Why I don't chat with this SN parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a special needs child, but what I've found that works for us, is to explain disabilities in a general sense. Oh dogs can do useful things, like help rescue people, help the police and also act as guide dogs to help people who can't see . Oh look did you notice these bumps on the elevator bumps, that's Braille, people who can't see still read using their fingers. Oh look the hospital provides wheelchairs, people use them when they have problems walking. I used one after I gave birth. Some people can't walk at all and they use them all the time. That is a handicap spot, people who have a more difficult time getting to the store get to use those spaces. There's a ramp, there's handrails, some people have trouble moving and this helps them. Look at the interpreter (on tv), she's using sign language for people who can't hear.

I prefer to avoid specific people as examples, so far just pointing out things we see everyday is enough to get across to my kids general idea that all people are not the same and everyone has a different range of abilities. One of my kids has a friend that has a baby sister with DS, they don't notice it now, but I will make sure to explain DS to them in more detail as time goes on.

I hope you do this in private. Do you have any idea how painful and uncomfortable it is listening to you do your teaching moment? It doesn't matter if my child is with me or not, but somethings you want to tell someone to be more sensitive given the person they are talking about is right there.

You're a nut. I'm a NP, and it is evident that the PP is explaining these things to her kid as they see them, likely when no one else is around. Even if you are around, how in the world is it "painful" to hear that the bumps on the elevator are braille for people who can't see? That dogs are there to help people cross the street?? How is "uncomfortable" to hear that ramps help people who have difficulty with stairs?

Here's my perspective.

I don't have a problem with kids needing explanations of wheelchairs and disabilities but at the same time it doesn't seem to build any bridges to seeing my child as a friend or more approachable or more included or more human. That's what I don't get. Why not have your kids stick around after getting their curiosity satisfied about the disability and swim/play/eat/interact/moviego with my child? Why is it always a case of hitting up me and my child for explanations of "What's wrong with her?" and then dashing off to your fun and your friends, as if we are some tourist attraction you needed to get the goods on?

If you want to know more about my kid, great, but then you can stick around to really get to know her. Like she does ballet, horsebackriding, is going into second grade, loves certain tv shows. Not just what caused her condition and what her hardware is about.

You clearly don't have to live the life of a special needs child or family member. You get tired of hearing about it and living it 24/7. When you get it, please let us know.

So educate me. Seriously. Why is it painful to overhear an educated explanation to a child about the ways in which society attempts to assist people with disabilities? Why should a discussion about the existence of Braille be hushed until no one is around? Being blind/deaf/on a respirator/<fill in the blank> isn't shameful, and I don't think it should be treated as such.

[Anonymous]

Here's my perspective.

I don't have a problem with kids needing explanations of wheelchairs and disabilities but at the same time it doesn't seem to build any bridges to seeing my child as a friend or more approachable or more included or more human. That's what I don't get. Why not have your kids stick around after getting their curiosity satisfied about the disability and swim/play/eat/interact/moviego with my child? Why is it always a case of hitting up me and my child for explanations of "What's wrong with her?" and then dashing off to your fun and your friends, as if we are some tourist attraction you needed to get the goods on?

If you want to know more about my kid, great, but then you can stick around to really get to know her. Like she does ballet, horsebackriding, is going into second grade, loves certain tv shows. Not just what caused her condition and what her hardware is about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a special needs child, but what I've found that works for us, is to explain disabilities in a general sense. Oh dogs can do useful things, like help rescue people, help the police and also act as guide dogs to help people who can't see . Oh look did you notice these bumps on the elevator bumps, that's Braille, people who can't see still read using their fingers. Oh look the hospital provides wheelchairs, people use them when they have problems walking. I used one after I gave birth. Some people can't walk at all and they use them all the time. That is a handicap spot, people who have a more difficult time getting to the store get to use those spaces. There's a ramp, there's handrails, some people have trouble moving and this helps them. Look at the interpreter (on tv), she's using sign language for people who can't hear.

