Amazon RTO 5 days a week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s their way of having people quit

Exactly. It should just say “Amazon is doing layoffs”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read about the Amazon RTO order and think it’s great. It’s high time the federal government got this done too.

The Federal government already has a massive hiring problem. Telework flexibility only helps them hire people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amazon had always been the place for people who can't get jobs somewhere else. Lowest paying, lowest benefit, most abusive management in Big Tech.

They thrive on desperate people (mostly immigrant new grads) who are willing to overwork themselves until they find something better or get laid off.

Wrong. It’s very hard to get a job, pay is generally higher and it’s hit or miss depending on the supervisor. We found a lot of flexibility with the work at home. You make have to work odd hours but can take off for doctor apt or something else and it’s no big deal. They are doing a lot of hires in other countries where they can pay less. Same with new hires. Some stay, some don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw this coming from the moment businesses went remote during Covid. I never imagined it would’ve been a permanent solution frankly, I’m surprised it’s taking them this long to go back to the office. so many people aren’t putting in their hours.

I thought it was foolish for people to move away from their Jobs back in 2020 because they thought remote work would be permanent.

It’s also foolish of Amazon office workers to comment on Facebook, etc. with complaints about childcare because they are precisely why there is a push to return office, how can you effectively work when you’re also taking care of your babies and toddlers?

They were working at home long before Covid. Only a select few have babies and toddlers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amazon had always been the place for people who can't get jobs somewhere else. Lowest paying, lowest benefit, most abusive management in Big Tech.

They thrive on desperate people (mostly immigrant new grads) who are willing to overwork themselves until they find something better or get laid off.

Not necessarily true. Husband made the jump from another FAANG I think during pandemic when hiring was going crazy and got a big bump in salary after getting passed over for the usual politics. Not because he was a bad performer. He was not.

He’s still making quite a lot more than he was making at his previous FAANG company, which is supposed to treat their employees amazingly but actually was a dysfunctional sshow.

Honestly, they are all kind of evil, but those golden handcuffs! It makes it hard to go to other places. He’s worked at a few. I’d say Microsoft was the nicest and chillest but paid the least. Amazon seems to be the roughest in terms of office politics.

I remind him, and he knows, that he makes way more than most people, and that is a combination of talent and ambition and luck. Amazon is evil but he still is getting paid a lot of money and his work life balance is not bad, as some people here are saying.

I assume you don’t work. That’s the key to Amazon. It works you like big law but pays way way less.

I work but don't make NEARLY as much money. The money I make is basically "fun" money comparatively. But I have followed his career, and I do think that probably depends on the team. He really doesn't have bad work/life balance. He used to be in sales, and there was more freedom but more stress with quotas. He is definitely 9-5, and that's with time to go out for a walk or do errands, etc....It's not much different than the other FAANGs he worked at in terms of work/life balance. None have really been bad. Maybe it's the team.

[Anonymous]

How will they ENFORCE this? Lots of barking from these companies about RTO but zero bite. Actually enforcing these stupid rules would create a huge imposition on management to fairly track, open the company up to lawsuits, etc.

Anytime a company mandates RTO but includes “exceptions,” you know it’s BS. The only truly genuine on-site policies are those with zero exceptions (like my grandfather’s factory had). If you’re sick or need to stay home, TAKE LEAVE — that’s what it’s there for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than one of my friends are in software engineering management roles over there. They have been complaining about productivity issues related to people not being in person for a while now. Real product development that is of any quality isn’t done completely siloed. Sole exceptions for things like Linux kernel development, where distributed teams of people who are highly interested get the work done, and they are all afraid of Linus calling them out anyways.

My husband complains that it’s because half the people are idiots. Doesn’t have much to do with RTO.

However, it is going to affect the good people who were hired remote, then told they had to come in 3 days a week and are doing crazy commutes from hours away and now will either have to move or lose their jobs.

We had to get an apartment and spend a lot of money so he can go in 3 days a week or drive 2 days each way 3 days a week. He’s been looking for something else for over a year and a half now but at his level it’s not easy. Now maybe we just sell our house except the COL is crazy higher in Arlington.

L
If your husband is senior level at Amazon, you can afford a house in Arlington

L6. We have a child who just graduated and aging parents who won’t move. House is worth 700,000-750,000. We bought it a long time ago for a lot less but have also made a lot of improvements so it’s not paid off. Comparable houses in the Arlington area at like 1.5-2 million. We considered and looked but were disappointed with the quality of life difference.

it’s normal in Amazon to have a commute. Not sure how an l6 can afford Arlington.

