Harvard--What happens now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:China becomes the dominant world power in education.

+1. In education and everything else. The Chinese are happy to fill in any and all gaps that we leave in every aspect of life, globally. Christmas came early for them and is set to last at least 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:International students shouldn't make up more than 10% of the student body. Otherwise, the schools should lose their tax exempt status. There are plenty of full-pay, qualified, American students who can fill the spots.

Agree. That’s a sound normal number.

Should the Save the Children Fund that helps starving children almost exclusively in foreign countries ALSO lose their tax exempt status?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think at the end of the day Harvard will lose 25% of its students, you are not paying attention to how Trump operates.

He wants to destroy Harvard. As soon as Americans let him do so, he will start his program to destroy every other university. He will then open universities for profit that he controls.

Stay silent at your own peril.

+1. This is not opening up the wait list for a few more American kids. This is aimed at much larger destruction of places like Harvard and other top institutions. If your intent is to get a Harvard level education and Harvard is destroyed, you're going to have to go elsewhere and get on that wait list.

There's just not a lot of sympathy for Harvard. The model minorities would normally die on this hill but Jews and asians are not really that interested in protecting harvard from the coinsequnces of its racism, whether it's against asians in admissions or against jews in its response to anti-semitism. The vast majority of americans don't really see harvard as having any real impact on their life and a siugnificant minority think its the source of a lot of harmful woke ideology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The administration can just refuse visas to new students.

Except a federal judge just ordered them not to do that.

No I have been researching. The Judge (I read the TRO) said Harvard can't be banned from the program but it does not stop DHS from not approving the student's visas. That is a power of the Federal Government and there are cases out there where they stopped issuing visas for all kinds of reasons. Any excuse would work.

Those students would have little to no case and Harvard can't sue on their behalf because they don't have standing to do so; the students would need to sue. And they don't have the resources to do so and they would lose anyways.

International students should not come to the US for the near future and I think this will discourage them from doing so.

No this would violate the ruling. Trump can’t ban Harvard. If he tries to simply issue no visas specifically for Harvard students he is in effect banning Harvard.

It’s not likely that he’ll stop with Harvard — he just wants Trump Beat Harvard to get attention. He can just stop issuing Student Visas altogether — or reserve them for white South Africans.

It is so stupid. I know many parents with children pursuing higher education and graduate school that voted for Trump.

Who cares if he does damage to to our institutions and system of higher education as long as he owns some libs!

Totally worth it even if it hurts my own child.

My dd goes to a girls private school w tons of Dem voting families and nearly every girl is ecstatic at the thought of spots opening up at top colleges bc intl kids either can’t or won’t attend. They are HS juniors.

They don't realize that the next step will be to say that H has too many women students and so on. Why should it stop with just the international students?

I guess anything could happen with this guy but that doesn't seem likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this true? Saw on X. Makes sense.


“I think I've figured it out. @Harvard never disciplined certain foreign students who harassed and assaulted Jews on campus. They didn't suspend them, so that they wouldn't lose their F-1 visa status. That's what they're "hiding" from DHS. Harvard keeps saying they provided all records, which is not entirely false -- because there is no disciplinary record for students who were not disciplined. They aren't failing to produce disciplinary records. The disciplinary records don't exist. DHS is looking for disciplinary records that should exist, but don't.

Harvard won't explicitly say that they didn't discipline them, because the moment they say that, the Trump administration can issue a finding, on that basis alone, that Harvard violated Title VI by failing to discipline them. And then Harvard has to either agree to a "voluntary" resolution agreement with the federal government (the Office for Civil Rights in either the Department of Education or the Department of Health and Human Services), or be issued an involuntary resolution agreement on terms that it doesn't decide, or begin losing its federal funding -- in a manner that cannot easily be challenged in a suit alleging violations of the Administrative Procedures Act (because the procedures will have been followed).

Harvard doesn't want to admit that they didn't discipline foreign students. And it's too late to discipline them now, because if they do so now, it will be clear that they only disciplined them after DHS started asking questions.”


If so WTF Harvard. Why not just do a simple disciplinary proceeding - that would not have been hard.

This is a very plausible explanation. Given Harvard's abettment of anti-Semitic behavior, support for terrorists, and discrimination in admissions and hiring, the only course available to Harvard now is to plead the fifth. I refuse to answer on the grounds that my answer may incriminate me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If Trump isn't stopped, we have Hitler, Mussolini, or Orban. Make up your mind America.

Lol I love this level of hysteria.

You are so naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:International students a threat to national security and should not be admitted to any US college or university.

lol

wow. Pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:International students shouldn't make up more than 10% of the student body. Otherwise, the schools should lose their tax exempt status. There are plenty of full-pay, qualified, American students who can fill the spots.

why? what an arbitrary number.

there are fewer than 10% international undergrads at Harvard so no more bothering the college then?

There are more than 10% international students in the STEM PhD programs so, let's dumb down the programs, hold back the research, accept a couple DUI candidates like Hegseth? Most of us prefer that the future of medical research not rely on Hegseth types.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China becomes the dominant world power in education.

China has been stealing our technology at my Division I college. An entire ring of Chinese students were arrested. Some had been in the US for many years stealing from us.

Yeah. Stealing is only ok when it's white collar billionaire crime!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard will not lower its standards to let in unqualified magas. They should raise their standards and get rid of DEI hires the likes of Vance.

Uh, Peter Navarro is a Harvard man and probably the most moronic MAGA person out there. Ron DeSantis went to Harvard. So did Ted Cruz for law school. As did Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. Stefanik also went to Harvard. RFK jr went to Harvard - if you wonder where his brilliancy in science came from, it's Harvard. There's a lot of MAGA that went to Harvard. And look at the members of the Federalist Society. A lot of Trump judges are Harvard.

