Marriage

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:At times it seems to me that marriage is a grand scheme, a ruse designed to use women to benefit men. I truly see way more advantages for men than for women in the institution of marriage.

Allright ladies, clueless husband here. I would genuinely appreciate some explanation of how I have the better deal in marriage. Please be specific because I would like to know why you believe this, but so far this thread has been entirely flame bait without any actual intelligent points to support the OP's position.

With the case of my exH here were all the benefits he received:
1) Free household cleaning (with the exception of him doing laundry and dishes).
2) Free yard work (he never did any yard work)
3) Sex (which quickly dwindled the more often he reminded me that he made more and therefore did not have to do anything around the house and what a horrible Mother I was.)
4) Time to go to the gym while I played with our child (and he never returned the favor to me)
5) Didn't pay a single childcare expense (because he convinced me this was a fair trade for him paying the other bills, would be true if he didn't make 3x what I did)

Anyway, can you see why he is single now?

Most men don't care about these things. Women think that chores are value added. Most bachelors who live alone only make their bed when they expect company. They clean to conform to female expectations and desire for nice looking house. We just want sex and Sportscenter.

And.... we should care why?

We want a clean house. Why should our quality of life have to suffer because you don't? And then you sanctimoniously like to imply that women are being unreasonable by not wanting to live in mess and the male way, of only caring about getting to have sex (which is just such a desperate, pathetic mindset that it's unbelievable) is better.

Bitch, please.

My point is this is typical female drivel about chores and housekeep. Men want cold beers, lots of sex, and time to watch football. They don't really care about the decorating you've done around the house, the accent pillows you picked out, the hue of the paint you chose on the wall in the office, or how much dust there is on the baseboards. So stop claiming that you're "improving our lives" when you stress out about these things and knock yourself out to make sure stuff is spiff and span. We. Don't. Care.

And why exactly is keeping a neat house or decorating "typical drivel" whereas beers, babes, and football is some noble pasttime?

Please explain to me the logic here.

Because we men don't claim that throwing great BBQ's, having cold beer in the fridge, or the like are reasons that our women have it good in a relationship! You're missing the point. Women go to great lengths touting how they do X, Y, and Z and so their men should be pleased. But if X, Y, and Z are things men are agnostic about as relationship goods those aren't really selling points.

But if it's something we care about as women, we have every right to value those things. Whether or not you want to appreciate it, there is definite value in living in a neater space, in having a meal cooked for you, in having the house well decorated. In fact, it seems absurd to argue the opposite.

And I hate to tell you- but men's opinion of a task does not add or delete value. A task or activity is worthwhile by itself, regardless of what "you men" have to say about it.

New poster, but again, this seems to miss the point. The woman can work as hard as she wants to live in a place she likes. But don't turn around and expect "marriage credits" for that effort. It's no better or worse than time a man spends putting effort into his hobby.

Ok, and men shouldn't expect marriage points for wanting sex, or for.... erm, well I can't think of anyway in which the activities listed would add to the marriage.

And they should expect to have points deducted when they can't bring things to the table that women like- like keeping a neat house, for example

Now you're making no sense. Men are simple creatures. We present who were are on the dating market. Say I'm an upper middle class professional on the road to making 6 figures or more. Maybe I'm a lawyer. I bring a good income, education, and good looks (at least ones you find attractive) to the table and my basic desires for a relationship are regular sex, activities together, little nagging, companionship and appreciation. Mutual on all counts, btw. Problem is, we get engaged, married and suddenly I'm supposed to appreciate (as a substitute for all the previous sex and "cool girl" companionship you gave me) all the chores you do, meals you cook, children you want to raise. I would have been perfectly happy with the prior arrangements but you wanted to change the arrangement. Again all comes down to the fact that men meet women the way they want the woman already. We hope you won't change. You try to change us AND what we like.

This is such a cartoonish view of men. Its like a bad rom-com!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At times it seems to me that marriage is a grand scheme, a ruse designed to use women to benefit men. I truly see way more advantages for men than for women in the institution of marriage.

