New York Top Schools - Top marks largely go to Asians. Bill de Blasio wants to change the exams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't the blacks and Hispanics learn from the asians? That would maybe there should be classes how to adopt asian culture of studying, determination and hard work.

The blacks and hispanics are not the ones who are worried about getting into these schools. It is the Whites who have gone from 80% in 1970s to 25% in 2015. And the lowering of standards will help Whites.

Give free test prep to economically disadvantaged kids of all races.

NYCPS already offer this to some extent for the tests to get into STuy, etc and also for the SATs. But kids have to be motivated to attend classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't the blacks and Hispanics learn from the asians? That would maybe there should be classes how to adopt asian culture of studying, determination and hard work.

The blacks and hispanics are not the ones who are worried about getting into these schools. It is the Whites who have gone from 80% in 1970s to 25% in 2015. And the lowering of standards will help Whites.

Give free test prep to economically disadvantaged kids of all races.

Or switch to a test that is less susceptible to test prep (if there is such a thing).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't the blacks and Hispanics learn from the asians? That would maybe there should be classes how to adopt asian culture of studying, determination and hard work.

The blacks and hispanics are not the ones who are worried about getting into these schools. It is the Whites who have gone from 80% in 1970s to 25% in 2015. And the lowering of standards will help Whites.

Give free test prep to economically disadvantaged kids of all races.

NYCPS already offer this to some extent for the tests to get into STuy, etc and also for the SATs. But kids have to be motivated to attend classes.[/quote]

That is the problem. Not much anyone can do if kids/families don't step up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that any exam which promotes pure rote learning is going to benefit the most studious kids. But I am not sure that the ability to regurgitate information demonstrates the most ability.

I would prefer to see assessment that recognises creativity and original thinking too.

I love this. Anytime Asian kids do well on something, it must be pure rote learning.

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/ This article describes how Harvard et al use holistic admission criterion to keep the Asian percentage constant even though the Asian kids' winning increasingly all kids of science awards (rote learning too?) suggests that they are increasing their achievement by leaps and bounds.

I think that if test prep can significantly increase your score on an exam, then there's a good chance that the exam contains a good bit of rote learning.

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than spending time/effort explaining why blacks and Latino kids can't score high, why not teach them to take school seriously? It's pathetic how hard people try to underscore Asian kids' accomplishments.

You just spent time/effort explaining it yourself. Your explanation is that they don't take school seriously. I wonder how you know that.

You can't be serious.

Yes, I'm serious. Please explain how you know that the reason that test scores for black/Latino kids tend to be lower is that black/Latino kids don't take school seriously.

NP here.

I think the poster who wants to say that Blacks and Latino kids DO take school seriously but are not doing well is implying that they are not intelligent.

I think the poster who is saying that Blacks and Latino kids DO NOT take school seriously is implying that they have the intelligence but they are just not interested in school.

I tend to agree with the latter poster. I also believe that all kids of all races have it in them to succeed academically, if they and their parents make academics a priority and value education. Hard work is the answer. Yes, it is not very glamorous, but it is the only thing that is guaranteed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't the blacks and Hispanics learn from the asians? That would maybe there should be classes how to adopt asian culture of studying, determination and hard work.

The blacks and hispanics are not the ones who are worried about getting into these schools. It is the Whites who have gone from 80% in 1970s to 25% in 2015. And the lowering of standards will help Whites.

Give free test prep to economically disadvantaged kids of all races.

Or switch to a test that is less susceptible to test prep (if there is such a thing).

Well, the test to get into the gifted program in MCPS is supposed to be very hush hush, and generally, you can't get a hold of past or sample exams. However, some parents have come to realize that it's very similar to cogat tests, so they have their kids prep by taking the cogat sample test. Where there is a will, there is a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't the blacks and Hispanics learn from the asians? That would maybe there should be classes how to adopt asian culture of studying, determination and hard work.

The blacks and hispanics are not the ones who are worried about getting into these schools. It is the Whites who have gone from 80% in 1970s to 25% in 2015. And the lowering of standards will help Whites.