Harvard is a very comfortable place for conservatives and always has been.

But Harvard has bigger problems. The number of applicants has been declining for years. Penn, Cornell, Columbia and many others get more applicants - not to mention BU across the river, which gets almost 3x the number of applicants as Harvard.

Even before the troubles with the Trump administration, Harvard undergrad lost the plot. It's not nearly as appealing for younger people as older people seem to assume.

No doubt Harvard will play out the clock for the next three and a half years. And they'll get a nice reputational boost for being confrontational and fighting back against clear government overreach - unlike most of Big Law and the pathetic Harvard losers that work there.

Regardless of your side, Harvard has not been distinguishing itself in recent years. It is very much a school in decline - from undergrad to the Kennedy School. Their administration has made some poor choices in recent years. And their graduates reflect that.

Your declining applications argument is lame. Applications went way up because of Test Optional. They have gone done a tiny bit but are still far above pre-pandemic levels. Harvard's admissions rate is lower than any of the colleges you mention!

I agree that Harvard was losing its plot a bit. It was so disappointing to see it pandering to the billionaires donors. I am still livid that Harvard was absolutely negotiating with Trump. Finally, now they are stepping in the right direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The administration can just refuse visas to new students.

Except a federal judge just ordered them not to do that.

No I have been researching. The Judge (I read the TRO) said Harvard can't be banned from the program but it does not stop DHS from not approving the student's visas. That is a power of the Federal Government and there are cases out there where they stopped issuing visas for all kinds of reasons. Any excuse would work.

Those students would have little to no case and Harvard can't sue on their behalf because they don't have standing to do so; the students would need to sue. And they don't have the resources to do so and they would lose anyways.

International students should not come to the US for the near future and I think this will discourage them from doing so.

No this would violate the ruling. Trump can’t ban Harvard. If he tries to simply issue no visas specifically for Harvard students he is in effect banning Harvard.

It is not a matter of "in effect". This is a way to effectuate his decision. I have talked to some of the best and brightest of the MAGA lawyers. This is the strategy the will follow...the ruling is not to remove Harvard from the program but please read my analysis--there is no standing for Harvard to defend those that get denied visas; it's another topic that is different--related but different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The administration can just refuse visas to new students.

Except a federal judge just ordered them not to do that.

No I have been researching. The Judge (I read the TRO) said Harvard can't be banned from the program but it does not stop DHS from not approving the student's visas. That is a power of the Federal Government and there are cases out there where they stopped issuing visas for all kinds of reasons. Any excuse would work.

Those students would have little to no case and Harvard can't sue on their behalf because they don't have standing to do so; the students would need to sue. And they don't have the resources to do so and they would lose anyways.

International students should not come to the US for the near future and I think this will discourage them from doing so.

No this would violate the ruling. Trump can’t ban Harvard. If he tries to simply issue no visas specifically for Harvard students he is in effect banning Harvard.

I know you are not that naive. Women are Americans. Foreigners are not. We have enough diversity e.g. Asians that we don't need the international students taking Americans' slots.

It’s not likely that he’ll stop with Harvard — he just wants Trump Beat Harvard to get attention. He can just stop issuing Student Visas altogether — or reserve them for white South Africans.

It is so stupid. I know many parents with children pursuing higher education and graduate school that voted for Trump.

Who cares if he does damage to to our institutions and system of higher education as long as he owns some libs!

Totally worth it even if it hurts my own child.

My dd goes to a girls private school w tons of Dem voting families and nearly every girl is ecstatic at the thought of spots opening up at top colleges bc intl kids either can’t or won’t attend. They are HS juniors.

They don't realize that the next step will be to say that H has too many women students and so on. Why should it stop with just the international students?

[Anonymous]

Anyways back to the original question--I think we are concluding the waitlist will move because they will not have visas either way--no matter what the one Judge says.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The administration can just refuse visas to new students.

Except a federal judge just ordered them not to do that.

No I have been researching. The Judge (I read the TRO) said Harvard can't be banned from the program but it does not stop DHS from not approving the student's visas. That is a power of the Federal Government and there are cases out there where they stopped issuing visas for all kinds of reasons. Any excuse would work.

Those students would have little to no case and Harvard can't sue on their behalf because they don't have standing to do so; the students would need to sue. And they don't have the resources to do so and they would lose anyways.

International students should not come to the US for the near future and I think this will discourage them from doing so.

No this would violate the ruling. Trump can’t ban Harvard. If he tries to simply issue no visas specifically for Harvard students he is in effect banning Harvard.

It is not a matter of "in effect". This is a way to effectuate his decision. I have talked to some of the best and brightest of the MAGA lawyers. This is the strategy the will follow...the ruling is not to remove Harvard from the program but please read my analysis--there is no standing for Harvard to defend those that get denied visas; it's another topic that is different--related but different.

There are no brilliant MAGA lawyers. At best they are two steps from disbarment. Harvard absolutely has standing now if Trump starts denying student visas specifically from Harvard. I get that MAGA loves to lie boldly with a giggle and will attempt to argue ‘oh gee little ole me! We didn’t deny all those Harvard students unfairly targeting Harvard and violating the prior ruling wink wink “ but this hasn’t been working in the courts.

[Anonymous]

What is also true is that Harvard without research funding, higher endowment tax, and without international undergrad and grad students (who teach and help with research!!), won't really be Harvard anymore, at least for the next few years. Faculty will leave, they won't be able to replace them at the same caliber etc. This may happen to all our top universities (or not). SO Trump is primarily screwing American students..