Allright ladies, clueless husband here. I would genuinely appreciate some explanation of how I have the better deal in marriage. Please be specific because I would like to know why you believe this, but so far this thread has been entirely flame bait without any actual intelligent points to support the OP's position.

With the case of my exH here were all the benefits he received:
1) Free household cleaning (with the exception of him doing laundry and dishes).
2) Free yard work (he never did any yard work)
3) Sex (which quickly dwindled the more often he reminded me that he made more and therefore did not have to do anything around the house and what a horrible Mother I was.)
4) Time to go to the gym while I played with our child (and he never returned the favor to me)
5) Didn't pay a single childcare expense (because he convinced me this was a fair trade for him paying the other bills, would be true if he didn't make 3x what I did)

Anyway, can you see why he is single now?

Quite a substantive response there.

Most men don't care about these things. Women think that chores are value added. Most bachelors who live alone only make their bed when they expect company. They clean to conform to female expectations and desire for nice looking house. We just want sex and Sportscenter.

And.... we should care why?

We want a clean house. Why should our quality of life have to suffer because you don't? And then you sanctimoniously like to imply that women are being unreasonable by not wanting to live in mess and the male way, of only caring about getting to have sex (which is just such a desperate, pathetic mindset that it's unbelievable) is better.

Bitch, please.

My point is this is typical female drivel about chores and housekeep. Men want cold beers, lots of sex, and time to watch football. They don't really care about the decorating you've done around the house, the accent pillows you picked out, the hue of the paint you chose on the wall in the office, or how much dust there is on the baseboards. So stop claiming that you're "improving our lives" when you stress out about these things and knock yourself out to make sure stuff is spiff and span. We. Don't. Care.

And why exactly is keeping a neat house or decorating "typical drivel" whereas beers, babes, and football is some noble pasttime?

Please explain to me the logic here.

Because we men don't claim that throwing great BBQ's, having cold beer in the fridge, or the like are reasons that our women have it good in a relationship! You're missing the point. Women go to great lengths touting how they do X, Y, and Z and so their men should be pleased. But if X, Y, and Z are things men are agnostic about as relationship goods those aren't really selling points.

But if it's something we care about as women, we have every right to value those things. Whether or not you want to appreciate it, there is definite value in living in a neater space, in having a meal cooked for you, in having the house well decorated. In fact, it seems absurd to argue the opposite.

And I hate to tell you- but men's opinion of a task does not add or delete value. A task or activity is worthwhile by itself, regardless of what "you men" have to say about it.

New poster, but again, this seems to miss the point. The woman can work as hard as she wants to live in a place she likes. But don't turn around and expect "marriage credits" for that effort. It's no better or worse than time a man spends putting effort into his hobby.

Ok, and men shouldn't expect marriage points for wanting sex, or for.... erm, well I can't think of anyway in which the activities listed would add to the marriage.

And they should expect to have points deducted when they can't bring things to the table that women like- like keeping a neat house, for example

Now you're making no sense. Men are simple creatures. We present who were are on the dating market. Say I'm an upper middle class professional on the road to making 6 figures or more. Maybe I'm a lawyer. I bring a good income, education, and good looks (at least ones you find attractive) to the table and my basic desires for a relationship are regular sex, activities together, little nagging, companionship and appreciation. Mutual on all counts, btw. Problem is, we get engaged, married and suddenly I'm supposed to appreciate (as a substitute for all the previous sex and "cool girl" companionship you gave me) all the chores you do, meals you cook, children you want to raise. I would have been perfectly happy with the prior arrangements but you wanted to change the arrangement. Again all comes down to the fact that men meet women the way they want the woman already. We hope you won't change. You try to change us AND what we like.

This is such a cartoonish view of men. Its like a bad rom-com!

[Anonymous]

I hear what the men are saying. They just want beer, football, sex, companionship, BBQs, etc.

However, there are inescapable chores that come with having a household. Laundry, cooking, yardwork, dishes, bills, etc.

I could say all I want is wine, friendship, restaurants, movies, and shoes but it's ignoring a huge chunk of responsibility.

