Ways to make life move forward when everyone else is having babies and you aren't and probably won't

[Anonymous]

Oh, give me a break. If the forum police had their way, nobody who ever eventually got pregnant would ever be able to participate. And heaven forbid anyone who has secondary infertility ever voice an opinion. Any comment that contains the words "we eventually were successful" is usually followed by at least one person wondering why someone who HAS A BABY has the gall to share any opinion or experience at all.

As you pointed out, this forum is for support AND discussion. (You are the one who persists in calling people naive and then saying that your opinion is just part of the discussion, right?) If you find that you are reading too many cliches, maybe you need to spend a little less time on infertility forums.

Please, give us all a break from this argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, you are missing the point of the thread. The point of the thread was not "how can I avoid receiving the same suggestions over and over again?" The point of the thread was how to move forward. People are trying to share how they found meaning and happiness EVEN THOUGH THEY COULDN'T HAVE BABIES.

If you want to be stuck forever rolling your eyes at how cliche it is when people suggest that you volunteer with kids or be involved with friends' kids or relatives, then maybe you shouldn't click on a thread where the OP is asking for suggestions about making life move forward.

The poster who suggested "being an aunt" admitted that he/she has not struggled with infertility. And so was invalidating the difference between being a parent and being tangentially involved as another adult in a child's life.

This is not the forum to come and throw around cliches we've all heard. If someone wants to come and make the OP feel like OTHERS get it even though someone clueless decided she needed to hear the same crap for the 100th time, that is also part of being on a forum.

Being an aunt is not a way to move on--you STILL have to mourn not being a parent. They. Are. Not. The. Same.

Maybe you should leave the infertility forum support to people who actually understand infertility and the myriad of complexities and emotions involved.

Oh, give me a break. If the forum police had their way, nobody who ever eventually got pregnant would ever be able to participate. And heaven forbid anyone who has secondary infertility ever voice an opinion. Any comment that contains the words "we eventually were successful" is usually followed by at least one person wondering why someone who HAS A BABY has the gall to share any opinion or experience at all.

As you pointed out, this forum is for support AND discussion. (You are the one who persists in calling people naive and then saying that your opinion is just part of the discussion, right?) If you find that you are reading too many cliches, maybe you need to spend a little less time on infertility forums.

Actually, the PP you are responding to is NOT the PP who made the comments about being naive. I'm the one who said the auntie poster was naive. But I didn't make the comment above.

Shocker, though, that other people agree.

I can't believe you are suggesting that it's fine for people with kids to post on infertility forums but infertile people should spend less time on them. That really makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Have you really thought about life without kids -- outside of the context of infertility? I look back on our life before kids -- we had them late -- after years of trying. We were extremely busy and had lots of fun. We traveled. We biked. We went to the country. We spent weeks at the beach (telecommuting) We entertained, sailed, fished, hiked, ate gourmet dinners whenever we felt like it. Took the boat out, rode our horses, visited family, entertained, maintained a second home... Do we sound rich? We weren't -- we just did not have kids.
I know the desire to have kids is a strong one, but there is defiantly a full life without them -- if only you can perceive it. With kids, life is very regimented, it is a lot of work, and a 22 year commitment. Also expensive. You really need to have child free friends to understand what life can be without kids. Just a thought...

I wrote this. I don't mean to say that I was not in pain at the time. I was in great pain and half the time did not really enjoy much of anything. I cried a lot. But moving around, doing something is better than not doing anything. (at least for me) It is a terrible life pain -- a grief that can so easily turn into depression. I have to say that being an "auntie" was not really an option. I found that the friends with little children were very absorbed and protective of their time and involvement with their kids and that is was very painful to be around them. It seemed like their whole LIVES turned around those kids. We did have children (finally! so late in life...) and now, nearly 18 years later, I can say that we would have been OK without kids. But that was certainly not our perspective at the time.
OP, all I can say is be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to heal.

I'm the PP that everyone is attacking because I said the "be an auntie!" suggestion isn't helpful, and this has been exactly my experience. The thing is that that "be a great auntie" really only works if the situation arises organically. It's not really something a person can go out and do intentionally.

