STEM brain drain from USA, where to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to be at the vanguard, I’d say China. But that’s not what you wanted to hear.

There are many people considering China now. They are dumping huge amounts of money into STEM and provide table funding. Yeah, they don't have the best government either, but many are being attracted more and more by their stable funding environment and world class research that is catching up and even eclipsing the US now.

Ew. I would hate to live there. Even prefer the US to that crap.

“Ew”. ? Why?

[Anonymous]

Why can’t PPs give an example of a country that did this and had positive results for their society?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

Yes. Hysteria on both sides and so exhausting. God forbid the government try to cut some jobs and agencies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t PPs give an example of a country that did this and had positive results for their society?

Did what exactly? Reduced spending?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t PPs give an example of a country that did this and had positive results for their society?

Did what exactly? Reduced spending?

Cut funding to scientific research and villainize the universities and academics that conduct it. Name a country that had a good result after doing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is so funny to read. Sure, go to Switzerland and see how easy it is to get residency. Or anywhere in Europe really. Of course I’m a dual US-European citizen who likes what I see and am considering coming back to the US under Trump. Go figure!

Switzerland is extremely welcoming to highly educated professionals. I can see why you'd be confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never get these posts as someone not from the US. Do you think there is no discontent elsewhere? You can get a very cheap education in the US. If you are fully employed you likely have health insurance benefits. You also seem to be well-paid and mention countries that pay much less. How will YOUR life actually improve? This makes sense for people actually deeply affected by Trump, and there are many, but all the countries you mention have their own issues, and you don't seem to have any need to move.

Lower cost of living and better health care. Not more TVs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

Name a country that defended science like this and was better off. Name a single one.

U.S.A.

Name a country that prospered by hiring equity officers.

Name a country that required diversity statements as a prerequisite for approval of research grants to science and technology.

Name a country that improved education outcomes by limiting/curtailing access to math in the name of equity.

Name a country that improved education outcomes among lower income groups by spending money on renaming schools.

Name a country that prospered by increasing the number of government workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t PPs give an example of a country that did this and had positive results for their society?

Did what exactly? Reduced spending?

Dismantled democracy and installed an oligarchy?

[Anonymous]

I have never been more optimistic on USA than I am now. It is painful now, to my family as we are a Fed family and it is going to be painful for this region. I wish and hope it gets better soon.

- Clinton, Biden & Kamala voter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t PPs give an example of a country that did this and had positive results for their society?

Did what exactly? Reduced spending?

Dismantled democracy and installed an oligarchy?

Calm down. No sane person is going around saying we would not have elections anymore. Stop with the extreme catastrophization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so funny to read. Sure, go to Switzerland and see how easy it is to get residency. Or anywhere in Europe really. Of course I’m a dual US-European citizen who likes what I see and am considering coming back to the US under Trump. Go figure!

Switzerland is extremely welcoming to highly educated professionals. I can see why you'd be confused.

This poster was correct. It's not easy to get a position there. The business has to prove no Swiss or EU citizen can do it, you need canton approval...and the Swiss are generally very insular. I have family there and have been many times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this. I keep asking this question of everyone who raves about how the world is so much better now and how they can have a better life and how their skills are highly desirable.

If you are so smart, amazing and desirable, then USA will provide plenty of opportunity, especially if you are mobile, easy going, hard working and don't have psychological burdens or any major healthcare issues. Even if you are older you have a chance of landing a job if you are very good, lean into the interviewing and don't despair. It's really all about psychological profile. If yours isn't compatible with success here, you are unlikely going to succeed there because it's a different language/culture and these challenges will be a burden for people who do not have psychological stamina and grit.

You are living under a rock. What opportunities is the US going to provide going forward when they're killing all innovation in STEM? Their proposals to freeze and cut grant funding are absolutely disastrous. Top US universities like Stanford are slated to lose $100M per year now under Trump's plans. It is an absolute decimation of US technology and research. There is almost no reason for top STEM talent to stay anymore in the US. If Europe or other countries want to snatch up top STEM talent from the US, now is the time. It's also not only the loss of funding that's the problem, it's the ideological attack on academia that is extraordinarily worrisome. Dictators always try to control academics first.

The US will struggle to keep up with China as a huge STEM brain drain happens due to the insanity running the country now. Hillbillies with guns aren't going to help you keep up with China.

Poor Stanford and their 36 billion dollar endowment. How will they survive?

I suggest all the chicken littles in this thread go over to the College and Universities forum. Do you really think the desire to attend the top universities in the US will dwindle at all in the next four years? Do you really think the most competitive STEM professionals in the world will decide to go to Switzerland to make it big? I don't, and I've actually worked in Basel as an engineer (granted just a summer intern).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so funny to read. Sure, go to Switzerland and see how easy it is to get residency. Or anywhere in Europe really. Of course I’m a dual US-European citizen who likes what I see and am considering coming back to the US under Trump. Go figure!

What do you see that you like?

So many things. But today it’s the Draining of the Swamp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so funny to read. Sure, go to Switzerland and see how easy it is to get residency. Or anywhere in Europe really. Of course I’m a dual US-European citizen who likes what I see and am considering coming back to the US under Trump. Go figure!

Switzerland is extremely welcoming to highly educated professionals. I can see why you'd be confused.

This poster was correct. It's not easy to get a position there. The business has to prove no Swiss or EU citizen can do it, you need canton approval...and the Swiss are generally very insular. I have family there and have been many times.

PP here. Yes thank you!