New York Top Schools - Top marks largely go to Asians. Bill de Blasio wants to change the exams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than spending time/effort explaining why blacks and Latino kids can't score high, why not teach them to take school seriously? It's pathetic how hard people try to underscore Asian kids' accomplishments.

You just spent time/effort explaining it yourself. Your explanation is that they don't take school seriously. I wonder how you know that.

You can't be serious.

Yes, I'm serious. Please explain how you know that the reason that test scores for black/Latino kids tend to be lower is that black/Latino kids don't take school seriously.

Not the PP but all you have to do is go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs and look around. An extra hour or 2 a day of studying is a good enough indicator of "serious" for me....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than spending time/effort explaining why blacks and Latino kids can't score high, why not teach them to take school seriously? It's pathetic how hard people try to underscore Asian kids' accomplishments.

You just spent time/effort explaining it yourself. Your explanation is that they don't take school seriously. I wonder how you know that.

You can't be serious.

Yes, I'm serious. Please explain how you know that the reason that test scores for black/Latino kids tend to be lower is that black/Latino kids don't take school seriously.

Not the PP but all you have to do is go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs and look around. An extra hour or 2 a day of studying is a good enough indicator of "serious" for me....

My kids don't go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs. I guess that means that my kids and I don't take school seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

Yes, they should. And many colleges actually have stopped.

In addition, no college admits applicants solely on the basis of SAT/ACT scores. Big state universities tend to looks mostly at test scores and GPAs, but the highest ranking schools also require essays and teacher recommendations. The top colleges and universities want students who bring more to the table than just high test scores. They want kids who are academic high achievers who also will participate in and contribute to the community.
I

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than spending time/effort explaining why blacks and Latino kids can't score high, why not teach them to take school seriously? It's pathetic how hard people try to underscore Asian kids' accomplishments.

You just spent time/effort explaining it yourself. Your explanation is that they don't take school seriously. I wonder how you know that.

You can't be serious.

Yes, I'm serious. Please explain how you know that the reason that test scores for black/Latino kids tend to be lower is that black/Latino kids don't take school seriously.

Not the PP but all you have to do is go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs and look around. An extra hour or 2 a day of studying is a good enough indicator of "serious" for me....

My kids don't go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs. I guess that means that my kids and I don't take school seriously?

Not as serious as other families who make time to do extra work. No free meals in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

Yes, they should. And many colleges actually have stopped.

In addition, no college admits applicants solely on the basis of SAT/ACT scores. Big state universities tend to looks mostly at test scores and GPAs, but the highest ranking schools also require essays and teacher recommendations. The top colleges and universities want students who bring more to the table than just high test scores. They want kids who are academic high achievers who also will participate in and contribute to the community.
I

I can understand if colleges use AA as part of the admissions because not all HS around the country are the same. A kid who went to a crap HS didn't have the chance to be challenged and take AP courses. But, in this case, all of those kids in Stuy are coming from the same pool of HS. They all have the same equal opportunity to learn the same things, take the same classes. Makes no sense to apply AA in such a case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

Yes, they should. And many colleges actually have stopped.

In addition, no college admits applicants solely on the basis of SAT/ACT scores. Big state universities tend to looks mostly at test scores and GPAs, but the highest ranking schools also require essays and teacher recommendations. The top colleges and universities want students who bring more to the table than just high test scores. They want kids who are academic high achievers who also will participate in and contribute to the community.
I

Here we go again. And, let me guess, you are saying Asian kids bring nothing but high scores? This always reminds me of the movie "White men can't jump"... Just so stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I can understand if colleges use AA as part of the admissions because not all HS around the country are the same. A kid who went to a crap HS didn't have the chance to be challenged and take AP courses. But, in this case, all of those kids in Stuy are coming from the same pool of HS. They all have the same equal opportunity to learn the same things, take the same classes. Makes no sense to apply AA in such a case.

Everybody in NYC public schools has an equal educational opportunity to everybody else? What a paradise NYC public schools must be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but all you have to do is go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs and look around. An extra hour or 2 a day of studying is a good enough indicator of "serious" for me....

My kids don't go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs. I guess that means that my kids and I don't take school seriously?

Not as serious as other families who make time to do extra work. No free meals in life.

All after-school supplemental study programs are extra work. Not all extra work is after-school supplemental study programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I can understand if colleges use AA as part of the admissions because not all HS around the country are the same. A kid who went to a crap HS didn't have the chance to be challenged and take AP courses. But, in this case, all of those kids in Stuy are coming from the same pool of HS. They all have the same equal opportunity to learn the same things, take the same classes. Makes no sense to apply AA in such a case.

Everybody in NYC public schools has an equal educational opportunity to everybody else? What a paradise NYC public schools must be.

OK, so are all of these kids getting into Stuy from the same HS? I don't think so. There are kids coming in from all different HS, so the kids from those HS have the same opportunities to learn the same things as the kids getting in.

Same for HGC in MCPS. Kids from all over the county get into the program. There are five from my Dc's schools alone. There are about 100 kids in the 3rd grade, four teachers, kids switch classes between two teachers. So, at least 50 kids have the same teacher, were taught the same curriculum, had equal opportunity to learn. Yet, only two from the class of 50 got in. So yes, kids have equal opportunity within the same district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but all you have to do is go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs and look around. An extra hour or 2 a day of studying is a good enough indicator of "serious" for me....