I'm sure the PPs who find fulfillment in being a good aunt have found something that works for them, but they have to realize that that is also a bit of luck. Some people don't have a lot of nieces and nephews or don't have friends or family with kids who will really let you play anything but a sort of superficial role in their kids' lives.

It's why I find the suggestion kind of useless.

As for the PP who says her sibling distanced herself from her kids and now at retirement is trying to reestablish relationships, that's a different thing entirely. There's a HUGE difference between taking some temporary space away from people and their young kids to get some peace and perspective as opposed to disowning family or severing ties completely. And this is another problem infertile women face: Sometimes friends and family don't understand that they just need a little space, that it's not permanent and that it's not personal. But instead, said family or friends with kids gets offended and angry and then makes comments like, "She doesn't come around because she's bitter." and then that only poisons the relationship.

I feel like it would be helpful if people understood that someone dealing with infertility might need space, that it's not helpful to say things like "Well, I would think you'd WANT to be a part of my kid's life." That kind of stuff just causes hurt feelings and further divides. Again, it only then makes the infertile person want to distance even more. It's a vicious cycle.It would be better if there were understanding and compassion.

It's why some women regret ever telling friends and family that they wanted kids to begin with. Because, oddly, they'd get fewer hurtful comments if people thought they never wanted kids anyway. For some reason, people get weird when they think they have something you want.

This is really true. So many people seem to think that after your painful m/c that you would love to "practice" parenting their kids, and that is you don't then you just weren't parent material in the first place. It is such a painful time, and it is in the very prime of your life, when your friends are just "meeting all the challenges" of being new parents. Such a disconnect. You feel like the only kid who did not go to college or something. Very awkward and hurtful. Then you have the "suggestions" which if you were in a normal state of mind you would just palm off (like how about my pyramid scheme selling soaps?" but at that vulnerable time you lack the strength to say "your are crazy and NO WAY" selling soap is going to help this, but thanks anyway, loser.

I'm the PP you are responding to. I would add, what is especially odd is often, the people who suggest you be more involved with other children to offset the infertility are usually the first ones to remind you that you don't know anything because you aren't a parent if, god forbid, you actually have an opinion about something with the child in whose life you're supposed to be so involved (see the thread on what people think of their childfree friend and how the "auntie" in that post got attacked like crazy!)

I still think the original auntie poster meant well, but I think that people should know that even when they mean well, those suggestions often hurt more than help.

And the PP who says posters are "looking to be offended," that's the other problem infertile women run into. They're not allowed to be at all hurt. It's like people don't understand that until they make peace with infertility, it is a raw and open wound. Somehow people get nasty if an infertile woman gets upset or hurt. It's like infertile people are supposed to take all of the advice and suggestions but never feel emotion about their experience.

Again, this is why I ultimately regret ever letting people know we were TTC in the first place. It's better for people to think you simply chose not to have children. It's sad to say, but I really think as much as parents like to say "you don't know b/c you're not a parent," I don't think people who haven't dealt with infertility (the kind they can't overcome and so have to accept not having children) really get the process of accepting you will never have a child. I just don't know that they can. Even I can make suggestions, but I'm still holding out hope that I might have a kid. Once I've reached the last bit I'm willing to try, then it will be a process of coming to terms with deep, deep disappointment.

Anyhow, this thread has gotten off topic. I'm sorry, OP, if I was part of that. But I do think the things I've written are things that need to be expressed and things I wish other people understood b/c it might make it socially easier to deal with being infertile.

[Anonymous]

And the PP who says posters are "looking to be offended," that's the other problem infertile women run into. They're not allowed to be at all hurt. It's like people don't understand that until they make peace with infertility, it is a raw and open wound. Somehow people get nasty if an infertile woman gets upset or hurt. It's like infertile people are supposed to take all of the advice and suggestions but never feel emotion about their experience.

My infertility is over, but the pain still comes back from time to time. The m/c one is the most painful of not being allowed to be hurt. A m/c followed by a successful pregnancy just fades away with the baby and all, but when with a m/c after IVF there is a very good chance that this is it for you, it is very painful. Like it is going to take some time to get over it painful.
The other I think most hurtful is the adopt suggestion. Very complex undertaking, and maybe that is not what you wanted.
I think many women would like you to STFU so they can get on with their favorite current subject -- their baby; their kids.
It can go on for years. Like the SN forum, if you haven't ben there, it's tough to understand.