I prefer to avoid specific people as examples, so far just pointing out things we see everyday is enough to get across to my kids general idea that all people are not the same and everyone has a different range of abilities. One of my kids has a friend that has a baby sister with DS, they don't notice it now, but I will make sure to explain DS to them in more detail as time goes on.

I hope you do this in private. Do you have any idea how painful and uncomfortable it is listening to you do your teaching moment? It doesn't matter if my child is with me or not, but somethings you want to tell someone to be more sensitive given the person they are talking about is right there.

You're a nut. I'm a NP, and it is evident that the PP is explaining these things to her kid as they see them, likely when no one else is around. Even if you are around, how in the world is it "painful" to hear that the bumps on the elevator are braille for people who can't see? That dogs are there to help people cross the street?? How is "uncomfortable" to hear that ramps help people who have difficulty with stairs?

You clearly don't have to live the life of a special needs child or family member. You get tired of hearing about it and living it 24/7. When you get it, please let us know.

So educate me. Seriously. Why is it painful to overhear an educated explanation to a child about the ways in which society attempts to assist people with disabilities? Why should a discussion about the existence of Braille be hushed until no one is around? Being blind/deaf/on a respirator/<fill in the blank> isn't shameful, and I don't think it should be treated as such.

For some it is a constant reminder that their child is not typical and never will be. We all have soft spots and vulnerabilities. Haven't we all snapped at our child when he asks (for the umpteenth time) "why". It can be like that 24/7/365/20+ years for parents of a child with a disability. Sometimes, we just run out of patience and don't want to be the educational/teaching moment for your child because we have already had the same conversation 17 times today already and 36 times yesterday and 23 times the day before that........ Talk to us like you would anyone else. At the swimming pool, talk about the weather, or whatever else you talk about with parents of non-SN children.

I think we have a disconnect. I'm not talking about asking you questions. A PP above seemed to have a problem overhearing (in an elevator for example) and explanation about what Braille bumps are. It's not even clear that the PP is blind. Yes, I completely understand not wanting to BE a teaching moment, and not wanting to be asked personally about your dog/wheelchair/walker/hearing aid/whatever. But I can't fathom being offended by OVERHEARING a teaching moment, presented in a kind manner by a parent.

[Anonymous]

<

If you want to know more about my kid, great, but then you can stick around to really get to know her. Like she does ballet, horsebackriding, is going into second grade, loves certain tv shows. Not just what caused her condition and what her hardware is about.>>




+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I am this mom. I don't go to the pool every day, and I have a daughter, but otherwise this is me.

I can't believe people are advising you to stay away. I know in my case, I have been a member of my pool for 4 years. People don't greet us, they don't say hi to us. They have seen us repeatedly but they act like they don't know us. I feel like we are invisible to them except that we are putting on a show as Special Needs Madonna and Child.

What I want (and again I only speak for myself), is for parents and children at our pool to SAY HELLO TO US. SAY OUR NAMES. Hi Larla! Hi Larlette! Are you having fun at the pool!

You can ask anything you want about my child's disability. I have absolutely no problem with that and if your children are curious, that's not a problem either. I would much rather answer questions than the total silence that reigns when I enter the pool, the looks of pity, and the times that people do talk to me as if I'm some sort of Mother Teresa and so, so wonderful to take my daughter to the pool. I'm a MOM taking my CHILD to the pool. End of story. I happen to carry her because she can't walk.

