Daughter got in a fight at school - how to help her defend herself next time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good swift key to the inside of the knee will fell an opponent and very likely result in a torn ACL. Teach her how to do that.

...would very likely result in a torn ACL and a suspension. Why would this be a good idea?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1. CHANGE SCHOOLS. Stop thinking it's impossible and start searching for ways it is possible. I have a sensitive kid. No way would she just pop someone out of anger! that is so unrealistic. I feel so bad for your girl (and you, I know it's a hard thing for a mom to deal with)

You stupid twit. No one is talking about having an emotional reaction (anger) and response (hitting). The reason you take classes/courses and practice is so that you do NOT have an emotional reaction. You have a considered and practiced response.

OP here - uncalled for response, especially on a post about bullying.

To an earlier poster - yes, the kids in question are from the low income housing development and that really shouldn't matter except a lot of them have behavioral problems. It is a topic discussed in PTA meetings and has unfortunately resulted in a separation from kids that come from the elementary school in that area vs the one my daughter attended. Also - the amount of bullying seems low, but these are reported cases. here are kids who don't report because they fear repercussions - again - a major topic at the PTA meetings which is quite sad considering most PTA meetings are about planning school fairs, budget, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
To OP, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this earlier, but you do know that if your daughter defends herself, unfortunately, SHE could end up tangled in accusations that she's a bully as well, or that she assaulted someone. Should that happen? No, of course not. Could it happen? Yes. My friend's son was badly bullied physically over a long time, and wouldn't fight back; he eventually did fight back and ended up getting the same discipline for fighting as the boys who started it. I know the kids involved and know what happened, and the school's reaction was basically, "Everyone threw punches, everyone's at equal fault." That's how schools will handle this stuff.

It also sends your daughter a sad signal that she has to have self-defense classes just to exercise her basic right to attend school. If you really can picture your daughter embracing the idea of boxing lessons, go for it, but from what you describe here, it sounds as if she might balk at the idea. Does she want to learn defense techniques or does the idea scare her even more or make her feel she'll become more of a target? Where is she, on this idea of martial arts or boxing lessons?

I'd take the energy and time you would spend on finding her lessons and spend it instead on hounding the school like hell, keeping documentation and being That Parent who is in their faces about dealing with this. I would absolutely tell the school that you are going to involve the police and charges, if another finger gets laid on her (and then have the guts to DO it if that happens). Take the money you'd spend on martial arts classes and put it aside in case you do get a lawyer. And at the same time, start looking at how to change schools if it comes to that -- you got solid advice on that, in posts above.

I like this idea. My daughter is on board with self defense classes but I warned her, it will take months or years of practice to get to a level where she can protect herself. And what if several kids attack her at once? The more I think about it, the less I like the idea. I will definitely involve the police the next time this happens. Thanks for this post.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps it would take her awhile to learn all the right moves but self defense classes would give her confidence. She needs that.

[Anonymous]

There's a bit of a misrepresentation here: bussing in the way it is expressed here (unintentionally, no doubt) does not occur in MCPS. The kids from the low income housing area are entitled to bus service because of their distance from BCMS. This service would be available to any child regardless of income who lives that distance or further away. There is no program of corrective busing in MoCo. Sometimes school zones are gerrymandered as a corrective action, but just as many zones have been manipulated to create schools drawing artificially affluent populations.

[Anonymous]

Some assorted thoughts:

Going to a new school may or may not help. I think that every school has bullies and they seek out the vulnerable. On the other hand, different schools have different cultures and a change of school can provide a fresh start. My daughter had an absolutely horrible 3rd grade year to the point that other parents were calling me because their kids were so upset at what they saw happening. (I'm incredibly grateful to them because I wouldn't have known otherwise.) We worked with the school, documented EVERYTHING, and got it under control but it was still bad. The next year she went to a different school for a different program and while she wasn't Miss Popularity, the targeting was over. After we left I heard from other parents that the bullies had turned on their kids. Basically, I think there was a bad dynamic at work at that school, in that grade and the bullies were feeding off each other.

