STEM brain drain from USA, where to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

Name a country that defended science like this and was better off. Name a single one.

U.S.A.

Name a country that prospered by hiring equity officers.

Name a country that required diversity statements as a prerequisite for approval of research grants to science and technology.

Name a country that improved education outcomes by limiting/curtailing access to math in the name of equity.

Name a country that improved education outcomes among lower income groups by spending money on renaming schools.

Name a country that prospered by increasing the number of government workers.

So you can’t name a single country that had positive results after defunding science and attacking academia? USA doesn’t count because it just happened and we have no time to witness the result.

I’ll answer your questions once you answer mine. Name a country or society that was improved when they did this. Because there are plenty that got worse. China, Russia, Germany. Give us one counter example. It should be easy for you.

[Anonymous]

Norway sounding reallllll good right about now:

https://www-khrono-no.translate.goog/forventer-forskerflukt-fra-usa-rektorer-vil-lokke-toppforskere-til-norge-og-europa/942690?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because stem jobs here pay a lot more than anywhere else in the world.

None of that matters if you have to live under a Christo-fascist state that has now defunded and gutted education and STEM research. STEM is going to severely contract in the US. And no one wants to live under an insane authoritarian state. A few extra dollars isn't worth fascism coupled with garbage healthcare and terrible education.

Didn't the fascists and Nazis (and communists) spend a lot on R&D?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

Yes. Hysteria on both sides and so exhausting. God forbid the government try to cut some jobs and agencies.

Hysteria?

Do you even understand the implications of Trump's and Elon's orders? Top American institutions are going to lose hundreds of millions of dollars. It automatically means drastic cuts to research. Closing of labs. Laying off of staff. Lots of work cannot simply be restarted again once it is stopped. It is gone, probably for forever. It is irreparable damage that will significantly contract US innovation, and it will slam our top universities.

And no, you can just raid endowments to makeup the difference. There are all sorts of financial and legal obligations that make that impossible.

A huge brain drain is about to happen. Our brightest minds are going to be forced to move elsewhere and help other economies in the world so they they can simply survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because stem jobs here pay a lot more than anywhere else in the world.

None of that matters if you have to live under a Christo-fascist state that has now defunded and gutted education and STEM research. STEM is going to severely contract in the US. And no one wants to live under an insane authoritarian state. A few extra dollars isn't worth fascism coupled with garbage healthcare and terrible education.

+1 one of the reasons the US is attractive for foreign talent is because of the amount of funding for research. DOGE and anti-intellectual MAGA Trump have ensured that we will no longer be the premier for R&D.

Even red state of KS is asking DOGE to continue funding research at their universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because stem jobs here pay a lot more than anywhere else in the world.

None of that matters if you have to live under a Christo-fascist state that has now defunded and gutted education and STEM research. STEM is going to severely contract in the US. And no one wants to live under an insane authoritarian state. A few extra dollars isn't worth fascism coupled with garbage healthcare and terrible education.

Didn't the fascists and Nazis (and communists) spend a lot on R&D?

The Nazis paid for the research by murdering Jews, stealing their wealth, and experimenting on Jews and other "undesirables".

I suppose MAGA wouldn't mind if that's what the US ended up doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

Vast majority of the educated in STEM fields outside of the DC area are not happy with what is going on.

Even some Rs are worried about what is going on. From AL to KS, these red state congress people are asking DOGE to spare them.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/doge-hammers-us-government-republicans-stir-quiet-objections-118741954

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, my relatives have PhDs in hard sciences and elected to go to Europe and Asia, one of them is very likely a best in the world at what he does and China is trying to convince them to go there. He actually had a tenure at T10 school here, but decided to bail during the first orange term and now is really happy with the decision. Current chaos will only make it worse.

This has got to be a lie. If someone is worried about authoritarianism in the U.S., they're totally stupid to go emigrate to a place like China.

They were mostly concerned with funding not authoritarian tendencies. First orange admin already started the attack on science funding.
For contemporary parallels look at the Putin's Russia. There are a lot of capable russians, but no progress there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because stem jobs here pay a lot more than anywhere else in the world.

None of that matters if you have to live under a Christo-fascist state that has now defunded and gutted education and STEM research. STEM is going to severely contract in the US. And no one wants to live under an insane authoritarian state. A few extra dollars isn't worth fascism coupled with garbage healthcare and terrible education.

Didn't the fascists and Nazis (and communists) spend a lot on R&D?