[Anonymous]

And although this is getting off topic, maybe airing these pains for the last time(s) is some small help. So sorry OP. Very, very hard.

[Anonymous]

NP here. I have one sister; she doesnt have any children either. My husband has two nieces who are both in high school. We see them on the holidays. I think it's pretty rare to have 12 nieces and nephews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8:24 here.

So I'm the one who doesn't think "be a great aunt!" is a helpful suggestion.

I've explained why.

But now I'll offer what I do think might be helpful.

First, if you are still trying, establish a firm window of time for trying and kind of an endpoint, a point at which you will stop trying (maybe this is a time frame, like one year, or maybe it is event, like one more of X treatment). It doesn't have to be "go for broke," but really just lay out in specific terms how much time and resources and energy you can reasonably give at trying before you can feel like you gave it a good shot and really need to move on.

Second, even if you are still trying, you need to emphasize all of the things that being childfree enables you to do. Get a gym membership or find a hobby or sport or an activity that you can do that would be difficult to incorporate into a life with kids. You need to feel like there are some advantages to not having a child. This is what will stem the jealousy and bitterness. Plan trips or activities -- even if you don't think they will distract you. You need to do something that isn't child-centric to see that there is life without kids.

Third, take a little break from children. I do actually think it's helpful, at least while you are grieving and still sore and hurt that you can't and don't have children, to have time away from "family life" and friends with kids.

It's not to say that at some point you won't want to be around kids again, but I do think that until you are at peace with not having kids, it isn't helpful to spend a lot of time with other people and their kids.

Fourth, find some friends who are childfree by choice. There are plenty. I think when you are trying so hard to have a kid, it feels like everyone else is either pregnant or has kids. It feels like you are the only one. Being around people who willingly don't have children is enormously refreshing. They give you a perspective you are missing -- that life can be meaningful even if you aren't a parent.

I am going through yet another miscarriage, and the reality is hitting me that even though I can get pregnant, it seems like there's a very real possibility I can't sustain a pregnancy. For a number of reasons, DE, surrogacy and even adoption aren't feasible options for us, so it is looking like we just won't have children. We have determined a set number of additional months we are going to try and we decided that if we get pregnant and miscarry again, we are done. I actually feel better knowing that there is an end to the struggle.

The other night, I went out with a couple of old friends I hadn't seen in a while. Both are childfree by CHOICE. It was just what I needed. I realized that I have had blinders on and have been entirely too focused on children, as if that is the thing that will make or break my life. Being around women who are happily childfree, not talking about children or parenting or any of that was the best thing for me. Neither of these women dislike children, but they both have meaningful, fulfilled lives that don't center around children. And it's exactly what I needed to be around.

I'm not going to disown my friends with kids, but I know that until I either have a kid OR make peace with not having them, I need to limit the time I spend around them. It's just a temporary thing, because I do believe that if I don't have a kid, I will eventually make peace with it. But I do need to have the space and the right environment to make that peace. I love my friends with kids and I love their kids, but I know I need some time away. Even unintentionally, one friend will say something like "She's all I've got" about her daughter. And it stings, because even though she doesn't mean to be hurtful, what is implied is that without a child, she has nothing. Until I'm okay with not having kids, I just need a break from that.

That's my plan. And is one that I've given a lot of thought to.

+1 This is actually great advice.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP If you are still here: You never know what having children will bring. You never know for certain how you will feel about it. After 4 years and 3 miscarriages, I finally had a beautiful baby boy. Perfect. But, for whatever reason -- bad person, I'M crazy, it took to much out of me, unhealed scars, too much work -- whatever, motherhood wasn't for me. I realized this when he turned 2. I kept waiting for the glorious love to kick in, but it never did. Fleeting through my mind was: I am sure someone would love to adopt this baby...
Now fast forward 18 years (sorry, long) He is a great kid. He is everything you would want in a son. I am so proud of him. BUT, it just never did happen for me. Motherhood just wasn't my thing at all. I know that some of you have said, so easy for you to say, when you have your longed for kid. Well, I have my kid, but it just wasn't for me.
So there is that -- maybe does not and won'r ever apply to you.
But in one last story, I was with a friend who told me, I could have done right without having kids. I was like Wahts? You are the best and most devoted mom ever.

