Forum Index
»
Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS)
CogAT this year for 2nd grade
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
|
Anonymous
Fine, we're not talking about my kid. What's with the snotty attitude? Anyway, you're still wrong. Kids who are held back or who are red-shirted do not have an advantage --they take the test once and they are given age-based scaled scores. Your response is that we're talking about kids who REPEAT second grade and get to take the same test twice?? How many kids do you know who are repeating second grade for this purpose? Apparently there's been ONE? |
Anonymous
I've heard/read nothing about "age based scaled scores." Where is this information. That's one example that I cited. Do you know all the kids and parents in all the schools? If not, then shut your hole. |
Anonymous
LOL What I wrote is about kids who EITHER score high on standardized tests (and may have a high I.Q which further testing may confirm) -OR- score high on the GBRS (which means they probably also do really well in school), but don't score high enough on BOTH. I wrote, "There are problems with requiring high scores for BOTH standardized tests AND GBRS." I didn't write that kids who don't score well on either one may still be gifted. GBRS is a rating scale. If a child performs really well in school he or she is more likely to rate well on a GBRS. Some of these children will score really high on a NNAT or CogAT and some won't. Children who score well on NNAT or CogAT may not necessarily perform well in school and therefore may not get a "high" rating on the GBRS. Yet, if they scored high enough on NNAT or CogAT, he or she may still very well have a high I.Q. Requiring BOTH high standardized test scores AND a high GBRS may leave out gifted children who scored well in one category but not the other. Some of those kids still need something other than a "regular" school environment. But, ya know, video games ROCK! So with that in mind, I may need to switch my argument entirely... |
Anonymous
|
To PP with 115-125 score range; you might want to have your DC privately tested to see if DC is truly gifted with high IQ? You will get a complete picture of your DC’s true ability. It’s not fair that lot of these kids with marginal scores are pushed in by push parents. My DC is in 5th grade AAP and the program is very challenging. Your DC may/may not struggle in higher grade. While 115-125 is not bad, your DC is competing with kids with 140 plus scores. Yes, I hear you-DC had a great GBRS score but GBRS is very subjective scoring system. My DC was in the pool with a score range 129-138 but received low GBRS score. I did not appeal and did level 3 GT at base school in 3rs grade. Following year, with recommendation from GT specialist and scores from private testing (scores 99%-99.99%), DC got in After going through this process, I felt confident to send DC to AAP center because I realized that DC truly belong to AAP center. Please don’t take this wrong way. I am just another concerned parents.
|
Anonymous
|
PP: There is no need to privately test, it will not change anything. I do not push my DD....it was the school that encouraged us to submit the paperwork....they though that she belonged in the AAP program. Based on my experience as a youth softball coach (5 seasons), my daughter is is one of the quicker ones out there. She also gets a lot of anxiety.
She had an IEP for speach issues, and anxiety issues. Because of her anxiety, she gets really nervous in tests -- the teachers recognized it, and there was supposed to be accommodation during the NNAT and CogAT's. That did not happen. Oh, and there are not that many kids with an IQ over 140 in the AAP program...that would be the upper 1%, and 15% of the county is admitted. Fairfax county may be smart, but not that smart (15 percent of th kids do not have 140+ IQ's). 15% might score better than 130 on one section of the CogAT's, thoguh. SO far, she is doing fine in the AAP program. |
Anonymous
OMG. More proof that civilized discussion isn't possible on DCUM. Do you speak to people that way IRL? Does one need to know every child and parent in FCPS in order to contribute to the conversation? Do you? I don't know why I'm bothering to answer your question, but maybe someone else is wondering. The age-based scaled scores are printed right on the score sheet, and those are the numbers they use for screening. But you go right ahead believing your observation that kids who are held back from starting school on time have a testing advantage because of their age. Not going to argue with you about it. 