While we're watching football or shopping for shoes, how is the laundry getting done? Equitable chores are a huge part of a marriage. When they get lopsided, the person doing more feels like a maid or a servant. Constantly sacrificing the things she wants (wine) while the spouse just takes and takes (football). When she asks for help, she usually has to ask and ask several times. Then she's a nag. If not outright ignored.

I consider myself lucky and purposefully married a man that is not lazy. However, I can see how a marriage could become a lose-lose scenario for a woman, and it is entirely based on chores.

[Anonymous]

Speaking as a hardworking, successful woman, there is no way that any woman who makes her own money should be getting married.

As soon as you move a man in and give him the assurance of marriage, he gets lazy and selfish. If he is at least bankrolling everything, then that is the quid pro quo. A high income woman like me gets nothing from the traditional husband that she can't get from a boyfriend. Meanwhile, the husband involves headaches that a boyfriend does not. I would have put my annoying DH out by now if not for the time and expense of divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At times it seems to me that marriage is a grand scheme, a ruse designed to use women to benefit men. I truly see way more advantages for men than for women in the institution of marriage.

Allright ladies, clueless husband here. I would genuinely appreciate some explanation of how I have the better deal in marriage. Please be specific because I would like to know why you believe this, but so far this thread has been entirely flame bait without any actual intelligent points to support the OP's position.

With the case of my exH here were all the benefits he received:
1) Free household cleaning (with the exception of him doing laundry and dishes).
2) Free yard work (he never did any yard work)
3) Sex (which quickly dwindled the more often he reminded me that he made more and therefore did not have to do anything around the house and what a horrible Mother I was.)
4) Time to go to the gym while I played with our child (and he never returned the favor to me)
5) Didn't pay a single childcare expense (because he convinced me this was a fair trade for him paying the other bills, would be true if he didn't make 3x what I did)

Anyway, can you see why he is single now?

Most men don't care about these things. Women think that chores are value added. Most bachelors who live alone only make their bed when they expect company. They clean to conform to female expectations and desire for nice looking house. We just want sex and Sportscenter.

And.... we should care why?

We want a clean house. Why should our quality of life have to suffer because you don't? And then you sanctimoniously like to imply that women are being unreasonable by not wanting to live in mess and the male way, of only caring about getting to have sex (which is just such a desperate, pathetic mindset that it's unbelievable) is better.

Bitch, please.

My point is this is typical female drivel about chores and housekeep. Men want cold beers, lots of sex, and time to watch football. They don't really care about the decorating you've done around the house, the accent pillows you picked out, the hue of the paint you chose on the wall in the office, or how much dust there is on the baseboards. So stop claiming that you're "improving our lives" when you stress out about these things and knock yourself out to make sure stuff is spiff and span. We. Don't. Care.

^This is the kind of idiot I am talking about. Why would any woman who has her own money let this bottom feeding carpet fish latch onto her? The only way I will ever advise any of my daughters to get married is if they want to stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear what the men are saying. They just want beer, football, sex, companionship, BBQs, etc.

However, there are inescapable chores that come with having a household. Laundry, cooking, yardwork, dishes, bills, etc.

I could say all I want is wine, friendship, restaurants, movies, and shoes but it's ignoring a huge chunk of responsibility.

While we're watching football or shopping for shoes, how is the laundry getting done? Equitable chores are a huge part of a marriage. When they get lopsided, the person doing more feels like a maid or a servant. Constantly sacrificing the things she wants (wine) while the spouse just takes and takes (football). When she asks for help, she usually has to ask and ask several times. Then she's a nag. If not outright ignored.

I consider myself lucky and purposefully married a man that is not lazy. However, I can see how a marriage could become a lose-lose scenario for a woman, and it is entirely based on chores.

I think the key is coming up with a reasonable level on the chores that works for everyone. We dust maybe once a year, mow the lawn every other week, vacuum once a month, etc. If things slip and instead of having a larger meal we eat salad that night it's not really a big deal. If the weeds get pulled this week or next week then it's not a big deal.

[Anonymous]

All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

Sounds as if you need to become a homosexual since what men want is all you can think about. How do you like penis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

Sounds as if you need to become a homosexual since what men want is all you can think about. How do you like penis?

