STEM brain drain from USA, where to go?
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Anonymous
I'm from Germany too. I often have Zoom calls with my friends there. One of them is a neurosurgeon, and is always fascinated by my tales of physician's salaries/standards of living here. She's just not really willing to redo all of her exams and start over at this point, but basically she makes about 25% of what my neighbor (also a neurosurgeon) makes. And he's younger. Although I will argue that the housing is cheaper. NOt sure where PP is or what she's using as a comparison (not that she's wrong). We just bought a place in Berlin and it was definitely less than comparable place here. |
Anonymous
I like your misguided optimism. 🙈 🙉 Orange regime is frustrating for rational people because it is so illogical and does so many nonsensical things. It is like telling kid it will hurt and then watching the kid touching the stove and not learning from it. Like this science gutting, there is no rational reason for it other than to own the libs. Long term it is guaranteed to hurt. Majority of population has no ability to even multiply two digit numbers in their head like the above poster so there we are. Frustrating. Elon will also not save us. Elon is no genius in a real sense of the word. He is nowhere intellectually close to say Tesla, Edison, or Ford, and so on. His lack of EQ is astonishing and most of his success has come from the willingness to take on huge risks and then literally being bailed out by the taxpayers or some other outside capital. |
Anonymous
for everything you said, there are many arguments against. First the entire Biden's regime was the epitome of illogical. He wasn't even fit to run the country and it's a mystery who was the real executive power behind the scenes, because, sure as hell, this wasn't Kamala either. Even if many were fooled in the beginning by the time it was mid 2024 and with Kamala running only a complete idiot or someone perpetually intoxicated would not question who the hell is running the country. Everything that happened from 2020 onward was a runaway train, it's no surprise it led to this moment. Just because you blindly believed all the Covid "science" doesn't mean that there isn't enough info to showcase how ridiculous most of it was, it just means you are stuck in year 2021 and piously follow your own cult. because you cannot see how working class was gaslit by their own party and pivoted instead towards performative victim worship and fake "culture revolution" and directing anger towards other fellow working class people, doesn't mean that your problems started after Jan 20. They had started long ago, you just refuse to see when cards were falling down because they haven't fallen on your head directly until now. |
Anonymous
You are funny. there is nothing that destroyed freedom of thought and innovative thinking more than the whole "trust the science" narrative of Covid where any alternative valid questions and scientific inquiries were suppressed, censored, defunded. Anyone capable of logical thinking started questioning a lot of the narrative back in May 2020. |
Anonymous
Still waiting for you to give an example of a country that made itself better by defunding scientific research. |
Anonymous
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going back to the topic- Switzerland has a a near 20% foreign population, a lot of them on local contracts. It is very friendly and if you can land a sfh (go out of the downtowns) or townhome then you dont have to deal with the strange rules of no flushing/showering after 10pm and such. The hardest adjustment has been the trash disposal. there is a housing shortage everywhere though- so that problem wont go away.
Austria is not as wealthy but they absolutely will welcome american professionals/professors so that is another good country to look at, cheap, gorgeous high QoL. yes it is true that physicians dont make the mad money outside of the US but coastal physicians dont make as much a their counterparts in the Midwest and plains states. I know quite a few american and british families that have gotten citizenship in Dach and EU countries- it takes a long time, 10 years and you must have employment the entire time and cannot make anyone angry so that they object to your citizenship but its doable. Germany is depressing but all of these countries would absolutely welcome amercian professionals, if you have the grit to immigrate to a different country- i would not stay in the US- this is not a temporary thing. look at all the support this has from the comments, people want university funding, NIH etc to go away b/c they are so angry about COVID. We are ex pats and keeping our house for now in the US but my kids are thinking of staying for uni and dont really have much desire to move back to the US at all. There are also a LOT of brits in europe b/c of brexit so more resources for english speaking families to adjust. It is more traditional from a gender point of view though- a lot of sahm and sah girl friends. switzerland is way more traditional and very sheltered though from crime and problems b/c the immigrant population is very high value- educated professionals or businesspeople or refugees with money/resources/high level education and job opportunities. |
Anonymous
You are the one freaking out that the sky is falling, Mr. Critical Thinking guy! |
Anonymous
The amount spent on R&D is actually increasing in USA. The amount of research that is going on in the private sector is an order of magnitude more than what US govt spends and that is increasing at an extraordinary rate. In addition, all the big research universities are going to continue spending - even if they are cut a bit, it would be the wasteful part. China, Russia, Germany did not get into problems because they cut R&D spending. You might want to brush up on your history! I would bet anyone that USA would be the most dominant power economically, militarily and culturally in the next 5, 10, 50 years. Anyone want to bet otherwise? |
Anonymous
Talk about an autocratic government who has done horrible things to some of its citizens |
Anonymous
If you actually work in high level biotech, shouldn’t you know this list already? I haven’t worked in years in the Biotech field but even I know that Switzerland and Germany would be the places to start looking |
Anonymous
| This thread is funny. I’m one of those Chomsky type critics of US foreign policy and culture and all that. I’ve lived in several other countries, am a dual citizen, speak three languages and have visited over 100 countries. Though I hate the guns, the drug abuse, the lack of mental healthcare for the homeless, the lower academic standards in public schools, etc, the US will remain a top innovator. Move overseas and give it a go if you get the opportunity. Though the US is far from perfect, it isn’t all roses in the EU either. |
Anonymous
You don't sound very smart if you think that frustration with Covid era and calls to look into it have anything to do with cutting funding. In fact, it's a call to do all sort of research to evolve our understanding of virology, epidemiology and diagnosis of infectious disease, all the subjects that had been taboo to question and where funds had been directed into pushing same old same old. Failure of Covid era means more research, evolving our understanding and not just focusing on pushing and enhancing the same idea developed decades ago in order to sell medical intervention to healthy people and force them to participate in trials of emerging tech. |