I'm a first time mom of a two year old boy. He is not disabled. At this point, I see the same moms at the pool, indoor play places, story time, etc. I've found that it's very rare for another mom to introduce herself to me, and it's even rare for another mom to acknowledge us other than maybe a little nod with minimal eye contact. It strikes me as very strange, but I've gotten used to it. The moms I do talk to, I mostly had to initiate, usually by saying some dumb thing like "oh hey, I was thinking of buying that same pool bag, do you like it?" or whatever. Even then, some moms just brush me off. I think if they already have friends, they're not interested in making more. There's also the moms like me, who are bad at starting conversations, or who have almost given up even trying, so hearing a "hello" from another mom (like you) would be music to my ears. However, as socially awkward as I am, I've managed to make some acquaintances, moms I chat with when I see them around, and a couple I'm friends with on facebook. Recently, a woman I see around a lot came up to me and introduced herself. You could just try that. Just walk up to somebody and say "Hi, I've seen you here a lot recently. My name's Mary. This is Jane." I've no doubt your situation is different, so I apologize if I sound like an idiot, but if I were a mom at your pool, I'd appreciate you saying hi to me, to break the ice, you know? Regardless of your child's disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I am this mom. I don't go to the pool every day, and I have a daughter, but otherwise this is me.

I can't believe people are advising you to stay away. I know in my case, I have been a member of my pool for 4 years. People don't greet us, they don't say hi to us. They have seen us repeatedly but they act like they don't know us. I feel like we are invisible to them except that we are putting on a show as Special Needs Madonna and Child.

What I want (and again I only speak for myself), is for parents and children at our pool to SAY HELLO TO US. SAY OUR NAMES. Hi Larla! Hi Larlette! Are you having fun at the pool!

You can ask anything you want about my child's disability. I have absolutely no problem with that and if your children are curious, that's not a problem either. I would much rather answer questions than the total silence that reigns when I enter the pool, the looks of pity, and the times that people do talk to me as if I'm some sort of Mother Teresa and so, so wonderful to take my daughter to the pool. I'm a MOM taking my CHILD to the pool. End of story. I happen to carry her because she can't walk.

I'm a first time mom of a two year old boy. He is not disabled. At this point, I see the same moms at the pool, indoor play places, story time, etc. I've found that it's very rare for another mom to introduce herself to me, and it's even rare for another mom to acknowledge us other than maybe a little nod with minimal eye contact. It strikes me as very strange, but I've gotten used to it. The moms I do talk to, I mostly had to initiate, usually by saying some dumb thing like "oh hey, I was thinking of buying that same pool bag, do you like it?" or whatever. Even then, some moms just brush me off. I think if they already have friends, they're not interested in making more. There's also the moms like me, who are bad at starting conversations, or who have almost given up even trying, so hearing a "hello" from another mom (like you) would be music to my ears. However, as socially awkward as I am, I've managed to make some acquaintances, moms I chat with when I see them around, and a couple I'm friends with on facebook. Recently, a woman I see around a lot came up to me and introduced herself. You could just try that. Just walk up to somebody and say "Hi, I've seen you here a lot recently. My name's Mary. This is Jane." I've no doubt your situation is different, so I apologize if I sound like an idiot, but if I were a mom at your pool, I'd appreciate you saying hi to me, to break the ice, you know? Regardless of your child's disability.

I get that you are well meaning but you have no idea how many barriers there are -- literal and psychological -- when you have a disabled child.

[Anonymous]