We live hours away. It's not a commute you would do on a daily basis. He makes quite a lot as an L6. Don't know if he will get to L7. The plan before was always jump ship and move up. But that's really hard now. And gets harder as you get older and make more money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Amazon had always been the place for people who can't get jobs somewhere else. Lowest paying, lowest benefit, most abusive management in Big Tech.

They thrive on desperate people (mostly immigrant new grads) who are willing to overwork themselves until they find something better or get laid off.

Not necessarily true. Husband made the jump from another FAANG I think during pandemic when hiring was going crazy and got a big bump in salary after getting passed over for the usual politics. Not because he was a bad performer. He was not.

He’s still making quite a lot more than he was making at his previous FAANG company, which is supposed to treat their employees amazingly but actually was a dysfunctional sshow.

Honestly, they are all kind of evil, but those golden handcuffs! It makes it hard to go to other places. He’s worked at a few. I’d say Microsoft was the nicest and chillest but paid the least. Amazon seems to be the roughest in terms of office politics.

I remind him, and he knows, that he makes way more than most people, and that is a combination of talent and ambition and luck. Amazon is evil but he still is getting paid a lot of money and his work life balance is not bad, as some people here are saying.

op would YOU want to go into the office 5 days a week?
if it were me and this happened to dh i'd encourage him to find a new job. He has one life to live, be supportive.

I DON'T want that. He has been looking for the last year and a half. He's not in his 20s and makes a lot of money. It's never been like this before. He used to get offers all the time. I mean, it's a bit like the world's smallest violin. He makes a lot of money compared to 99% of the population, but the only places he can really keep making that kind of money is at other FAANGs, and they are just not hiring for people at his level. He could get a programming job tomorrow, but with a 50% pay cut. He's also ambitious and wants to level up--no vertical moves because he's done that before and then you're just starting over. It's a game.

At his level, promotions seem to be almost entirely political and done for reasons that make no logical sense. They will bring someone in from a totally different city who knows nothing about the team because they're supposed to be a "rock star" based on....I don't know? Gossip? What some other director says who someone play golf with? This is not just Amazon. It's all of them. And then the person is okay if you're lucky. I'm just a bystander, but I can say my husband is good at what he does. It doesn't seem to be based on actual performance. They are all kind of evil. Amazon is just more evil right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How will they ENFORCE this? Lots of barking from these companies about RTO but zero bite. Actually enforcing these stupid rules would create a huge imposition on management to fairly track, open the company up to lawsuits, etc.

Anytime a company mandates RTO but includes “exceptions,” you know it’s BS. The only truly genuine on-site policies are those with zero exceptions (like my grandfather’s factory had). If you’re sick or need to stay home, TAKE LEAVE — that’s what it’s there for.

Because you have to badge in. In fact, people were coffee badging--badging in and getting a coffee and then leaving--but they tracked that too and said you had to be there for at least 2 hours. If you don't meet the requirements your manager gets notified and then it becomes their problem to have to do something about it or THEY will get in trouble. Even if they could care less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How will they ENFORCE this? Lots of barking from these companies about RTO but zero bite. Actually enforcing these stupid rules would create a huge imposition on management to fairly track, open the company up to lawsuits, etc.

Anytime a company mandates RTO but includes “exceptions,” you know it’s BS. The only truly genuine on-site policies are those with zero exceptions (like my grandfather’s factory had). If you’re sick or need to stay home, TAKE LEAVE — that’s what it’s there for.

Because you have to badge in. In fact, people were coffee badging--badging in and getting a coffee and then leaving--but they tracked that too and said you had to be there for at least 2 hours. If you don't meet the requirements your manager gets notified and then it becomes their problem to have to do something about it or THEY will get in trouble. Even if they could care less.

Do what about it? Make mean faces? What if the employee alleges that others are allowed to work from home more than he is? Favoritism? Discrimination?

What a silly time suck. All so that employees can smell each other (the ONLY benefit to working in the office)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than one of my friends are in software engineering management roles over there. They have been complaining about productivity issues related to people not being in person for a while now. Real product development that is of any quality isn’t done completely siloed. Sole exceptions for things like Linux kernel development, where distributed teams of people who are highly interested get the work done, and they are all afraid of Linus calling them out anyways.

Salary?

My husband complains that it’s because half the people are idiots. Doesn’t have much to do with RTO.

However, it is going to affect the good people who were hired remote, then told they had to come in 3 days a week and are doing crazy commutes from hours away and now will either have to move or lose their jobs.