|
Anonymous
|
Primary reason: measurement error
This is a first person example....going back to when I was in middle school. We had moved to a new area, and they gave an 'IQ' test to place me in school. At that time, we did not have furniture (it was in transit), so I was sleeping on the floor. The day we went to register for school, my sister was sick and I was worried about her. The scool took me into a room, and gave me this test. I remember it well. I scored 118 on it, and was placed in the average class. Because of my scores, one year later, the guidance counselor decided that I should go to vocational school. He would not recommend me for the college track. My parents appealed, teachers agreed with my parents: not based on performance (I was bored out of my mind and not working, and the teachers saw that). I was privately evaluated, and scored several standard deviations above 118. (around 150). i was placed in the advancd group (which was a big deal, because that was how to take Algebra in the 8th grade). Four years later, I scored 760 on my math SAT's Fast forward 32 years, I completed college in a branch of physical sciences, got a PhD Computational Physics, and have been successful in my career. the 118, which almost changed anything was a bad data point, and not representative of true ability. |
Anonymous
I knw children that were help back at the start of K, usually because the parents did not think the child was ready for K. Occasionally, to give a sports advantage. I have never heard of it being done for academic reasons. |
Anonymous
so now we have two good excuses for scoring low on Cogts/IQ: we got a puppy and I had to sleep on the floor last night and my sister was sick. Maybe FFX should include language in the notice of the test to the effect: caution getting a puppy or sleeping on the floor may knock 15 to 20 points off your test results. |
Anonymous
|
PP: life is not perfect. Stuff happens. That is why in the sciences, you take multiple measurements.
FCPS recognizes that. And I think that is appropriate. If you have a problem with your DC being corrupted by people with lower CogAT scores, then I suggest you move to a more exclusive school system. IMHO, any child that might be able to handle the work intellectually should be given the chance. And that is the approach by FCPS. I would rather see a child struggle in the AAP program, than lose the next Einstein due to bordom. |
Anonymous
|
sobering anecdote above. Imagine one's life almost ruined by one bad data point. Thank goodness a private evaluation revealed the truth - presumably she got a good night's sleep the night before and her sister wasn't sick.
Not sure FCPS is looking for the next Einstein, but he probably would have been bored in GT too. They're only about one year ahead of the regular kids in math. |
Anonymous
I think it is often done for academic reasons, and there may be some advantages in the first couple of years. However, all of the studies show that any advantage has dissipated by 3rd grade, and the redshirted kids are on par with their classmates by that point. There is no academic advantage for redshirted kids in upper elementary and beyond. BUT - the relevant point here is that being a year older than your classmates in 2nd grade does not boost your CogAT or NNAT scores. The scores are scaled based on age. They are nationally-scaled scores and percentiles, so older kids are scored against other older kids across the country, and younger kids against younger kids. Even in a classroom with NO redshirted children, there can still be a one-year age gap (a child who makes the cutoff by one day, a child who missed it last year's cutoff by one day, and all the kids in between) and the scoring accounts for that age difference. |
Anonymous
|
PP: this is good information to have. In 1st grade you definitely see a difference between kids who are 6 months or so apart - and my DC is one of the younger ones in his class.
"BUT - the relevant point here is that being a year older than your classmates in 2nd grade does not boost your CogAT or NNAT scores. The scores are scaled based on age. They are nationally-scaled scores and percentiles, so older kids are scored against other older kids across the country, and younger kids against younger kids. Even in a classroom with NO redshirted children, there can still be a one-year age gap (a child who makes the cutoff by one day, a child who missed it last year's cutoff by one day, and all the kids in between) and the scoring accounts for that age difference. " |
Anonymous
|
I think it is an advantage to be younger with regards to the test. If you are one of the older students, you hit a ceiling on the scores. For example, my son got 48 out of 48 correct on two sections of the CogAT. Yet his scores on those sections were only in the 140s (145? 148?). His other scores were in the 120's so his overall score wasn't as high as it might have been had he been younger. (A younger student with a perfect score would have gotten in the 150s.)
While his score is accurate compared to those students across the country who are his age (he has an October birthday), when compared to students in his grade here in Fairfax County who would be his classmates, they don't look as good as someone who is younger than he who got a perfect score. Just a thought for someone whose child has a late birthday and is worried about it. |