This is such an interesting thread. I have a SN daughter who is not at all visibly SN. However, she has gone to several inclusion schools and camps with other SN kids, some of whom have been severely physically and/or mentally disabled. We also have an older, NT daughter who has gone to some of these programs and gone with me to drop off and pick up at others. Neither of my daughters have EVER asked what is "wrong" with another child, and have never treated any of these other children or parents unlike any other children or parents. I think this mostly has to do with consistent exposure to diversity of all kinds, and honesty about all of our limitations and differences as human beings. It really hasn't been anything I have deliberately done, other than consistently answered questions with 'everyone is different. some people are small, some people are big, some people need glasses, some people need wheelchairs, some people can talk easily, some people can't' and pointed out ways in which people in our own family or who they know well are different (mommy can't eat certain foods, daddy gets migraines, grammie has glasses, your cousin has ADHD, etc. etc.). I have been so touched to hear one of my kids - say "Susie doesn't talk, she squeaks" after introducing me to a non-verbal friend in a wheelchair in the same way that they would say "Samantha has brown hair" or "Jacob likes Star Wars" (although interestingly she said this about Susie after we walked away, not in front of her). I have been told by child development experts that children process differences but verbalizing them (i.e., that child has brown skin) and that they should not be scolded for noticing those differences. When my children point out differences matter-of-factly, I do not make a big deal out of it but simply say "yep!" When my daughter said her friend talked by squeaking I said "that's interesting!" and asked her other questions about her friend and her day - what they played, if they had fun at the activity, etc. I have noticed my kids staring a few times, and I try to redirect their attention if I think it is obvious and could make the child or parent uncomfortable. In those situations, I talk later with my child and say "I noticed you looking at X, was it a little scary to see a child who can't do the same things that a lot of children can do?" and we talk about it. I have found that it is usually that they are wondering what that would be like for them to be in that situation - and it's an opportunity for me to talk to them about how that child is just a child who happens to have whatever physical limitation they noticed.

And I'd say, talk to other mothers at the pool with disabled children, or not, just as you would any other mother and child. THAT is what truly will teach your children to be comfortable about, and valuing of, all of the differences that exist out there. I empathize, however, because we all can be uncomfortable with unfamiliar experiences and differences we can't fully understand. You just have to make an effort to remember that it could be any one of us faced with that particular challenge, and treat people accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I am this mom. I don't go to the pool every day, and I have a daughter, but otherwise this is me.

I can't believe people are advising you to stay away. I know in my case, I have been a member of my pool for 4 years. People don't greet us, they don't say hi to us. They have seen us repeatedly but they act like they don't know us. I feel like we are invisible to them except that we are putting on a show as Special Needs Madonna and Child.

What I want (and again I only speak for myself), is for parents and children at our pool to SAY HELLO TO US. SAY OUR NAMES. Hi Larla! Hi Larlette! Are you having fun at the pool!

You can ask anything you want about my child's disability. I have absolutely no problem with that and if your children are curious, that's not a problem either. I would much rather answer questions than the total silence that reigns when I enter the pool, the looks of pity, and the times that people do talk to me as if I'm some sort of Mother Teresa and so, so wonderful to take my daughter to the pool. I'm a MOM taking my CHILD to the pool. End of story. I happen to carry her because she can't walk.

I'm a first time mom of a two year old boy. He is not disabled. At this point, I see the same moms at the pool, indoor play places, story time, etc. I've found that it's very rare for another mom to introduce herself to me, and it's even rare for another mom to acknowledge us other than maybe a little nod with minimal eye contact. It strikes me as very strange, but I've gotten used to it. The moms I do talk to, I mostly had to initiate, usually by saying some dumb thing like "oh hey, I was thinking of buying that same pool bag, do you like it?" or whatever. Even then, some moms just brush me off. I think if they already have friends, they're not interested in making more. There's also the moms like me, who are bad at starting conversations, or who have almost given up even trying, so hearing a "hello" from another mom (like you) would be music to my ears. However, as socially awkward as I am, I've managed to make some acquaintances, moms I chat with when I see them around, and a couple I'm friends with on facebook. Recently, a woman I see around a lot came up to me and introduced herself. You could just try that. Just walk up to somebody and say "Hi, I've seen you here a lot recently. My name's Mary. This is Jane." I've no doubt your situation is different, so I apologize if I sound like an idiot, but if I were a mom at your pool, I'd appreciate you saying hi to me, to break the ice, you know? Regardless of your child's disability.

Do you understand when your child is different people shy or run away from you? Do you realize what it is like to have good mom friends for a few years and then once you get the diagnosis, you get dropped. Yes, many don't reach out, but you learn quickly that your child, because they are a bit different are not wanted, so their is no point in reaching as no one wants to deal with your child (even if they are a great kid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are talking about me, please come over to us. I would love to have some company at the pool. And if you are not talking about us anyway, I bet this other mom would too. And her son is probably of normal or even high intelligence.

