STEM brain drain from USA, where to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unlike our country, you can't just waltz across the border into another nation and set up your new life. However, if you are serious, one thing you may want to consider is whether or not your target nations have compulsory military service.

That's why you get an education and bring your skills and years of experience in highly lucrative fields elsewhere. Plenty of countries have fast tracks for individuals with highly desired skills.

Everything this administration is doing is going to cause a massive brain drain of STEM talent. Russia did the same and look at them now. US rapidly becoming Russia 2.0.

If you have great skills in highly lucrative fields here, why are you chronically unemployed and not succeeding? If the issue is health or older age, then you may have a challenge getting a visa, and if it's mental health then what is to say that you magically are going to function at full capacity there?

[Anonymous]

I don't get this. I keep asking this question of everyone who raves about how the world is so much better now and how they can have a better life and how their skills are highly desirable.

If you are so smart, amazing and desirable, then USA will provide plenty of opportunity, especially if you are mobile, easy going, hard working and don't have psychological burdens or any major healthcare issues. Even if you are older you have a chance of landing a job if you are very good, lean into the interviewing and don't despair. It's really all about psychological profile. If yours isn't compatible with success here, you are unlikely going to succeed there because it's a different language/culture and these challenges will be a burden for people who do not have psychological stamina and grit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These countries are not easy to move to without a job. I don’t understand why Americans think they can just move to another country.

It's not just schulbs off the street. We are talking about PhDs, in STEM, trained at some of the best universities in the world, who also have years of experience developing highly valuable products in tech.

European countries can pick up this talent for pennies on the dollar right now if they want major boosts to their economy. Americans can bring massive expertise in very valuable fields. What's left in the US? A technocratic take over run by AI and the tech bros who want to drive the country into the ground? Awful healthcare and terrible education for your kids? There will be no more ecosystem left to develop talent in the US because they're cutting research grants and decimating universities. They're destroying it on purpose. Quoting Bible passages and raging about wokism and trans in sports isn't going to make blockbuster drugs in the future.

Basel sounds really good right about now.

Why would such high quality professionals not be able to do well in the USA exactly?

I have a friend who is a cancer researcher in a T5 school. He is considering moving to Europe. The NIH rules designed to destroy biomedical research in US universities appears to have been the straw to him listening to such invitations and laughing them off to seriously considering one.

Europe wants to do this:

https://research-and-innovation.ec.europa.eu/news/all-research-and-innovation-news/eu-countries-agree-steps-attract-and-retain-research-talent-2023-12-08_en

A STEM research career in the US may not be the envy of the world in the years to come. And that will bring about the collapse of our technological edge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These countries are not easy to move to without a job. I don’t understand why Americans think they can just move to another country.

It's not just schulbs off the street. We are talking about PhDs, in STEM, trained at some of the best universities in the world, who also have years of experience developing highly valuable products in tech.

European countries can pick up this talent for pennies on the dollar right now if they want major boosts to their economy. Americans can bring massive expertise in very valuable fields. What's left in the US? A technocratic take over run by AI and the tech bros who want to drive the country into the ground? Awful healthcare and terrible education for your kids? There will be no more ecosystem left to develop talent in the US because they're cutting research grants and decimating universities. They're destroying it on purpose. Quoting Bible passages and raging about wokism and trans in sports isn't going to make blockbuster drugs in the future.

Basel sounds really good right about now.

Why would such high quality professionals not be able to do well in the USA exactly?

Because no one with an education wants to live under a fascist dictator. It's not about jobs or salaries at this point. It's about the country purposefully trying to destroy freedom of thought, innovation, and academic excellence. You know who else did stuff like this? Mao trying to create year zero, Putin's Russia, and Pol Pot. Controlling academia and destroying it is something horrible regimes always do at first. They're already killing everything about basic STEM research in the US. It is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this. I keep asking this question of everyone who raves about how the world is so much better now and how they can have a better life and how their skills are highly desirable.

