Alternative to ICE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

I’m missing the part where you’re required to hire them. You’re not allowed to take adverse action based on a potential mismatch. That doesn’t mean you have to hire them. You can decide you don’t like the way they talk to you, or they’ve countered for too much money, or they’re not responsive, or any number of reasons not prohibited by law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

I’m missing the part where you’re required to hire them. You’re not allowed to take adverse action based on a potential mismatch. That doesn’t mean you have to hire them. You can decide you don’t like the way they talk to you, or they’ve countered for too much money, or they’re not responsive, or any number of reasons not prohibited by law.

Uh, if not hiring them isn't an adverse action, what is? And employers aren't going to risk lawsuits unless they have really good legal cover.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

I’m missing the part where you’re required to hire them. You’re not allowed to take adverse action based on a potential mismatch. That doesn’t mean you have to hire them. You can decide you don’t like the way they talk to you, or they’ve countered for too much money, or they’re not responsive, or any number of reasons not prohibited by law.

Uh, if not hiring them isn't an adverse action, what is? And employers aren't going to risk lawsuits unless they have really good legal cover.

Let me ask you - what illegal immigrant is going to sue you for not hiring them on the basis of an eVerify mismatch?! None, that’s who. No illegal immigrant will open themselves up to that. No one will represent them.

You know who might sue you? Citizens with an administrative paperwork problem. Who are, you know, not illegal.

Am a lawyer but not your lawyer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How to we remove overstays and undocumented persons without indiscriminately brutalizing entire populations?

I don’t know, OP. You’re always telling us about how other nations enforce their immigration laws, and they manage to do it without laying siege to entire cities, so how about you ask them? Some even manage to do it without any guns at all!

With all the data and surveillance software ICE has, they could do 99% of their jobs right from their desks, using their tools and some basic brain skills. A couple of on the ground eVerify audits would help too. You could enforce deportation orders if you had enough judges on staff to review cases and issue the orders.

The problem is some very small brained right wingers have equated effectiveness with showing force. Trump’s ICE has been a miserable failure at its stated goal of deporting dangerous criminals. They can’t even get a list to hand over to the local jails saying these are the people we want to deport - they want local officials to do their work for them so they can cosplay as war heroes on the rough streets of…check notes…rural Minnesota.

How do you vet an entrant with no record from his country of origin? A country that doesn't even have a database on half their population?

Well. . . . Pete claims they know everything there is to know about any person on those fishing boats.

[Anonymous]

Ice was maximized under Obama. The news media never cared to report about the aggressive Obama ice raids and no left wing protestors blocked ice agents from doing their job.

Illegal Immigration was something no one paid attention to until Trump and the media started making a big deal about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

I’m missing the part where you’re required to hire them. You’re not allowed to take adverse action based on a potential mismatch. That doesn’t mean you have to hire them. You can decide you don’t like the way they talk to you, or they’ve countered for too much money, or they’re not responsive, or any number of reasons not prohibited by law.

Uh, if not hiring them isn't an adverse action, what is? And employers aren't going to risk lawsuits unless they have really good legal cover.

Let me ask you - what illegal immigrant is going to sue you for not hiring them on the basis of an eVerify mismatch?! None, that’s who. No illegal immigrant will open themselves up to that. No one will represent them.

You know who might sue you? Citizens with an administrative paperwork problem. Who are, you know, not illegal.

Am a lawyer but not your lawyer

As a Lawyer you should know there are ones that specialize in representing illegal immigrants against employers. They can (and have) sued for employers not hiring them based on "status discrimination"

https://lauraleonlaw.com/en/our-services/illegal-immigrant-rights/

People like to say "blame the people that hire them" without knowing how dumb the laws actually are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

We've had that before with limited success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ice was maximized under Obama. The news media never cared to report about the aggressive Obama ice raids and no left wing protestors blocked ice agents from doing their job.