This is just a non sequitur and not a substantive response. No one has refuted my point that women frequently want marriage points for doing things that their spouse could take or leave. That makes no sense. I don't expect my spouse to give me points for working on my golf game. Likewise, I shouldn't have to give her points for finding tasteful accent pillows. My life would not change one iota with cranberry versus sage accent pillows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear what the men are saying. They just want beer, football, sex, companionship, BBQs, etc.

However, there are inescapable chores that come with having a household. Laundry, cooking, yardwork, dishes, bills, etc.

I could say all I want is wine, friendship, restaurants, movies, and shoes but it's ignoring a huge chunk of responsibility.

While we're watching football or shopping for shoes, how is the laundry getting done? Equitable chores are a huge part of a marriage. When they get lopsided, the person doing more feels like a maid or a servant. Constantly sacrificing the things she wants (wine) while the spouse just takes and takes (football). When she asks for help, she usually has to ask and ask several times. Then she's a nag. If not outright ignored.

I consider myself lucky and purposefully married a man that is not lazy. However, I can see how a marriage could become a lose-lose scenario for a woman, and it is entirely based on chores.

A lose lose for whoever is pulling more of their weight. Be it man or woman. I know PLENTY of bottom-feeding self entitled lazy bitches. And plenty of husbands that work full time jobs, cook, do chores and are engaged fathers.
I also consider myself lucky to have married a man that is not lazy, and I don't take advantage of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

Sounds as if you need to become a homosexual since what men want is all you can think about. How do you like penis?

This is just a non sequitur and not a substantive response. No one has refuted my point that women frequently want marriage points for doing things that their spouse could take or leave. That makes no sense. I don't expect my spouse to give me points for working on my golf game. Likewise, I shouldn't have to give her points for finding tasteful accent pillows. My life would not change one iota with cranberry versus sage accent pillows.

Okay, let me spell it out for you, dummy. To the degree you want to date women, you have to care about what women want. So what if men could live among rats and covered in feces on Skid Row with no running water? Are you looking for a man?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

Sounds as if you need to become a homosexual since what men want is all you can think about. How do you like penis?

This is just a non sequitur and not a substantive response. No one has refuted my point that women frequently want marriage points for doing things that their spouse could take or leave. That makes no sense. I don't expect my spouse to give me points for working on my golf game. Likewise, I shouldn't have to give her points for finding tasteful accent pillows. My life would not change one iota with cranberry versus sage accent pillows.

Okay, let me spell it out for you, dummy. To the degree you want to date women, you have to care about what women want. So what if men could live among rats and covered in feces on Skid Row with no running water? Are you looking for a man?

Dummy! Words hurt ya know. In any event, yes men need to care about what women want. But women lie to themselves about the fact that they show zero iota of concern about these things (chores, housework, picking out accent pillows) during the courtship period. Once snagged into matrimony they assert their Martha Stewart ways on their previously unsuspecting boyfriend who, now husband, wonder, "where did cool girl that I married go?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

Sounds as if you need to become a homosexual since what men want is all you can think about. How do you like penis?

This is just a non sequitur and not a substantive response. No one has refuted my point that women frequently want marriage points for doing things that their spouse could take or leave. That makes no sense. I don't expect my spouse to give me points for working on my golf game. Likewise, I shouldn't have to give her points for finding tasteful accent pillows. My life would not change one iota with cranberry versus sage accent pillows.

You are making a blanket statement about men that is not universal. If you are living alone and 'making the bed when someone comes over' you also aren't managing a household with multiple people in it.

I make dinner for my husband a lot, great dinners! If I wasn't there would he survive and be ok with...frozen pizzas cereal and beer? Yes, he'd be fine. He likes those things. Dudes like those things. But he appreciates my cooking good dinners for him, he gives me 'marriage points' for that because its a way I express love and affection for him and his life is improved by it. Even if the improvement is something he could live without. Cleaning, laundry, caring for children, grocery shopping, errand running, diaper changing, being a good parent, those all fall into the same category. Maybe its not a 'must have' for a slovenly husband but it does make life easier and better for him. And doing it is a way of showing love and affection (which is where all 'real' marriage points should come from. What do I get when you play golf? I have literally zero discernable benefit from playing golf. Not even emotionally. Its why I would claim no marriage points for going out with my girlfriends for dinner. Talking about accent pillows is a great way to demean someone's interests because obviously its not about whether YOU care about cranberry versus sage, its an entire mindset of making your household presentable which presents your family in a positive way to the outside world. If a woman is completely obsessed with accent pillows and wants credit from you for that then sure, thats crazy, but thats so cartoonish a picture of a DW that its hard to take seriously (although frankly so is your cartoonish depiction of yourself as a DH).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