Give free test prep to economically disadvantaged kids of all races.

NYCPS already offer this to some extent for the tests to get into STuy, etc and also for the SATs. But kids have to be motivated to attend classes.[/quote]

That is the problem. Not much anyone can do if kids/families don't step up.

Exactly. These schools accept the top 3% of scorers regardless of race, economic status, etc. about as "fair" as it gets. People just don't like the fact that the top 3% is mostly Asian and are now looking for ways to make it so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

Yes, they should. And many colleges actually have stopped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well, the test to get into the gifted program in MCPS is supposed to be very hush hush, and generally, you can't get a hold of past or sample exams. However, some parents have come to realize that it's very similar to cogat tests, so they have their kids prep by taking the cogat sample test. Where there is a will, there is a way.

People definitely have their kids prep by taking the CogAT sample test. But is the prep effective, and if so, how effective is it?

Also, the test is not hush hush. There's at least one state board appeal decision posted on line that talks about it, and there are regularly links to the decision posted on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

Yes, they should. And many colleges actually have stopped.

Mostly lower tier colleges, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, the test to get into the gifted program in MCPS is supposed to be very hush hush, and generally, you can't get a hold of past or sample exams. However, some parents have come to realize that it's very similar to cogat tests, so they have their kids prep by taking the cogat sample test. Where there is a will, there is a way.

People definitely have their kids prep by taking the CogAT sample test. But is the prep effective, and if so, how effective is it?

Also, the test is not hush hush. There's at least one state board appeal decision posted on line that talks about it, and there are regularly links to the decision posted on DCUM.

The appeal decision doesn't indicate *exactly* what the test is, from what I recall, and the Board even indicated that the district doesn't have to provide the parent their kid's actual test even though the parent had requested it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Same can be applied to SATs, yet, most colleges use these scores as part of admissions. And a lot of kids of all ethnicities take SAT prep tests and/or tutor classes. If standardized tests only reflect rote learning or the ability to be good at taking exams, then colleges should stop using SAT/ACTs scores as part of the admissions process. But, I bet your kid has or will probably prep for the SATs when the time comes. When the time comes, I know I will encourage my DCs to prep for the SATs.

I do agree, though, that some people are better at taking exams than others, and it is not necessarily an accurate reflection of how "smart" they are.

Yes, they should. And many colleges actually have stopped.

Mostly lower tier colleges, right?

certainly not the majority of the top tiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, the test to get into the gifted program in MCPS is supposed to be very hush hush, and generally, you can't get a hold of past or sample exams. However, some parents have come to realize that it's very similar to cogat tests, so they have their kids prep by taking the cogat sample test. Where there is a will, there is a way.

People definitely have their kids prep by taking the CogAT sample test. But is the prep effective, and if so, how effective is it?

Also, the test is not hush hush. There's at least one state board appeal decision posted on line that talks about it, and there are regularly links to the decision posted on DCUM.

The appeal decision doesn't indicate *exactly* what the test is, from what I recall, and the Board even indicated that the district doesn't have to provide the parent their kid's actual test even though the parent had requested it.

"To apply for the Center program, each student must take three standardized CogAT tests." Top of p. 2.

http://www.marylandpublicschools.org/MSDe/stateboard/legalopinions/2010/docs/StanislavandIrinaP.Opin.No.14-31.pdf

[Anonymous]

"Test prep" is a fallacy. If that's the be all and end all, and kids squeak into a rigorous and demanding program because of test prep, then one of two things will happen: 1.) If the program truly is rigorous and demanding, many will wash out because they are unable to sustain the effort and keep up - because it takes a lot more than just that one time test prep. 2.) The program will get watered down because people are complaining that it's too demanding, then it's not worth the test prep or effort to get into anymore.

[Anonymous]

I am becoming much more conservative in my old age.

I am tired of Bill DeBlasio and his left wing agenda.

I am OVER affirmative action.

The kids who excel on the test are the ones who should be admitted to the top schools. Period. End of story.