As for the possibility of switching schools it has been my experience that when dealing with MCPS there is official policy and there are the individual agreements that can be worked out with if you can find somebody willing to be reasonable. Keeping your daughter safe is reasonable and necessary. If their choices are transferring your daughter to a different school or facing a lawsuit over your child's injuries that come from them not stopping the violence that you report, they may think that a transfer seems reasonable. Keep in mind that MCPS has a heavy hitting legal team and is more than happy to engage in litigation as I've heard from parents of special needs kids. Perhaps you could threaten media attention. I would report it to the school and see what they recommend to protect your daughter. If they can solve the problem - great. If they can't here's the link for Change Of School Assignment (COSA).

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/transfers/

Perhaps they could be persuaded that your daughter's case qualified as "documented, unique hardship". The good news is we're coming up on the season for the request. The bad news is I think it's supposed to go into affect the following school year. This may be a case where reason confronts policy.

Also, you will note that the page specifically says the family is responsible for transportation to the new school in such cases. You may be stuck. On the other hand, keep in mind that every school has transportation to a magnet program. I am not suggesting that they would put your child in the magnet program, but you might be able to argue for them providing transportation to the magnet school where your kid could be in the regular program. After all, magnet kids need the magnet because it's the only way for them to get an appropriate education (one with adequate challenge). Your child may need the school if it's the only way for her to get an appropriate education (one without physical assault). This would fall under the realm of reasonable arrangement. I wouldn't expect them to change their official policy.

Such a path would mean that depending on where you live your kid might be bussed across the county and would be the only non magnet rider on the magnet bus. (There may be kids going to multiple magnet schools sharing the bus, but they're all in the magnet programs). While I doubt they would actively shun her, they wouldn't have the shared experience to bond over. Also coming in at the middle of the year as a new kid, she would be an anomaly which might be hard for a sensitive, quiet child to overcome.

Switching schools is never easy under the best of circumstances, which this isn't. If your local school can't fix the problem, which I hope they can, I'd talk with your daughter before you do something as drastic as switching schools. Ultimately, though, you have to do whatever it takes to keep your daughter safe.

Best of luck for both you and your daughter as you go through this. My heart goes out to you.

[Anonymous]

Are students supposed to call the police while school is in session? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some assorted thoughts:

Going to a new school may or may not help. I think that every school has bullies and they seek out the vulnerable. On the other hand, different schools have different cultures and a change of school can provide a fresh start. My daughter had an absolutely horrible 3rd grade year to the point that other parents were calling me because their kids were so upset at what they saw happening. (I'm incredibly grateful to them because I wouldn't have known otherwise.) We worked with the school, documented EVERYTHING, and got it under control but it was still bad. The next year she went to a different school for a different program and while she wasn't Miss Popularity, the targeting was over. After we left I heard from other parents that the bullies had turned on their kids. Basically, I think there was a bad dynamic at work at that school, in that grade and the bullies were feeding off each other.

As for the possibility of switching schools it has been my experience that when dealing with MCPS there is official policy and there are the individual agreements that can be worked out with if you can find somebody willing to be reasonable. Keeping your daughter safe is reasonable and necessary. If their choices are transferring your daughter to a different school or facing a lawsuit over your child's injuries that come from them not stopping the violence that you report, they may think that a transfer seems reasonable. Keep in mind that MCPS has a heavy hitting legal team and is more than happy to engage in litigation as I've heard from parents of special needs kids. Perhaps you could threaten media attention. I would report it to the school and see what they recommend to protect your daughter. If they can solve the problem - great. If they can't here's the link for Change Of School Assignment (COSA).

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/transfers/

Perhaps they could be persuaded that your daughter's case qualified as "documented, unique hardship". The good news is we're coming up on the season for the request. The bad news is I think it's supposed to go into affect the following school year. This may be a case where reason confronts policy.