Sounds as if you need to become a homosexual since what men want is all you can think about. How do you like penis?

This is just a non sequitur and not a substantive response. No one has refuted my point that women frequently want marriage points for doing things that their spouse could take or leave. That makes no sense. I don't expect my spouse to give me points for working on my golf game. Likewise, I shouldn't have to give her points for finding tasteful accent pillows. My life would not change one iota with cranberry versus sage accent pillows.

Okay, let me spell it out for you, dummy. To the degree you want to date women, you have to care about what women want. So what if men could live among rats and covered in feces on Skid Row with no running water? Are you looking for a man?

Dummy! Words hurt ya know. In any event, yes men need to care about what women want. But women lie to themselves about the fact that they show zero iota of concern about these things (chores, housework, picking out accent pillows) during the courtship period. Once snagged into matrimony they assert their Martha Stewart ways on their previously unsuspecting boyfriend who, now husband, wonder, "where did cool girl that I married go?"

LOL if you accidentally married an interior decorator and weren't paying attention to her interests and likes when you were dating her than thats on you buddy. Women do not like, turn into Mrs. Cleaver as soon as they get the ring. Or if they do then there were other warning signs that that was coming that you just ignored. Or they're pathological gone girls. Seriously I don't know anyone who just ALL OF A SUDDEN turned into Martha Stewart lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these women are missing the point. Many men -- I won't say all -- but many of us aren't bothered *as quickly* as you are by the dishes piling up, laundry not being done, or much more menial things like some dust on the floor or a lightbulb that goes out. In my experience women stress more about these things and cannot relax and be "fun sexy girl" that we fell in love with until every painting in the house is hung correctly etc. etc. Men can't stand that. It isn't what you sell us in the beginning of the relationship, but as soon as we move in together we're expected to be Bob Villa to your Martha Stewart.

Sounds as if you need to become a homosexual since what men want is all you can think about. How do you like penis?

This is just a non sequitur and not a substantive response. No one has refuted my point that women frequently want marriage points for doing things that their spouse could take or leave. That makes no sense. I don't expect my spouse to give me points for working on my golf game. Likewise, I shouldn't have to give her points for finding tasteful accent pillows. My life would not change one iota with cranberry versus sage accent pillows.

Okay, let me spell it out for you, dummy. To the degree you want to date women, you have to care about what women want. So what if men could live among rats and covered in feces on Skid Row with no running water? Are you looking for a man?

I suspect you are a woman. If not, you should talk to more men. There are lots of men who will tell you how, prior to marriage, their wives were mainly interesting in relaxing, grabbing dinner, cooking casually together and having lots of sex. Once they move in together the women suddenly feel so stressed about buying the right furniture, arranging it, making sure the baseboards are wiped down, laundry folded, etc. etc. They go from no frills fun into Martha Stewart ironwomen.

Dummy! Words hurt ya know. In any event, yes men need to care about what women want. But women lie to themselves about the fact that they show zero iota of concern about these things (chores, housework, picking out accent pillows) during the courtship period. Once snagged into matrimony they assert their Martha Stewart ways on their previously unsuspecting boyfriend who, now husband, wonder, "where did cool girl that I married go?"

LOL if you accidentally married an interior decorator and weren't paying attention to her interests and likes when you were dating her than thats on you buddy. Women do not like, turn into Mrs. Cleaver as soon as they get the ring. Or if they do then there were other warning signs that that was coming that you just ignored. Or they're pathological gone girls. Seriously I don't know anyone who just ALL OF A SUDDEN turned into Martha Stewart lol.