If you are so smart, amazing and desirable, then USA will provide plenty of opportunity, especially if you are mobile, easy going, hard working and don't have psychological burdens or any major healthcare issues. Even if you are older you have a chance of landing a job if you are very good, lean into the interviewing and don't despair. It's really all about psychological profile. If yours isn't compatible with success here, you are unlikely going to succeed there because it's a different language/culture and these challenges will be a burden for people who do not have psychological stamina and grit.

You are living under a rock. What opportunities is the US going to provide going forward when they're killing all innovation in STEM? Their proposals to freeze and cut grant funding are absolutely disastrous. Top US universities like Stanford are slated to lose $100M per year now under Trump's plans. It is an absolute decimation of US technology and research. There is almost no reason for top STEM talent to stay anymore in the US. If Europe or other countries want to snatch up top STEM talent from the US, now is the time. It's also not only the loss of funding that's the problem, it's the ideological attack on academia that is extraordinarily worrisome. Dictators always try to control academics first.

The US will struggle to keep up with China as a huge STEM brain drain happens due to the insanity running the country now. Hillbillies with guns aren't going to help you keep up with China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These countries are not easy to move to without a job. I don’t understand why Americans think they can just move to another country.

It's not just schulbs off the street. We are talking about PhDs, in STEM, trained at some of the best universities in the world, who also have years of experience developing highly valuable products in tech.

European countries can pick up this talent for pennies on the dollar right now if they want major boosts to their economy. Americans can bring massive expertise in very valuable fields. What's left in the US? A technocratic take over run by AI and the tech bros who want to drive the country into the ground? Awful healthcare and terrible education for your kids? There will be no more ecosystem left to develop talent in the US because they're cutting research grants and decimating universities. They're destroying it on purpose. Quoting Bible passages and raging about wokism and trans in sports isn't going to make blockbuster drugs in the future.

Basel sounds really good right about now.

Why would such high quality professionals not be able to do well in the USA exactly?

Because no one with an education wants to live under a fascist dictator. It's not about jobs or salaries at this point. It's about the country purposefully trying to destroy freedom of thought, innovation, and academic excellence. You know who else did stuff like this? Mao trying to create year zero, Putin's Russia, and Pol Pot. Controlling academia and destroying it is something horrible regimes always do at first. They're already killing everything about basic STEM research in the US. It is over.

Seriously! Can PPs name a single country that pulled crap like this and wasn’t left 100x worse? This only happens in totalitarian states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

Name a country that defended science like this and was better off. Name a single one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Why the hell would they want to come here.

Because you don’t get paid crap in europe. I’m from Germany on a work visa and make double what I would make in Germany and pay half as much in housing and have a much much better quality of life.

Do you understand?

At this point it isn't about salaries. That's the least people should be concerned about. It's more about whether or not you want to live under an authoritarian fascist state. The USA is about to hit have free elections anymore at the rate it is going.

How afraid are you of this that you would go to a foreign country to live in a crappier smaller place, work for less and have to learn a new language?

Read the news. Then read history. It is extremely concerning to the point moving away and earning a smaller salary and learning a new language is worth it. No amount of money is worth hits to freedom. Are you even paying attention to anything project 2025 has proposed? Have you paid attention to JD Vance? Have you paid attention to Vought and everything he's said? You have to have extreme cognitive dissonance to not be highly concerned about where the US is headed. Just look at the disastrous press conference yesterday where Elon Musk made a complete mockery out of the Office of the President and made Trump look weak. We all know who is running the USA now.

This is exactly how MAGA sounds in the other direction. Both MAGA and the left are like twins. Completely unhinged from reality. Extreme catastrophization.

It is Ok. Actually more than, OK. US will do great, really really great! Vast majority of the people, who are outside the DC metro, are optimistic and welcome many of these changes.

USAID, or NIH funding, did not make this country great.

It sucks for us. I sympathize with the fed families, of which I am one. We will be Ok.

