sounds like my mother in law! What should I do?? Advice?? I've told my husband my concerns but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't seem to be a big deal to him. She's a good grandma.

What made you get the referral before? Was it recommended by the teachers? If there is a psychological or physiological reason for his inability to control his impulses, all the continuity regarding consequences between you and your husband in the world will work. You still sound defensive...though wanting to fix the problem, I don't think you see the likely bigger problem that exists.

OP, what did the evaluation recommend? They should point you in the right direction. You can request a Functional Behavior Assessment. They should design a behavior plan that will help reduce and extinguish these behaviors. Sounds like impulse control issues but by emphasizing positive reinforcement they can help him stop.

Have you read the Kazdin Method? Do so immediately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody has said to medicate, PP.

Oh please. OP said that her DS was evaluated and is not ADHD. Many posters have diagnosed him as having ADHD, called him a menace, and clearly expect OP to medicate him so that he will no longer touch his classmates.

Yes, tickling classmates is inappropriate, he should know better, and he shouldn't do it. That's why OP is posting. So far, the responses have mostly been that he must be ADHD.

He is a menace: "Year after year...he will not keep his hands to himself at school... he won't stop doing it. Additionally, he will not stop calling out in class or correcting other classmates. It's been years of hearing from teachers he lacks self control. He is what an observer would call "a know it all". He thinks he knows better than everyone. He can't get through one day without arguing with or correcting someone."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody has said to medicate, PP.

Oh please. OP said that her DS was evaluated and is not ADHD. Many posters have diagnosed him as having ADHD, called him a menace, and clearly expect OP to medicate him so that he will no longer touch his classmates.

Yes, tickling classmates is inappropriate, he should know better, and he shouldn't do it. That's why OP is posting. So far, the responses have mostly been that he must be ADHD.

He is a menace: "Year after year...he will not keep his hands to himself at school... he won't stop doing it. Additionally, he will not stop calling out in class or correcting other classmates. It's been years of hearing from teachers he lacks self control. He is what an observer would call "a know it all". He thinks he knows better than everyone. He can't get through one day without arguing with or correcting someone."

I'm betting there is one person posting as multiple people here. Can you please go away?

[Anonymous]

Why do you think so? I see a lot of people trying to help OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like your child has sensory processing disorder. Could be a mild version of it but it is definitely tactile and auditory sensory seeking behavior.

http://spdlife.org/symptoms/sensory-seeking.html

There are things you can do to help appease his tactile seeking. Some kids like chewing necklaces, stress balls at their desks, bouncy bands for his feet at his desk, etc...
Kids like this also like cleaning up, sorting, filing, handing things out. Let his teacher encourage those things when he is done classwork instead of sitting at his desk reading.

I would recommend an OT if behaviors do not get better.

This.

OP, many people evaluated for ADD or ADHD do not look for SPD. Your son has major clinical signs of sensory seeking processing disorder. I would recommend he sees an occupational therapist who have more info on PSD than doctors. And the ideas the poster gave above would help, especially the stress ball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like your child has sensory processing disorder. Could be a mild version of it but it is definitely tactile and auditory sensory seeking behavior.

http://spdlife.org/symptoms/sensory-seeking.html

There are things you can do to help appease his tactile seeking. Some kids like chewing necklaces, stress balls at their desks, bouncy bands for his feet at his desk, etc...
Kids like this also like cleaning up, sorting, filing, handing things out. Let his teacher encourage those things when he is done classwork instead of sitting at his desk reading.

I would recommend an OT if behaviors do not get better.

This.

OP, many people evaluated for ADD or ADHD do not look for SPD. Your son has major clinical signs of sensory seeking processing disorder. I would recommend he sees an occupational therapist who have more info on PSD than doctors. And the ideas the poster gave above would help, especially the stress ball.

Don't waste your money on it. Its the trendy thing. Its not a real diagnosis. All OT's do it to justify services. OT's are great for concrete needs from fine motor, handwriting and more but not these concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody has said to medicate, PP.

Oh please. OP said that her DS was evaluated and is not ADHD. Many posters have diagnosed him as having ADHD, called him a menace, and clearly expect OP to medicate him so that he will no longer touch his classmates.

Yes, tickling classmates is inappropriate, he should know better, and he shouldn't do it. That's why OP is posting. So far, the responses have mostly been that he must be ADHD.

