Daughter got in a fight at school - how to help her defend herself next time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't have "lots of extra money" since I'm just a public school teacher, but hey, it's your kid. I just don't ever want to tell my child that I could have tried something else to keep you safe, but I didn't want to lose any money.

Or, more accurately, "I could have tried something that probably wouldn't have worked, and would certainly have had a major effect on the whole family's financial security, but I decided instead to try something that had a greater chance of success."

Like I said, it's your kid. People are allowed to have different priorities.

How sweet of you to imply that, unless OP is willing to throw away large sums of money on something that won't (according to you) work anyway, OP's child is not OP's priority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You may have to do this. I teach for MCPS and have very, very little confidence it the ability of the system to stop bullying once it has escalated to physical attacks. Worse, with social media, the bullying often follows the targeted child to the new school.

Shorter PP: You should take a major loss on your house for something that probably won't work anyway.

Really?

Well, I value my kid's physical safety and mental health more than money, so yeah. Doesn't everyone?

Not everybody has lots of extra money to throw down a hole -- which is what this would be, according to the top PP. If I'm going to spend a big chunk of my household net worth on something, I want it be something that has a good chance of actually being effective.

I don't have "lots of extra money" since I'm just a public school teacher, but hey, it's your kid. I just don't ever want to tell my child that I could have tried something else to keep you safe, but I didn't want to lose any money.

OP here - I would consider private or religious school before going thru a move. At least with a religious school, it would be cheaper and I can stay where I am. At this point, I want her to reach a state where she isn't a target. A new school isn't a guarantee.

Have you looked at Catholic schools? There might be some that would take her mid-year if they have room, particularly given the circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Nobody gets bullied at Catholic schools?

[Anonymous]

Is homeschooling for the rest of the year an option while you sort out choices for fall?

[Anonymous]

Lie down and take it. Seriously. Usually even the kids who throw punches in self defense also get suspended or at least ISR.

[Anonymous]

OP, if you're still here -- here's a question that I don't think anybody has asked on this thread.

What does your daughter want?

[Anonymous]

OP I'm really sad to see all of the armchair tough guys on this thread giving you impractical and useless advice. I was in a situation not unlike your daughter's in middle school. My parents moved, and I changed from a nice suburban school to an awful urban rustbelt school in the middle of seventh grade. I was physically bullied a lot. Here are some thoughts:

Learning to defend yourself against bullies is hard, but what you may not know is that it can cause as many problems as it solves. When I was in your daughter's place, I spent a couple of years teaching myself to fight at the slightest provocation (developing the "will" that PPs talk about). I practiced hitting and getting hit by my older brother every day (getting loose teeth, bloody noses, bruises and the occasional black eye), and I lifted weights daily from 7th grade through high school.

This worked to some extent --- I got left alone more than my best friend (who was also bullied), but after I fought back against one bully, I was attacked the next time by two. When this happened, they were caught and kicked out of the school building. The teacher who caught them urged me to call the police. Instead, I went outside to meet them to continue the fight because I was so screwed up by the environment that I thought I had to. My willingness to take a beating (and I got one) only meant that I was no longer attacked or casually punched one on one, but this group of kids would still bully me as a group.

In high school things were better because I was an athlete and friends with the football, basketball and wrestling team members, but those experiences never really left me. Years later, a buddy and I were randomly attacked in a college bar by a group of guys who were looking for a fight, and after bouncers threw them out, I followed my attackers to another bar to continue fighting. Today that seems insane to me. Immediately after that attack, I started studying martial arts and spent the next 6 years working out at MA 3 times a day every day (to the detriment of my social life and studies/career). I ended up in a crazy full-contact mixed martial arts dojo full of cops and prison guards where I was the only guy who did not carry a gun in my gym bag. I retrospect, I needed therapy, not all that craziness, but I was afraid and I felt like I somehow needed to prove that I was tough.

I also spent many years hating myself for every time that I did _not_ physically fight in the wake of every perceived slight -- at a company picnic when an acquaintance teased me for missing a volleyball spike, against a couple of teenagers who almost hit my toddler with a football, against a girlfriend when she punched me in anger. I always needed to prove to myself that I was tough and would not be a victim again, and that was a really unhappy way to live.

Get your daughter out of that school now. Homeschool if you have to. Get her therapy or at least get some books on this.

Wrestling with your daughter will not help. Aikido will not help. Boxing will not help (most people break bones in their hand when they hit without gloves). Karate will not help, nor will tae kwon do. "Self defense" classes are a joke. Most people who teach them have never been in a fight. You need to be an adult and confront this, not do unproductive things like wrestling with your daughter.