Illegal Immigration was something no one paid attention to until Trump and the media started making a big deal about it

Because ICE was operating under proper leadership under Obama. They carefully coordinated their efforts to detain and deport criminal aliens with very swift and very specific to one or two people operations. American citizens applaud the removal of criminal aliens when done professionally under proper leadership. Sending 2k Federal agents to a single city with half of those agents being poorly trained idiots and giving them a green light to harass anyone who appears "illegal" is not comparable to the professional acts of ICE under Obama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ice was maximized under Obama. The news media never cared to report about the aggressive Obama ice raids and no left wing protestors blocked ice agents from doing their job.

Illegal Immigration was something no one paid attention to until Trump and the media started making a big deal about it

Because ICE was operating under proper leadership under Obama. They carefully coordinated their efforts to detain and deport criminal aliens with very swift and very specific to one or two people operations. American citizens applaud the removal of criminal aliens when done professionally under proper leadership. Sending 2k Federal agents to a single city with half of those agents being poorly trained idiots and giving them a green light to harass anyone who appears "illegal" is not comparable to the professional acts of ICE under Obama.

Maybe they wouldn’t need to send the federal agents if the State leadership would coordinate efforts vs stoking the flames

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
ICE has to appear at the businesses to pick up illegals, and again Democrats will be in the streets obstructing them.

Why are you worried about the undocument immigrants who are busy working?

Just go after the ones you know have committed a violent crime. (They probably aren't working anyhow.)

The guys who are just working in a meatpacking plant or landscaping crews are just trying to raise money and take care of their families. Take all your manpower and just go after the actual criminals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

I’m missing the part where you’re required to hire them. You’re not allowed to take adverse action based on a potential mismatch. That doesn’t mean you have to hire them. You can decide you don’t like the way they talk to you, or they’ve countered for too much money, or they’re not responsive, or any number of reasons not prohibited by law.

Uh, if not hiring them isn't an adverse action, what is? And employers aren't going to risk lawsuits unless they have really good legal cover.

Let me ask you - what illegal immigrant is going to sue you for not hiring them on the basis of an eVerify mismatch?! None, that’s who. No illegal immigrant will open themselves up to that. No one will represent them.

You know who might sue you? Citizens with an administrative paperwork problem. Who are, you know, not illegal.

Am a lawyer but not your lawyer

As a Lawyer you should know there are ones that specialize in representing illegal immigrants against employers. They can (and have) sued for employers not hiring them based on "status discrimination"

https://lauraleonlaw.com/en/our-services/illegal-immigrant-rights/

People like to say "blame the people that hire them" without knowing how dumb the laws actually are.

No, they are not dumb. If you are going to employ illegal immigrants who do not have authorization to work, you cannot treat them like slaves, you cannot withhold their wages, you cannot force them to work in unsafe conditions, and you can’t hire them only to treat them worse because they are undocumented.

If treating undocumented workers fairly and like humans bothers you, DON’T HIRE UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS. How do you know they are undocumented? Repeat after me, kids: E-VERIFY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
ICE has to appear at the businesses to pick up illegals, and again Democrats will be in the streets obstructing them.

Why are you worried about the undocument immigrants who are busy working?

Just go after the ones you know have committed a violent crime. (They probably aren't working anyhow.)

The guys who are just working in a meatpacking plant or landscaping crews are just trying to raise money and take care of their families. Take all your manpower and just go after the actual criminals.

To do that, ICE has to admit that one of two things are true: (1) they are too incompetent to find the criminals, despite claiming the criminals terrorizing everyone on the streets; or (2) they got all the criminals, and the danger doesn’t exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

I’m missing the part where you’re required to hire them. You’re not allowed to take adverse action based on a potential mismatch. That doesn’t mean you have to hire them. You can decide you don’t like the way they talk to you, or they’ve countered for too much money, or they’re not responsive, or any number of reasons not prohibited by law.

Uh, if not hiring them isn't an adverse action, what is? And employers aren't going to risk lawsuits unless they have really good legal cover.

Let me ask you - what illegal immigrant is going to sue you for not hiring them on the basis of an eVerify mismatch?! None, that’s who. No illegal immigrant will open themselves up to that. No one will represent them.

You know who might sue you? Citizens with an administrative paperwork problem. Who are, you know, not illegal.