Also, you will note that the page specifically says the family is responsible for transportation to the new school in such cases. You may be stuck. On the other hand, keep in mind that every school has transportation to a magnet program. I am not suggesting that they would put your child in the magnet program, but you might be able to argue for them providing transportation to the magnet school where your kid could be in the regular program. After all, magnet kids need the magnet because it's the only way for them to get an appropriate education (one with adequate challenge). Your child may need the school if it's the only way for her to get an appropriate education (one without physical assault). This would fall under the realm of reasonable arrangement. I wouldn't expect them to change their official policy.

Such a path would mean that depending on where you live your kid might be bussed across the county and would be the only non magnet rider on the magnet bus. (There may be kids going to multiple magnet schools sharing the bus, but they're all in the magnet programs). While I doubt they would actively shun her, they wouldn't have the shared experience to bond over. Also coming in at the middle of the year as a new kid, she would be an anomaly which might be hard for a sensitive, quiet child to overcome.

Switching schools is never easy under the best of circumstances, which this isn't. If your local school can't fix the problem, which I hope they can, I'd talk with your daughter before you do something as drastic as switching schools. Ultimately, though, you have to do whatever it takes to keep your daughter safe.

Best of luck for both you and your daughter as you go through this. My heart goes out to you.

They won't assign magnet bussing this way. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a bit of a misrepresentation here: bussing in the way it is expressed here (unintentionally, no doubt) does not occur in MCPS. The kids from the low income housing area are entitled to bus service because of their distance from BCMS. This service would be available to any child regardless of income who lives that distance or further away. There is no program of corrective busing in MoCo. Sometimes school zones are gerrymandered as a corrective action, but just as many zones have been manipulated to create schools drawing artificially affluent populations.

There actually is busing in MCPS. Here are the boundaries for Briggs Chaney MS:

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/BriggsChaneyMS.pdf

But I don't know who is getting "bused" to the school, and who is just plain getting bused (in the sense of taking the bus to school). Is everybody who doesn't live in the top blob getting "bused"?

[Anonymous]

I agree with a self defense class. Glad my kids have taken one. They have had experience sparring - something I never had. If someone ever comes at them, it won't be quite as surreal to them as I think it would be to me.

One kid is a brown belt now.... I think martial arts has been great for her in many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a bit of a misrepresentation here: bussing in the way it is expressed here (unintentionally, no doubt) does not occur in MCPS. The kids from the low income housing area are entitled to bus service because of their distance from BCMS. This service would be available to any child regardless of income who lives that distance or further away. There is no program of corrective busing in MoCo. Sometimes school zones are gerrymandered as a corrective action, but just as many zones have been manipulated to create schools drawing artificially affluent populations.

There actually is busing in MCPS. Here are the boundaries for Briggs Chaney MS:

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/BriggsChaneyMS.pdf

But I don't know who is getting "bused" to the school, and who is just plain getting bused (in the sense of taking the bus to school). Is everybody who doesn't live in the top blob getting "bused"?

The low income area is much closer to Banneker middle school. Maybe they split the kids up on purpose.

[Anonymous]

Of course, another issue with saying that kids from X area are "bused" is that it implies that they don't really belong at the school. There are the regular kids, who belong there, and then there are the "bused" kids.

Whereas actually anybody zoned for that school belongs at that school just as much as anybody else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is in public school so I don't think there is a way to change schools. And moving isn't an option. We live where we can afford and that is the state of the schools in this area.

Yes, yes you can. Keep documenting the bullying, please. All in emails, so there is a record. After a certain numbers of incidents you should be able to request that the school is not protecting your child and you need to switch.

Not the OP, but did you not read that the family can afford to live where they are and moving is not an option because of finances?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The low income area is much closer to Banneker middle school. Maybe they split the kids up on purpose.

Something for you to read: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/agenda/2003-04/2004-0322/bannekerbriggschaney.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The low income area is much closer to Banneker middle school. Maybe they split the kids up on purpose.

Something for you to read: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/agenda/2003-04/2004-0322/bannekerbriggschaney.pdf

So, not an economically-corrective busing program, but an attempt to ease over crowding. The social- engineering conspiracists of DCUM will be disappointed.