The Nazis paid for the research by murdering Jews, stealing their wealth, and experimenting on Jews and other "undesirables".

I suppose MAGA wouldn't mind if that's what the US ended up doing.

Germany until Hitler was the world leader in science by a huge margin, the language of science was German and so on. It all was gutted because of Hitler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because stem jobs here pay a lot more than anywhere else in the world.

None of that matters if you have to live under a Christo-fascist state that has now defunded and gutted education and STEM research. STEM is going to severely contract in the US. And no one wants to live under an insane authoritarian state. A few extra dollars isn't worth fascism coupled with garbage healthcare and terrible education.

Didn't the fascists and Nazis (and communists) spend a lot on R&D?

The Nazis paid for the research by murdering Jews, stealing their wealth, and experimenting on Jews and other "undesirables".

I suppose MAGA wouldn't mind if that's what the US ended up doing.

Germany until Hitler was the world leader in science by a huge margin, the language of science was German and so on. It all was gutted because of Hitler.

Was it?

https://prospect.org/politics/2025-02-10-what-trump-could-learn-from-hitler-on-nih-funding/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never been more optimistic on USA than I am now. It is painful now, to my family as we are a Fed family and it is going to be painful for this region. I wish and hope it gets better soon.

- Clinton, Biden & Kamala voter

That's because you have lost the critical thinking ability or never had it to begin with.
Anyone with some sort of historical perspective understands that these are unprecedented times and not in a good way.
Even freaking chatbots get it, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because stem jobs here pay a lot more than anywhere else in the world.

None of that matters if you have to live under a Christo-fascist state that has now defunded and gutted education and STEM research. STEM is going to severely contract in the US. And no one wants to live under an insane authoritarian state. A few extra dollars isn't worth fascism coupled with garbage healthcare and terrible education.

Didn't the fascists and Nazis (and communists) spend a lot on R&D?

The Nazis paid for the research by murdering Jews, stealing their wealth, and experimenting on Jews and other "undesirables".

I suppose MAGA wouldn't mind if that's what the US ended up doing.

Germany until Hitler was the world leader in science by a huge margin, the language of science was German and so on. It all was gutted because of Hitler.

Man, you are dense!
Was it?

https://prospect.org/politics/2025-02-10-what-trump-could-learn-from-hitler-on-nih-funding/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlike our country, you can't just waltz across the border into another nation and set up your new life. However, if you are serious, one thing you may want to consider is whether or not your target nations have compulsory military service.

I applied for two PhD programs starting in the fall out of country. If I’m going to go back for an advanced degree, it will be in a country that appreciates me.

Ok, good for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlike our country, you can't just waltz across the border into another nation and set up your new life. However, if you are serious, one thing you may want to consider is whether or not your target nations have compulsory military service.

That's why you get an education and bring your skills and years of experience in highly lucrative fields elsewhere. Plenty of countries have fast tracks for individuals with highly desired skills.

Everything this administration is doing is going to cause a massive brain drain of STEM talent. Russia did the same and look at them now. US rapidly becoming Russia 2.0.

If you have great skills in highly lucrative fields here, why are you chronically unemployed and not succeeding? If the issue is health or older age, then you may have a challenge getting a visa, and if it's mental health then what is to say that you magically are going to function at full capacity there?

The issue is a debilitating case of TDS that will be magically cured by setting up in another country. Because there's a subset of our population that delights in hating the US and pointing out how terrible we are compared to the rest of the world. However, that feeling comes and goes depending on who is in the White House. It's a fascinating condition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlike our country, you can't just waltz across the border into another nation and set up your new life. However, if you are serious, one thing you may want to consider is whether or not your target nations have compulsory military service.

That's why you get an education and bring your skills and years of experience in highly lucrative fields elsewhere. Plenty of countries have fast tracks for individuals with highly desired skills.

Everything this administration is doing is going to cause a massive brain drain of STEM talent. Russia did the same and look at them now. US rapidly becoming Russia 2.0.

If you have great skills in highly lucrative fields here, why are you chronically unemployed and not succeeding? If the issue is health or older age, then you may have a challenge getting a visa, and if it's mental health then what is to say that you magically are going to function at full capacity there?

The issue is a debilitating case of TDS that will be magically cured by setting up in another country. Because there's a subset of our population that delights in hating the US and pointing out how terrible we are compared to the rest of the world. However, that feeling comes and goes depending on who is in the White House. It's a fascinating condition.

TDS? Who talks like that? You seem way off the deep end.