He is a menace: "Year after year...he will not keep his hands to himself at school... he won't stop doing it. Additionally, he will not stop calling out in class or correcting other classmates. It's been years of hearing from teachers he lacks self control. He is what an observer would call "a know it all". He thinks he knows better than everyone. He can't get through one day without arguing with or correcting someone."

I'm betting there is one person posting as multiple people here. Can you please go away?

You're wrong.
One definition of menace is a person who causes annoyance. What else do you think his behavior causes? Joy? Neutral feelings? My children have been near kids like this and it is extremely distracting and annoying. In kindergarten, a child sat near mine and always touched her hair. Sounds innocent enough except my child didnt like it. She'd want hairstyles that would try to prevent the touching and worried (a lot) that the touchy kid would "touch [her] again today..." The teachers interventions didn't help, moving the kids apart didn't help that much (she'd touch it at lunch or on the way to get in line). This was the one kid I ask that my child not be placed with on the school forms. My other child had a student in his class when he was i3rd grade who constantly shouted things out. It was very distracting and annoying....hence, a menace. The kid is going to be ostracized in some form or another. The single bolded line above is enough for that. Add unwanted touching to the mix...even more so. Tickling can be a form of control and when done on those who are really ticklish, it can be done cruel especially if not immediately stopped upon being asked to do so.

This is an 8 or 9 year old. He knows he shouldn't do these things but can't help doing so. That's why some posters are thinking there is some impulse control issue going on. This isn't grandma's fault. This isn't how school anxiety would manifest itself. What have his teachers said? Have recent ones recommended an evaluation? What are the teachers saying to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I don't think something is "wrong" with him besides the fact that people make excuses for him. I am most definitely not one of those people. I want to fix this. He's been evaluated recently (7 months ago) and he's find according to school specialists and an outside specialist. I am actually a step mother to him and not his biological mom. I do raise him full time however. I work tirelessly for my children and I need some advice. I need a tactic that will stick. My husband works beside me in following through with consequences so that's no issue. My third grader has this idea in his head that he's cute and everyone wants to hear what he has to say and that people think it's cute when he tickles. I couldn't sleep last night thinking about this. It seems like whenever he is with his grandmother (husbands mother), she is making excuses for him and it's rubbing off on him. For example:

I will talk to him about his calling out in class and his response will be "I just have a lot to say!" Which sounds like my mother in law! What should I do?? Advice?? I've told my husband my concerns but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't seem to be a big deal to him. She's a good grandma.

Oh no, I think I recognize you. The one who thinks your stepson has special needs that nobody else in the family including mom will validate or acknowledge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like your child has sensory processing disorder. Could be a mild version of it but it is definitely tactile and auditory sensory seeking behavior.

http://spdlife.org/symptoms/sensory-seeking.html

There are things you can do to help appease his tactile seeking. Some kids like chewing necklaces, stress balls at their desks, bouncy bands for his feet at his desk, etc...
Kids like this also like cleaning up, sorting, filing, handing things out. Let his teacher encourage those things when he is done classwork instead of sitting at his desk reading.

I would recommend an OT if behaviors do not get better.

This.

OP, many people evaluated for ADD or ADHD do not look for SPD. Your son has major clinical signs of sensory seeking processing disorder. I would recommend he sees an occupational therapist who have more info on PSD than doctors. And the ideas the poster gave above would help, especially the stress ball.

Don't waste your money on it. Its the trendy thing. Its not a real diagnosis. All OT's do it to justify services. OT's are great for concrete needs from fine motor, handwriting and more but not these concerns.

Agreed! The diagnosis is not helpful. Many children are diagnosed with this and then miss real treatment for real disorders. It isn't in the DSM and the American Academy of Pediatrics has come out against it.

[Anonymous]

Why would these "symptoms" only come out in school and not anywhere else in life? Tickling isn't major signs of anything by itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would these "symptoms" only come out in school and not anywhere else in life? Tickling isn't major signs of anything by itself.

Its clearly a school issue and its either not a good school or teacher fit. Something more is going on if he can control it at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would these "symptoms" only come out in school and not anywhere else in life? Tickling isn't major signs of anything by itself.

Its clearly a school issue and its either not a good school or teacher fit. Something more is going on if he can control it at home.