So what's your point? She shouldn't feel uncomfortable because the kid is probably just physically disabled? If the kid was intellectually disabled then then she shouldn't bother or steer clear? You just said the most thoughtless comments I have read on this thread.

--mom of an intellectually disabled kid

To the OP...I like it when people approach me and my kid. I'm aware that it's awkward for people to break the ice because they don't want to offend. I cut people who mean well a lot of slack. That said, good ice breakers I've heard are simple hi's, compliments on clothes, observations on what we are doing, comments on the weather or pool temp, or questions about toys or stuff we have with us. Referring to my kid as an angel makes me feel weird. Ignoring us is awful but more bearable than directed rudeness.

Good luck! The more you get to know families with SN the less weird it seems. It's actual a pretty normal life for myself and most other SN families I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP. WOW!!!
I appreciate all the answers, because this is what it is about.
Please realize that I framed my question highlighting the barriers or difficulties I may experience when interacting with this mom. Of course we do have a lot of common! Having to deal with the rude pool staff, suffering the rowdy kids who often put us off going in the water, the nice neighborhood we live in, or just being a mom or a human being or whatever, there are many ways I can start small talk!
And yes, it is because I realize that I or anybody could have had a SN child that I have an enormous respect for her.

I knew some people would feel offended, but please realize I am probably not the only one who can feel insecure, esp not knowing how you will take it when my own kids stare, and for this reason, out of respect, keep distance with you.

Of course not holding the rude or saying hi is just plain rude, but I feel that this is a different topic.

The posters who jumped all over OP are illustrating one reason why people don't approach others with SN...they are so afraid of offending! It feels safer to do nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are talking about me, please come over to us. I would love to have some company at the pool. And if you are not talking about us anyway, I bet this other mom would too. And her son is probably of normal or even high intelligence.

So what's your point? She shouldn't feel uncomfortable because the kid is probably just physically disabled? If the kid was intellectually disabled then then she shouldn't bother or steer clear? You just said the most thoughtless comments I have read on this thread.

--mom of an intellectually disabled kid

To the OP...I like it when people approach me and my kid. I'm aware that it's awkward for people to break the ice because they don't want to offend. I cut people who mean well a lot of slack. That said, good ice breakers I've heard are simple hi's, compliments on clothes, observations on what we are doing, comments on the weather or pool temp, or questions about toys or stuff we have with us. Referring to my kid as an angel makes me feel weird. Ignoring us is awful but more bearable than directed rudeness.

Good luck! The more you get to know families with SN the less weird it seems. It's actual a pretty normal life for myself and most other SN families I know.

It was not meant the way you are taking it. My child is motorically disabled and nonverbal. In such situations, outsiders direct conversations and questions to me almost exclusively, treating my child like some sort of potted plant. They don't even bother to say hello before asking "What's wrong with her? I did not intend my statement to slam the intellectually disabled. I wanted people to think more about her personhood.

However, please accept my apologies for my poorly chosen choice of phrase. I can see how it could give offense and I'll think more about what I say in the future. Please don't let this get you down, fellow SN Mom. Have a great day.

[Anonymous]

I say talk to her!!! I am sure she feels lonely and I don't think it's inappropriate to ask questions...maybe not off the bat, but after a few contacts. I can't believe people are advising you to stay away! I don't have any problem with your post...I don't feel it is rude. You are trying to glean information. At least she is trying, people. geesh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the OP. WOW!!!
I appreciate all the answers, because this is what it is about.
Please realize that I framed my question highlighting the barriers or difficulties I may experience when interacting with this mom. Of course we do have a lot of common! Having to deal with the rude pool staff, suffering the rowdy kids who often put us off going in the water, the nice neighborhood we live in, or just being a mom or a human being or whatever, there are many ways I can start small talk!
And yes, it is because I realize that I or anybody could have had a SN child that I have an enormous respect for her.