Name a country that defended science like this and was better off. Name a single one.

*That deFUNDED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, my relatives have PhDs in hard sciences and elected to go to Europe and Asia, one of them is very likely a best in the world at what he does and China is trying to convince them to go there. He actually had a tenure at T10 school here, but decided to bail during the first orange term and now is really happy with the decision. Current chaos will only make it worse.

This has got to be a lie. If someone is worried about authoritarianism in the U.S., they're totally stupid to go emigrate to a place like China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this. I keep asking this question of everyone who raves about how the world is so much better now and how they can have a better life and how their skills are highly desirable.

If you are so smart, amazing and desirable, then USA will provide plenty of opportunity, especially if you are mobile, easy going, hard working and don't have psychological burdens or any major healthcare issues. Even if you are older you have a chance of landing a job if you are very good, lean into the interviewing and don't despair. It's really all about psychological profile. If yours isn't compatible with success here, you are unlikely going to succeed there because it's a different language/culture and these challenges will be a burden for people who do not have psychological stamina and grit.

You are living under a rock. What opportunities is the US going to provide going forward when they're killing all innovation in STEM? Their proposals to freeze and cut grant funding are absolutely disastrous. Top US universities like Stanford are slated to lose $100M per year now under Trump's plans. It is an absolute decimation of US technology and research. There is almost no reason for top STEM talent to stay anymore in the US. If Europe or other countries want to snatch up top STEM talent from the US, now is the time. It's also not only the loss of funding that's the problem, it's the ideological attack on academia that is extraordinarily worrisome. Dictators always try to control academics first.

The US will struggle to keep up with China as a huge STEM brain drain happens due to the insanity running the country now. Hillbillies with guns aren't going to help you keep up with China.

If you don't think living under the Chinese government feels like insanity, you're not paying attention to life on the ground there. The CCP regularly makes heavy-handed and seemingly short-sighted decisions that have little to do with STEM but are intended to appease hundreds of millions of other Chinese. Ghost cities? Xinjiang? Great Firewall? I'm sorry, but anyone leaving the U.S. for China is not thinking clearly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the meantime STEM folks from Europe can't wait to move here

Cite? I highly, highly doubt this. Quality of life is so much better over there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this. I keep asking this question of everyone who raves about how the world is so much better now and how they can have a better life and how their skills are highly desirable.

If you are so smart, amazing and desirable, then USA will provide plenty of opportunity, especially if you are mobile, easy going, hard working and don't have psychological burdens or any major healthcare issues. Even if you are older you have a chance of landing a job if you are very good, lean into the interviewing and don't despair. It's really all about psychological profile. If yours isn't compatible with success here, you are unlikely going to succeed there because it's a different language/culture and these challenges will be a burden for people who do not have psychological stamina and grit.

You are living under a rock. What opportunities is the US going to provide going forward when they're killing all innovation in STEM? Their proposals to freeze and cut grant funding are absolutely disastrous. Top US universities like Stanford are slated to lose $100M per year now under Trump's plans. It is an absolute decimation of US technology and research. There is almost no reason for top STEM talent to stay anymore in the US. If Europe or other countries want to snatch up top STEM talent from the US, now is the time. It's also not only the loss of funding that's the problem, it's the ideological attack on academia that is extraordinarily worrisome. Dictators always try to control academics first.

The US will struggle to keep up with China as a huge STEM brain drain happens due to the insanity running the country now. Hillbillies with guns aren't going to help you keep up with China.

If you don't think living under the Chinese government feels like insanity, you're not paying attention to life on the ground there. The CCP regularly makes heavy-handed and seemingly short-sighted decisions that have little to do with STEM but are intended to appease hundreds of millions of other Chinese. Ghost cities? Xinjiang? Great Firewall? I'm sorry, but anyone leaving the U.S. for China is not thinking clearly.

The lack of free speech and freedom there is a deal breaker for me. My kids wanted to visit China and I said no way.

But if all you care about is STEM, then I suppose.