This is a hurtful post. Maybe in real life you are a lovely person, but here you sound awful and a bit psychopathic. You couldn't enjoy your kid until he was 18 and no longer your legal responsibility? Did you ever consider therapy or child-rearing classes? I feel sorry for your son.

[Anonymous]

Op here. Going to choose my words very carefully! Thank you all for the kind words. I'm glad there is a place where people can discuss this issue which is sadly common yet so kept hidden. I think some advice here may sound simplistic to people in the trenches of infertility, and that's rubbed some readers wrong, and I don't blame them, but I don't take offense. I am coming to realize that when a person really wants a child, and can't have one, there is a void there that just may never heal or be filled in any real way. A person never 'gets over' that void. Instead, they get used to it. Just like losing a close friend, member of the family, or spouse, some voids can't be filled. Most people are the 'walking wounded' in some way, whether it's by infertility or a myriad of other reasons. It's sad, yes, but it's kinda the truth. The irony is that although infertility feels isolating, it actually makes you MORE like other people-- having experienced a big loss--- than not. You know? Infertility, and miscarriage, are all 'deaths in the family,' in a way. We're not mourning someone who died... we're mourning someone who won't be born. And that is huge. Unfortunately, our society hasn't been so open about this. That's changing. But I still think there's so much more that needs to change, starting with young women being much better educated about the continuum of puberty to menopause, and where they are along that continuum. And for reasons beyond having babies: where they are along that continuum affects all kinds of health issues, for Pete's sake! It's by nature specifically female, however, and medicine is still male-centric. We need to change that. We also need to make this a much more common topic to openly discuss, and reduce the shame and isolation surrounding it. xo to all!

[Anonymous]

OP I hope things work out for you, whatever you choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I hope things work out for you, whatever you choose.

+1 and for all those who are hurting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I'll offer my thoughts on the chance they may be useful to you although I haven't experienced infertility, so I apologize in advance if what I say is insensitive or wildly off the mark. I have suffered other major life traumas or disappointments (for lack of a better description) while surrounded by others who haven't, so extrapolating from there and probably explaining myself poorly. . . I have found that some things are better dealt with by plowing into them rather than avoiding them.

Maybe not immediately, but perhaps you might find some long term comfort in embracing a fierce role in the lives of your friends' or family's children. I mean more than just being that special auntie that brings a gift when she visits, but really being a pillar in a child's life. Ask about them, spend special one on one time with them, attend their events, be the one they turn to for advice when they're too embarrassed to talk to their own parents.

When you take the initiative to forge a relationship, it forces you outside of thinking about what you need or want or lack and makes you think, generously, of someone else. I find generally that when I hurt, I feel best when I do something good for others. It sounds facile, but it feeds my ego. Instead of thinking, "Why do bad things happen to me? What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why is life so unfair? I deserve better!" I think, "Look what a good person I am. Look how kind I am. Look how useful and necessary I am. Look what I have to offer!" It brings out my better self and gives me a sense of power in my life when I'm feeling like life has had its way with me.

It sounds so trite, now that I've written it, so maybe this is all stupid advice. But I really think you can only distract yourself from pain for so long. If you can find a way to embrace it, you might be able to transform it, at least a little, into something you can live with more easily. At least, this has been my experience.

In any case, OP, I hope you find your way to a better place. Best wishes.

I really hate when people suggest this. It doesn't work. Because guess what, parents tend to get very weird when other people (even friends and family) try to have a "fierce" role in their children's lives.

People say this all of the time in extolling the virtues of a child-free life ("Oh, but I can be the really involved auntie!!!"), but the truth of the matter is that you really don't have a lot of control over that. You can try to have a relationship with other people's children, but the extent of that relationship is really going to be determined by their parents. And my experience is that most parents will let you get their children gifts, maybe babysit once in a while, but that is where the buck stops. Anything really serious or meaningful is their domain.