I knew some people would feel offended, but please realize I am probably not the only one who can feel insecure, esp not knowing how you will take it when my own kids stare, and for this reason, out of respect, keep distance with you.

Of course not holding the rude or saying hi is just plain rude, but I feel that this is a different topic.

The posters who jumped all over OP are illustrating one reason why people don't approach others with SN...they are so afraid of offending! It feels safer to do nothing.

There are plenty of posts indicating a non intrusive way of approaching. You see what you want to see.

"Is this chair taken?"
"Hi, I saw you here yesterday. We seem to be on the same schedule."
"I love it when cherries are in season, I brought a ton, would you like some?"
"I love the way the water makes my kids so tired, they fall asleep by 8:00pm"
"Can you believe this weather?"
"This afternoon, we are going the the library's program on turtles."

"We just joined the pool, do you know what happens on the 4th?"
"We have been members here for x years, I haven't seen you here before, have we just missed each other or is this your first season?"
"We are new here, are you familiar with Adams ES?"

[Anonymous]

Really the bottom line is that parents of SN kids are individuals with unique likes and dislikes, just like all other parents. Some of us are introverted, some not, some are assholes, some are fun, some will get annoyed if you ask what's up with their kid, some won't, etc etc.

My question is: why do you want to talk to this woman in the first place? Would you be interested in being her friend if she didn't have a SN kid? Is there something about HER specifically, not related to her kid, that makes you think you might hit it off? If she just seems like a cool woman you want to hang with, talk to her like you would any other typical mom with typical kids. If you are just feeling sorry for her because you think her life must suck and you are going to do her the grand favor of paying her some attention, eh....maybe you should stay away.

If you do approach her, she may not care to speak to you and ignore you, or you may end up BFF....who knows. That's the risk you run when reaching out to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are talking about me, please come over to us. I would love to have some company at the pool. And if you are not talking about us anyway, I bet this other mom would too. And her son is probably of normal or even high intelligence.

So what's your point? She shouldn't feel uncomfortable because the kid is probably just physically disabled? If the kid was intellectually disabled then then she shouldn't bother or steer clear? You just said the most thoughtless comments I have read on this thread.

--mom of an intellectually disabled kid

To the OP...I like it when people approach me and my kid. I'm aware that it's awkward for people to break the ice because they don't want to offend. I cut people who mean well a lot of slack. That said, good ice breakers I've heard are simple hi's, compliments on clothes, observations on what we are doing, comments on the weather or pool temp, or questions about toys or stuff we have with us. Referring to my kid as an angel makes me feel weird. Ignoring us is awful but more bearable than directed rudeness.

Good luck! The more you get to know families with SN the less weird it seems. It's actual a pretty normal life for myself and most other SN families I know.

It was not meant the way you are taking it. My child is motorically disabled and nonverbal. In such situations, outsiders direct conversations and questions to me almost exclusively, treating my child like some sort of potted plant. They don't even bother to say hello before asking "What's wrong with her? I did not intend my statement to slam the intellectually disabled. I wanted people to think more about her personhood.

However, please accept my apologies for my poorly chosen choice of phrase. I can see how it could give offense and I'll think more about what I say in the future. Please don't let this get you down, fellow SN Mom. Have a great day.

My kids are NT and i teach them not to talk about other people as if they were objects, including each other. It's part of teaching them to be polite to not talk about other people as if they are things. My parents used to say, "Who's 'she,' the cat's mother?" and I never got that it was a lesson in being polite until i was an adult.

A lot of what people are doing on this thread that is offensive applies across the board in terms of manners. You just don't ask questions about someone right in front of them, whether they have SN or not. These people's kids are just plain rude. They don't have to be educated on what it's like to have a SN kid -- they just need to be taught everyday manners that we all use. That would cover it. Same with OP.