Am a lawyer but not your lawyer

As a Lawyer you should know there are ones that specialize in representing illegal immigrants against employers. They can (and have) sued for employers not hiring them based on "status discrimination"

https://lauraleonlaw.com/en/our-services/illegal-immigrant-rights/

People like to say "blame the people that hire them" without knowing how dumb the laws actually are.

No, they are not dumb. If you are going to employ illegal immigrants who do not have authorization to work, you cannot treat them like slaves, you cannot withhold their wages, you cannot force them to work in unsafe conditions, and you can’t hire them only to treat them worse because they are undocumented.

If treating undocumented workers fairly and like humans bothers you, DON’T HIRE UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS. How do you know they are undocumented? Repeat after me, kids: E-VERIFY.

Again, if they fail e-verify that is not considered proof they are not legal. I can not use that failure as a reason to not hire them. There is no legal way for me to know they are undocumented. How can I be penalized for hiring someone that I’m not allowed to question? Please tell me how I’m supposed to know and I’ll do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to overhaul the legal process. They need to structure it so it is open to all and not just people of higher means. The government needs to stop going after undocumented immigrants and start going after businesses. If you make it impossible to get work here, people will not come. They are coming to improve their lives and the lives of their children. Break the ability to earn money and they won’t come.

As an employer I am not allowed to question work documents even if I suspect they are fake. What can you go after the businesses for? You can’t say they knowingly hired an illegal immigrant if they’re not allowed to question if they are legal…..

E-Verify. It’s not perfect, but it will catch your obvious fakers.

Read the rules, if I get a mis match I can’t use that to deny the job. I still must hire them and give them the "opportunity to correct". How does that make sense?

I’m sorry what’s the issue here? Paperwork mistakes happen. They happened pre DOGE and they are certainly happening now. People shouldn’t lose jobs over it.

Seems like a small inconvenience to make sure you are not hiring an illegal is preferable to hiring them and then watching them get disappeared the night before your biggest business day of the year. The fact that more employers don’t use it is telling.

The issue is even with an mis match I’m required to hire them. The start of this thread was "go after the business for hiring them". How can you go after the business for hiring them when I’m not allowed to deny or question them? You can’t have it both ways.

If you don’t want someone to hire them, give that business the right to say no.

I’m missing the part where you’re required to hire them. You’re not allowed to take adverse action based on a potential mismatch. That doesn’t mean you have to hire them. You can decide you don’t like the way they talk to you, or they’ve countered for too much money, or they’re not responsive, or any number of reasons not prohibited by law.

Uh, if not hiring them isn't an adverse action, what is? And employers aren't going to risk lawsuits unless they have really good legal cover.

Let me ask you - what illegal immigrant is going to sue you for not hiring them on the basis of an eVerify mismatch?! None, that’s who. No illegal immigrant will open themselves up to that. No one will represent them.

You know who might sue you? Citizens with an administrative paperwork problem. Who are, you know, not illegal.

Am a lawyer but not your lawyer

As a Lawyer you should know there are ones that specialize in representing illegal immigrants against employers. They can (and have) sued for employers not hiring them based on "status discrimination"

https://lauraleonlaw.com/en/our-services/illegal-immigrant-rights/

People like to say "blame the people that hire them" without knowing how dumb the laws actually are.

No, they are not dumb. If you are going to employ illegal immigrants who do not have authorization to work, you cannot treat them like slaves, you cannot withhold their wages, you cannot force them to work in unsafe conditions, and you can’t hire them only to treat them worse because they are undocumented.

If treating undocumented workers fairly and like humans bothers you, DON’T HIRE UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS. How do you know they are undocumented? Repeat after me, kids: E-VERIFY.

Again, if they fail e-verify that is not considered proof they are not legal. I can not use that failure as a reason to not hire them. There is no legal way for me to know they are undocumented. How can I be penalized for hiring someone that I’m not allowed to question? Please tell me how I’m supposed to know and I’ll do it.

From what I understand this does not take long to resolve. But I’m sure it’s part of the details that can be worked out - you’re only liable if you employ them after the final confirmation comes back.