PP who has BTDT. I wonder if it's that his family doesn't notice it or is not bothered by it so they don't realize that he's doing it. It's not necessarily inappropriate to do within your family.

[Anonymous]

If this were my kid, and I was sure it was behavioral... for the tickling, every time, he needs to be isolated. It is not ok to put your hands on someone else without their consent. When is he doing it? If it's while standing in line, then he needs to have things in his hands while standing in line so he can't tickle other kids. If it's at recess, then he can walk laps and stay away from the other kids for the rest of recess once he does it. There is no benefit, it is hammered in that if he tickles, he is not going to be having fun (since he doesn't seem to grasp that other people's feelings matter).

For shouting out, he'd get 3 coins. Every time he shouted out, he'd lose a coin. At the end of the day, he'd get a bonus of some sort for any coins he had left. Increase that to needing some number of coins at the end of a week, then gradually increase the needed number of coins, and fade it out. If he writes well, give him a notebook and let him write down all his thoughts in it. He might be worried he's going to forget something important if he doesn't say it immediately.

These approaches all require working with the teacher. But I also suggest you consider if he's not being handsy inappropriately in life outside of school. He's not hugging everyone? Sitting on laps all the time? Resting against people? I'd be surprised if he's not getting his touching needs met in some way. If he is, you might want to set up approved touching activities. Start giving each other a big hug when you see him after school, and go through a formal ask-and-accept before doing it. Play wrestling or other active, physical things can help kids who need physical contact. Swimming was amazing for one of my children.

I'd also look to see other areas where he might be calling out at home. Does he interrupt? If you're on the phone and he needs you, does he wait? What about when you and your spouse are talking? It would surprise me if he's the model of restraint at home and only shouts out at school. You can use the same token method for interrupting at home and it should help him at school as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If this were my kid, and I was sure it was behavioral... for the tickling, every time, he needs to be isolated. It is not ok to put your hands on someone else without their consent. When is he doing it? If it's while standing in line, then he needs to have things in his hands while standing in line so he can't tickle other kids. If it's at recess, then he can walk laps and stay away from the other kids for the rest of recess once he does it. There is no benefit, it is hammered in that if he tickles, he is not going to be having fun (since he doesn't seem to grasp that other people's feelings matter).

For shouting out, he'd get 3 coins. Every time he shouted out, he'd lose a coin. At the end of the day, he'd get a bonus of some sort for any coins he had left. Increase that to needing some number of coins at the end of a week, then gradually increase the needed number of coins, and fade it out. If he writes well, give him a notebook and let him write down all his thoughts in it. He might be worried he's going to forget something important if he doesn't say it immediately.

These approaches all require working with the teacher. But I also suggest you consider if he's not being handsy inappropriately in life outside of school. He's not hugging everyone? Sitting on laps all the time? Resting against people? I'd be surprised if he's not getting his touching needs met in some way. If he is, you might want to set up approved touching activities. Start giving each other a big hug when you see him after school, and go through a formal ask-and-accept before doing it. Play wrestling or other active, physical things can help kids who need physical contact. Swimming was amazing for one of my children.

I'd also look to see other areas where he might be calling out at home. Does he interrupt? If you're on the phone and he needs you, does he wait? What about when you and your spouse are talking? It would surprise me if he's the model of restraint at home and only shouts out at school. You can use the same token method for interrupting at home and it should help him at school as well.

OP here. Great response, Thank you.

Today is the first day at school since the incident where we have laid out black and white rules about touching classmates. He seems to do it at recess according to an email I got from his teacher and not in class. He calls out so he can be the first to be correct or he will call out to correct someone. I don't think it's a "problem" in the clinical sense. I truly believe he just feels the need to be right. I'm not a professional or anything and maybe there IS another reason. He does not interrupt anyone at home but is frustrated if classmates are playing a game the "RIGHT WAY" or they aren't doing an assignment the "RIGHT WAY". I've repeatedly (until I'm blue in the face) told him to worry about himself and no one else in regards to correcting others. He comes in with "well actually..." a lot because he thinks he knows best. He's 8! He has a lot of learning to do. He just thinks he knows it all, lol.

In regards to touching at home, he loves to get and give hugs. When was younger, he used to try to sit on people or lay on them without asking and I corrected it by saying that others might not be comfortable with it and you need to ask..which he does generally.