My kids don't go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs. I guess that means that my kids and I don't take school seriously?

Not as serious as other families who make time to do extra work. No free meals in life.

All after-school supplemental study programs are extra work. Not all extra work is after-school supplemental study programs.

? not sure what your pt is but I don't think we are talking about playing basketballs or footballs after school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

Yes, they should. And many colleges actually have stopped.

In addition, no college admits applicants solely on the basis of SAT/ACT scores. Big state universities tend to looks mostly at test scores and GPAs, but the highest ranking schools also require essays and teacher recommendations. The top colleges and universities want students who bring more to the table than just high test scores. They want kids who are academic high achievers who also will participate in and contribute to the community.
I

Here we go again. And, let me guess, you are saying Asian kids bring nothing but high scores? This always reminds me of the movie "White men can't jump"... Just so stupid.

This post said nothing about kids being Asian. Colleges want kids who bring more to the table no mater what their race or nationality. Top schools could fill their classes many times with kids with top scores; they want kids who are academic achievers and also sing, paint, act, run, play an instrument, play baseball, volunteer with the elderly. They want kids who will bring lots of different talents and skills to the college community to make the school an even better place for learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OK, so are all of these kids getting into Stuy from the same HS? I don't think so. There are kids coming in from all different HS, so the kids from those HS have the same opportunities to learn the same things as the kids getting in.

Same for HGC in MCPS. Kids from all over the county get into the program. There are five from my Dc's schools alone. There are about 100 kids in the 3rd grade, four teachers, kids switch classes between two teachers. So, at least 50 kids have the same teacher, were taught the same curriculum, had equal opportunity to learn. Yet, only two from the class of 50 got in. So yes, kids have equal opportunity within the same district.

Actually, the whole point is that all of these kids getting into Stuy are not coming from the same schools. Unless you think that every public school in New York City offers exactly the same educational opportunities as every other public school in New York City?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but all you have to do is go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs and look around. An extra hour or 2 a day of studying is a good enough indicator of "serious" for me....

My kids don't go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs. I guess that means that my kids and I don't take school seriously?

Not as serious as other families who make time to do extra work. No free meals in life.

All after-school supplemental study programs are extra work. Not all extra work is after-school supplemental study programs.

? not sure what your pt is but I don't think we are talking about playing basketballs or footballs after school.

NP here. We take school seriously, do not do Kumon or supplemental study programs after school. Nor do we do basketballs or footballs.

I'm not sure why we should aspire to the hagwon cram school model, and our family doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not the PP but all you have to do is go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs and look around. An extra hour or 2 a day of studying is a good enough indicator of "serious" for me....

My kids don't go to Kumon, MathWorks, or any of the after school supplemental study programs. I guess that means that my kids and I don't take school seriously?

Not as serious as other families who make time to do extra work. No free meals in life.

All after-school supplemental study programs are extra work. Not all extra work is after-school supplemental study programs.

? not sure what your pt is but I don't think we are talking about playing basketballs or footballs after school.

NP here. We take school seriously, do not do Kumon or supplemental study programs after school. Nor do we do basketballs or footballs.

I'm not sure why we should aspire to the hagwon cram school model, and our family doesn't.

+1 I'm Asian. My DC is in HGC, and DC has never gone to tutors or taken prep tests. Of course we take school seriously. When DCs get home, it's HW first before anything else. I agree, just because we don't do tutors, etc.. doesn't mean we don't take school seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are plenty of smart kids in all races and ethnicities. An exam (not just this exam -- any exam) is an imperfect means of identifying them.

maybe, maybe not... how do you explain the fact Asian/White kids score consistently higher on any and all tests? just a coincidence? i think not.

Because exams are imperfect means of identifying smart kids of all races and ethnicities.

Unless you're suggesting that there is something inherently smarter about white and Asian kids than black and Latino kids? I certainly hope that you're not suggesting that. Not only would it be racist, it would be profoundly ignorant of biology.

I think by lowering standards of an academic test to gain entrance into an academic institution for academic purposes is implying that some races are not academically smart.

Yes, there are all kinds of smart kids - some are good in music, dance, sports, spatial reasoning...and so there are competitions that measure these specific kind of intelligence too.

Since exams are such an imperfect way - we should eliminate all exams. Harvard can institute some kind of "Hunger Games" kind of scenario and the survivor gets admitted to it.

No, it is saying that academic tests are a measure of prerequisite knowledge. It is a mistake to consider standardized tests, measures of intelligence. It's a measure of current levels of memorization of standardized knowledge such as spelling, definitions, synonyms/antonyms, basic mathematics, etc. It is more accurate to say that only kids that have a certain number of prerequisite knowledge are admitted and that the standardized test is a measure of their prerequisite knowledge. This then highlights why those who are more prepared or spend more time prepping do better. Standardized tests are not IQ tests.

And offering test prep courses to any lower income students who qualify is the way to off-set this. They can then have the advantage of test prep classes that they might otherwise not be able to afford. And you can offer this without lowering the standards or the acceptance rates even for smaller demographics. You direct those groups who are underrepresented to take the courses offered.