If she must stay at this school, find an IMPACT course --- short term self defense classes primarily directed toward rape survivors. Students are attacked by a large man in full pads who is screaming at the top of his voice and learn to whale on him with everything they've got. Students have broken bones and had other injuries, but that's how you learn to fight -- any training that is not full contact is nothing.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

My daughter doesn't want to fight. She just wants to be left alone and we are trying to figure out why she is being targeted. FWIW, she isn't the only one who is being picked on. There are other kids who are being teased, shoved, etc. but so far, just my kid reached the fight stage. Neither of us thinks that fighting will ultimately solve the problem - the instigators come from rough environments and they will not handle being beaten by someone like my kid very well. It could get real ugly. I did contact the school today via email but have not heard back yet. And, my daughter laid low and managed to avoid any issues today.

I am actually feeling a little bit of hope with a close-by religious school. The cost is reasonable and they offer financial aid. I still think it is very unfair that it is us that have to leave and not the instigators so I will have to see what the principal says in terms of offering protection. Thanks everyone.

[Anonymous]

OP, let us know how it goes. We are pulling for you and your DD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, let us know how it goes. We are pulling for you and your DD.

+1

[Anonymous]

I am curious - after the fight why didn't you call the police and make a complaint? You don't need the school to do this on your behalf you can do it and should.

[Anonymous]

If your daughter wants to stay at the school and lie low, I hope that you can figure out how to make that happen. Start with the bullying form, and follow up with the principal. There might not be physical fights at the nearby religious school, but there will almost certainly be bullying there as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I'm really sad to see all of the armchair tough guys on this thread giving you impractical and useless advice. I was in a situation not unlike your daughter's in middle school. My parents moved, and I changed from a nice suburban school to an awful urban rustbelt school in the middle of seventh grade. I was physically bullied a lot. Here are some thoughts:

It's interesting, because I find your advice impractical and useless as well. OP's daughter is highly unlikely to go down the tough-guy macho manly rabbit hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

My daughter doesn't want to fight. She just wants to be left alone and we are trying to figure out why she is being targeted. FWIW, she isn't the only one who is being picked on. There are other kids who are being teased, shoved, etc. but so far, just my kid reached the fight stage. Neither of us thinks that fighting will ultimately solve the problem - the instigators come from rough environments and they will not handle being beaten by someone like my kid very well. It could get real ugly. I did contact the school today via email but have not heard back yet. And, my daughter laid low and managed to avoid any issues today.

I am actually feeling a little bit of hope with a close-by religious school. The cost is reasonable and they offer financial aid. I still think it is very unfair that it is us that have to leave and not the instigators so I will have to see what the principal says in terms of offering protection. Thanks everyone.

Just go to you local Catholic School (there are 52 in ADW, there are probably a few near you). Ask to meet with the principal. Tell them your daughter was physically attacked at school and you need a place for her to feel safe.

My friends daughter got a COSA but it was not much better.

I have never heard of a physical fight in any of the Catholic schools in the ADW... mean girls are everywhere and she needs to learn to deal with that but being physically attacked is not okay.

If you care ... you can get a lawyer and get the county to pay for the school but it will probably cost you more for a lawyer.

The victim should not have to leave but often that is what happens.

I still think you should do Juijitsu, it will not teach her to fight really, it will teach her how to defend and get away. She may need it some day (college).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I'm really sad to see all of the armchair tough guys on this thread giving you impractical and useless advice. I was in a situation not unlike your daughter's in middle school. My parents moved, and I changed from a nice suburban school to an awful urban rustbelt school in the middle of seventh grade. I was physically bullied a lot. Here are some thoughts:

It's interesting, because I find your advice impractical and useless as well. OP's daughter is highly unlikely to go down the tough-guy macho manly rabbit hole.

You're absolutely right. i (over) shared my experience to try to make the point that bullying is a big deal and the effects go on after the actual day-to-day violence has stopped. I'm sure OP's daughter's reaction and subsequent life trajectory will be different, but these things have a lasting impact, even into adulthood.

I'm trying to motivate OP to do what my parents never did --- to take this seriously and take serious action (changing schools, therapy, police). Instead of actually DOING something, my mom gave me dumb advice that made her feel like she was helping and let her avoid doing any actual hard work. Our relationship never recovered from that, BTW, and I moved out when I was 18 and never looked back.

Which advice was impractical and useless, specifically? Getting therapy? Changing schools? Finding a real self defense program aimed at women and girls (IMPACT)? Why are those things a bad idea? I'm curious to hear your ideas and knowledge and life experience that they are based on.