CogAT this year for 2nd grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's with all the hypotheticals? Go read the AAP site. Of course kids not in the pool make it in and vice versa. Otherwise, the entire process would end at the pool.

would that be a bad thing?

[Anonymous]

Yes, it would. Testing is only one measurement of a child's abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it would. Testing is only one measurement of a child's abilities.

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It happens.

Based on what reason?

Based on about 2/3 of the kids in the second grade pool get in to AAP.

[Anonymous]

Agree - testing is only one measurement.

I have no problem considering kids who don't make the cutoff's for AAP BUT I really think that a 100% of those making the cut-off should be selected and not just make it the pool.


Not being selected for AAP even with a high CoGAT/NNAT scores, only opens the system to favoritism and compromises the integrity of the whole selection process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree - testing is only one measurement.

I have no problem considering kids who don't make the cutoff's for AAP BUT I really think that a 100% of those making the cut-off should be selected and not just make it the pool.


Not being selected for AAP even with a high CoGAT/NNAT scores, only opens the system to favoritism and compromises the integrity of the whole selection process.

I couldn't agree more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree - testing is only one measurement.

I have no problem considering kids who don't make the cutoff's for AAP BUT I really think that a 100% of those making the cut-off should be selected and not just make it the pool.


Not being selected for AAP even with a high CoGAT/NNAT scores, only opens the system to favoritism and compromises the integrity of the whole selection process.

Totally agree with you. If a kid is in the pool, it should be automatic eligibility for AAP, however, because of other factors like GBRS scores which is very subjective, sometimes kids with high NNAT/CogAt scores does not make the cutoff. Of course, truly smart kids sometimes does not test well and parental referral is needed in this case. Too many gray areas for the selection process. Just my humble opinion.

[Anonymous]

but, to get in the pool, only one of the multiple scores have to be above the cutoff. So, you could have a child that gets mostly 100, but in one area gets 131 (last year), and they were in the pool. Add in poor performance in school, and ....

[Anonymous]

Agree - testing is only one measurement.

I have no problem considering kids who don't make the cutoff's for AAP BUT I really think that a 100% of those making the cut-off should be selected and not just make it the pool.


Not being selected for AAP even with a high CoGAT/NNAT scores, only opens the system to favoritism and compromises the integrity of the whole selection process.

The program is called Advanced Academic Placement. A child could score at the cutoff on only one subtest, below the cutoff in everything else, and not be academically advanced warranting placement in the Center. That's why they don't admit children based on test scores alone.

[Anonymous]

PP - your logic doesn't compute. The different subsets are to identify where the DC is excelling and you want to use it as a reason to deny/question AAP?

Why then have such tests where subsets are reported? Why some with high subset scores are admitted and others are declined - at the same GBRS score?

If you have tests, then let the results determine the outcome.

[Anonymous]

Here is why each child in the pool should not be automatically admitted: It is because the pool is designed to identify children that are automatically screened...Granted, all children with IQ's of 130 should be admitted, but the NNAT and CogAT's do not measure IQ.

The thing is some parents "train" or "prep" for the tests. With proper preparation, the test prep services can increase the scores by 20 points.....So 110 becomes 130.

And it only takes one 130 on any aspect of the test to enter the pool. If there was a super-pool where the average was 130, I would think that that could be automatic admission.

BTW, my DD who scored 115-122 on the various aspects of the test is excelling in the AAP program. One of her friends, who was in the pool (scores ranging from 105 - 146) is struggling and not getting the compacted math.

I think for the most part, the committee knows what they are doing, and tries to find reasons to admit children.

BTW, my DD, who scored 118-122 on the tests is excelling in the AAP program....I figured we were too far from 130 to bother, but the AAP teacher said that she thought DC should be in the the AAP program, so we worked

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think for the most part, the committee knows what they are doing, and tries to find reasons to admit children.

Absolutely agree on both of these points. It's not as if the central selection committee is try to block children from AAP. It's the other way around.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's possible to prep a child from 110 to 130. If that is the case, then the tests cannot be worth much. Furthermore, how do we know that a child with a 115 or 122 was not prepped from a 100? I think it's unfair to assume that children who score in the 130's was prepped. I do not know one single person who was prepped for the AAP tests. Do you have any concrete evidence on how much prepping for tests is really going on?

Since you reference the 130 cutoff, I assume your child is in 3rd grade? (As earlier years' cutoffs were higher than 130.) When a child gets into AAP, he or she gets in for 3rd through 8th grade. Is it possible to tout that your child is "excelling" in AAP when she has only been in the program for 7 weeks? In a similar vein, if a child is struggling in one subject area, 7 weeks into the program, does it mean the child does not belong there? Maybe he or she will start excelling in 5th or 6th grade? Maybe he hasn't gotten use to the workload yet? Clearly someone with a 146 score even on one subset belongs in a program that is challenging to him or her, at least in that subject area.

The AAP in Fairfax County has very lax standards. Most programs across the country use a 130 IQ score or similar to screen students. There are no other options - no push from mommy and daddy to get in, no taking of other tests, etc. It actually surprises me that a student with score in the 115-122 range would even be considered for the AAP. Those are pretty average scores - especially for this area.

Anonymous wrote:Here is why each child in the pool should not be automatically admitted: It is because the pool is designed to identify children that are automatically screened...Granted, all children with IQ's of 130 should be admitted, but the NNAT and CogAT's do not measure IQ.

The thing is some parents "train" or "prep" for the tests. With proper preparation, the test prep services can increase the scores by 20 points.....So 110 becomes 130.

And it only takes one 130 on any aspect of the test to enter the pool. If there was a super-pool where the average was 130, I would think that that could be automatic admission.

BTW, my DD who scored 115-122 on the various aspects of the test is excelling in the AAP program. One of her friends, who was in the pool (scores ranging from 105 - 146) is struggling and not getting the compacted math.

I think for the most part, the committee knows what they are doing, and tries to find reasons to admit children.

BTW, my DD, who scored 118-122 on the tests is excelling in the AAP program....I figured we were too far from 130 to bother, but the AAP teacher said that she thought DC should be in the the AAP program, so we worked

[Anonymous]

The AAP in Fairfax County has very lax standards. Most programs across the country use a 130 IQ score or similar to screen students. There are no other options - no push from mommy and daddy to get in, no taking of other tests, etc. It actually surprises me that a student with score in the 115-122 range would even be considered for the AAP. Those are pretty average scores - especially for this area.

We don't have IQ scores for these children. The CogAT and NNAT are not IQ tests, and the County cannot administer individual IQ testing to every student. So admission cannot be based on IQ.

As a proxy for IQ, we use ability tests as well as teacher assessments, work samples, and recommendations. No one said it's a perfect system, but a system based purely on a single numerical score isn't going to be perfect either.

[Anonymous]

PP - your logic doesn't compute. The different subsets are to identify where the DC is excelling and you want to use it as a reason to deny/question AAP?

That's not what I said at all. I said the program is for children who are advanced academically, and I don't think a child who manages to score highly on only one subset of one test should "automatically" be considered academically advanced with no further screening. I didn't say it's a reason to "deny" AAP placement; I said I don't agree with you that there should be automatic admission based on a single subset test score. There are kids who may have a high score in one subtest but average scores on everything else, a poor GBRS assessment from the teacher and AART, and really no other demonstrable evidence that they are academically advanced. Why should they be automatically in based on one subtest score? The child may ultimately be admitted based on the entire screening file, but not on one subtest score alone.