We had to get an apartment and spend a lot of money so he can go in 3 days a week or drive 2 days each way 3 days a week. He’s been looking for something else for over a year and a half now but at his level it’s not easy. Now maybe we just sell our house except the COL is crazy higher in Arlington.

L
If your husband is senior level at Amazon, you can afford a house in Arlington

L6. We have a child who just graduated and aging parents who won’t move. House is worth 700,000-750,000. We bought it a long time ago for a lot less but have also made a lot of improvements so it’s not paid off. Comparable houses in the Arlington area at like 1.5-2 million. We considered and looked but were disappointed with the quality of life difference.

it’s normal in Amazon to have a commute. Not sure how an l6 can afford Arlington.

We live hours away. It's not a commute you would do on a daily basis. He makes quite a lot as an L6. Don't know if he will get to L7. The plan before was always jump ship and move up. But that's really hard now. And gets harder as you get older and make more money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than one of my friends are in software engineering management roles over there. They have been complaining about productivity issues related to people not being in person for a while now. Real product development that is of any quality isn’t done completely siloed. Sole exceptions for things like Linux kernel development, where distributed teams of people who are highly interested get the work done, and they are all afraid of Linus calling them out anyways.

My husband complains that it’s because half the people are idiots. Doesn’t have much to do with RTO.

However, it is going to affect the good people who were hired remote, then told they had to come in 3 days a week and are doing crazy commutes from hours away and now will either have to move or lose their jobs.

We had to get an apartment and spend a lot of money so he can go in 3 days a week or drive 2 days each way 3 days a week. He’s been looking for something else for over a year and a half now but at his level it’s not easy. Now maybe we just sell our house except the COL is crazy higher in Arlington.

L
If your husband is senior level at Amazon, you can afford a house in Arlington

L6. We have a child who just graduated and aging parents who won’t move. House is worth 700,000-750,000. We bought it a long time ago for a lot less but have also made a lot of improvements so it’s not paid off. Comparable houses in the Arlington area at like 1.5-2 million. We considered and looked but were disappointed with the quality of life difference.

it’s normal in Amazon to have a commute. Not sure how an l6 can afford Arlington.

We live hours away. It's not a commute you would do on a daily basis. He makes quite a lot as an L6. Don't know if he will get to L7. The plan before was always jump ship and move up. But that's really hard now. And gets harder as you get older and make more money.

Salary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On call weeks just got harder...up 5 times last night? No matter, up and out of bed, get dressed and head in.

Exactly. My spouse gets calls all hours. And, a lot of his team works in Seattle or internationally and its expected they flex.

What is the pay for being on call for amazon like that?

Same pay. Only higher pay for clearances. My spouse takes calls all day usually up till 7-8, but on a on call rotation at night. Regular calls can start around 6. They have lost a lot of really good people with all this and will lose more. Supervisors often cannot actually do the work so it makes it hard when no one is there to train the new people. It’s a bad idea as with the rto my spouse works less on those days due to commute.

"Same pay" WHAT is the salary?

[Anonymous]

Amazon corporate is a notoriously bad place fo work. There's a story of an attorney who was in house counsel for them who was told she'd be fired if she wasn't back at work the day after she was hospitalized for a miscarriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How will they ENFORCE this? Lots of barking from these companies about RTO but zero bite. Actually enforcing these stupid rules would create a huge imposition on management to fairly track, open the company up to lawsuits, etc.

Anytime a company mandates RTO but includes “exceptions,” you know it’s BS. The only truly genuine on-site policies are those with zero exceptions (like my grandfather’s factory had). If you’re sick or need to stay home, TAKE LEAVE — that’s what it’s there for.

Because you have to badge in. In fact, people were coffee badging--badging in and getting a coffee and then leaving--but they tracked that too and said you had to be there for at least 2 hours. If you don't meet the requirements your manager gets notified and then it becomes their problem to have to do something about it or THEY will get in trouble. Even if they could care less.

Do what about it? Make mean faces? What if the employee alleges that others are allowed to work from home more than he is? Favoritism? Discrimination?

What a silly time suck. All so that employees can smell each other (the ONLY benefit to working in the office)?

Employees who get fired for not coming to the office as THEIR job requires (not anybody else's job) do have a basis for a lawsuit, unless they are being discriminated against for illegal reasons (race, religion, disability, etc). Just because Sue is allowed to work form home for whatever reason does not mean your job requirements change with Sue's. Companies fire people for not coming to the office as directed all the time. You usually get a warning to get it together (and you can huff and puff and ask why Sue gets to work from home (which is none of your business)), and then if you still don't comply, you're gone.