That's why I really wouldn't bank on this approach as being the thing that helps you come to terms with a child-less/child-free life. You can't assume other people are going to essentially let you co-parent their children. Again, they'll let you buy gifts and dote on them. But that's usually the extent of it.

I think one instance where this could be true is if one becomes a foster parent. That is a role where you step in when the child's family can't and you provide and become that pillar. Definitely it's not a choice for everyone. Fostering doesn't need to be done with the intent to adopt and in fact more often than not, it doesn't lead to adoption because reunification is first. Some agencies allow you to sign on for emergency placements only so the duration of time a child stays is very limited but it does give one the chance to make a meaningful impact on a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP If you are still here: You never know what having children will bring. You never know for certain how you will feel about it. After 4 years and 3 miscarriages, I finally had a beautiful baby boy. Perfect. But, for whatever reason -- bad person, I'M crazy, it took to much out of me, unhealed scars, too much work -- whatever, motherhood wasn't for me. I realized this when he turned 2. I kept waiting for the glorious love to kick in, but it never did. Fleeting through my mind was: I am sure someone would love to adopt this baby...
Now fast forward 18 years (sorry, long) He is a great kid. He is everything you would want in a son. I am so proud of him. BUT, it just never did happen for me. Motherhood just wasn't my thing at all. I know that some of you have said, so easy for you to say, when you have your longed for kid. Well, I have my kid, but it just wasn't for me.
So there is that -- maybe does not and won'r ever apply to you.
But in one last story, I was with a friend who told me, I could have done right without having kids. I was like Wahts? You are the best and most devoted mom ever.

This is a hurtful post. Maybe in real life you are a lovely person, but here you sound awful and a bit psychopathic. You couldn't enjoy your kid until he was 18 and no longer your legal responsibility? Did you ever consider therapy or child-rearing classes? I feel sorry for your son.

It is a truthful post. Check out the do you regret having kids post. Yes, I did say possibly I am crazy. I am ever thankful that he is low maintenance. If I had known I would feel this way, I probably would not have had him. Many times DH and I have discussed how much of a gamble we took (having kids IS a gamble) and how lucky we are that he is even tempered and self motivating, not to mention healthy. Yes, we did try therapy and parenting classes (big help). But it did not change the basic inner feeling. I also feel sorry for my DS. And I sincerely hope he does not marry someone like his parents! It is another, and perfectly honest and realistic point of view. Sorry if it hurt your feelings. Of course we try to keep this perspective to ourselves. This is an anon board, after all.

[Anonymous]

OP: I do not mean to be hurtful, and this may be too soon for you, but in one way it is a binary choice: either you will have kids (one way or another) or you won't. If you are exploring not having them, you could try reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Dont-You-Have-Kids/dp/082174853X
which goes over various different reason (non infertility) why some couple have chosen child free living. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Going to choose my words very carefully! Thank you all for the kind words. I'm glad there is a place where people can discuss this issue which is sadly common yet so kept hidden. I think some advice here may sound simplistic to people in the trenches of infertility, and that's rubbed some readers wrong, and I don't blame them, but I don't take offense. I am coming to realize that when a person really wants a child, and can't have one, there is a void there that just may never heal or be filled in any real way. A person never 'gets over' that void. Instead, they get used to it. Just like losing a close friend, member of the family, or spouse, some voids can't be filled. Most people are the 'walking wounded' in some way, whether it's by infertility or a myriad of other reasons. It's sad, yes, but it's kinda the truth. The irony is that although infertility feels isolating, it actually makes you MORE like other people-- having experienced a big loss--- than not. You know? Infertility, and miscarriage, are all 'deaths in the family,' in a way. We're not mourning someone who died... we're mourning someone who won't be born. And that is huge. Unfortunately, our society hasn't been so open about this. That's changing. But I still think there's so much more that needs to change, starting with young women being much better educated about the continuum of puberty to menopause, and where they are along that continuum. And for reasons beyond having babies: where they are along that continuum affects all kinds of health issues, for Pete's sake! It's by nature specifically female, however, and medicine is still male-centric. We need to change that. We also need to make this a much more common topic to openly discuss, and reduce the shame and isolation surrounding it. xo to all!

Amen, sister.