“Not a sign of good breeding”

[Anonymous]

According to my Habsburg Empire grandmother, if your elbows even graze the table you are a low class wench or common laborer. And you better damn well know when to sit down or remain standing. Little fork. Big spoon. You mess that up and you belong to the streets.

Let us not even get started on how to dress for the meal.

It's all intuitive now, but being ten years old wasn't great whenever the Habsburg Empire arrived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the striving bourgeoisie who desperately seeks to judge others on their breeding, or lack thereof.

The poor and aristocrats don't care. The former because they believe they will never arrive, and the latter because their ancestors already secured their place for them. The middle classes are the ones who face the strongest social pressures and the most incentive to signal their belonging to desired groups.

- European aristocrat. My family would never think to judge you or anyone else on such ridiculous details as personal habits, casual remarks or clothing choices, OP. They will always be courteous no matter what.

You post here all the time. I find you incredibly irritating. Your so-called aristocratic status matters nothing at all. Half the European aristocracy have nothing but an old house and a silly costume these days, particularly in France. The fact that your great great uncle managed to save a small part of the family estate by making a side deal with Robespierre to kill all monarchists in the village, in exchange for some hectares of grape vines to avoid your mansion being sacked isn’t the impressive lineage you think it is. Weasel stock that avoided the guillotine. Hurray!!

Just stop bringing it up. Repeating it over and over again doesn’t make it more impressive or believable.

PP you love to hate.

But I think you enjoy it, otherwise, why would you take the time to excoriate me? And if you don't believe me, why don't you just ignore or call me a troll? I do not write to impress. I post because like all international, or cultural/religious/otherwise different posters, I contribute to expanding the average American's horizon. Would you rather just limit all discussions to a certain type of US experience, or a certain type of economic class, or a certain set of beliefs? Or maybe just YOUR values? Do you think living in a bubble is beneficial?

Whenever people respond the way you just did, it usually means their insecurity has been triggered. Your invective belies your professed disdain and disinterest.

I'm sorry, PP, that this is triggering for you. I'm sure your life is worthwhile, and that you are appreciated by your friends and family.

Now if you can accept that DCUM is an open forum and everyone can respond to the OP, maybe you'll see your way to letting me respond to certain posts without ganging up as if I was the worst monster in the world. And for all you know, maybe we've agreed on many other topics on this site!!!

Relax. It's Friday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to my Habsburg Empire grandmother, if your elbows even graze the table you are a low class wench or common laborer. And you better damn well know when to sit down or remain standing. Little fork. Big spoon. You mess that up and you belong to the streets.

Let us not even get started on how to dress for the meal.

It's all intuitive now, but being ten years old wasn't great whenever the Habsburg Empire arrived.

A 10 year old hosting the personification of a stiff historical period is wonderfully juxtaposed. I'm really savoring that sentence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to Ocean City MD for vacation.

Or Virginia Beach.

Unless you’re an old money Richmond-bred type, in which case the north end of Va Beach or Sandbridge are acceptable. But never, ever OBX.

Otherwise, talking about money or how much something costs is a dead giveaway.

I am the OP and I am actually serious. On this forum I have learned that complimenting someone’s home when you visit is considered tacky. That kind of stuff. I had no idea! I mean I know enough not to buy a truck but am genuinely curious about what more subtle things I am doing that blow my cover when I try to pass as someone raised middle or upper class.

I have never heard this. I thought saying something positive and sincere was the right thing to do! And all this time people thought "wow, what a peasant" when I did it.

Because it's incorrect. I am what OP would probably describe as "well-bred." It is customary and gracious to say something nice about your host or hostess's home.

I think it’s a bit more subtle than that - it’s sort of about knowing your place. To make a dramatic example, it is by no means rude to warmly tell a close friend that you think their house is lovely when you go to visit (I would put the outer bounds of this at older relative of close friend, or older person with whom you socialize often. But if someone is absolute leagues above you in importance [perceived that way by most, or very obviously so], then you would come across as extremely arrogant for implying that your opinion on their personal interior decoration matters. Even if you worded the compliment in the most careful way, you may as well have smacked your gum and yelled, “Great job decorating, you!”

Similarly, it’s not a question of French toast vs eggs Benedict per se, as someone upthread claimed, but rather: (1) you’re talking directly about money; (2) you may be making others at the table uncomfortable bc it sounds like you could be saying you can’t afford this brunch; (3) announcing that you can do something yourself at home better might be seen as crass because it takes away from the point, which is to gather together and enjoy the moment; (4) you could be seen as boasting about your cooking, which is awkward etc etc etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to Ocean City MD for vacation.

Or Virginia Beach.

Unless you’re an old money Richmond-bred type, in which case the north end of Va Beach or Sandbridge are acceptable. But never, ever OBX.

Otherwise, talking about money or how much something costs is a dead giveaway.

I am the OP and I am actually serious. On this forum I have learned that complimenting someone’s home when you visit is considered tacky. That kind of stuff. I had no idea! I mean I know enough not to buy a truck but am genuinely curious about what more subtle things I am doing that blow my cover when I try to pass as someone raised middle or upper class.

I have never heard this. I thought saying something positive and sincere was the right thing to do! And all this time people thought "wow, what a peasant" when I did it.

Because it's incorrect. I am what OP would probably describe as "well-bred." It is customary and gracious to say something nice about your host or hostess's home.

I think it’s a bit more subtle than that - it’s sort of about knowing your place. To make a dramatic example, it is by no means rude to warmly tell a close friend that you think their house is lovely when you go to visit (I would put the outer bounds of this at older relative of close friend, or older person with whom you socialize often. But if someone is absolute leagues above you in importance [perceived that way by most, or very obviously so], then you would come across as extremely arrogant for implying that your opinion on their personal interior decoration matters. Even if you worded the compliment in the most careful way, you may as well have smacked your gum and yelled, “Great job decorating, you!”

Similarly, it’s not a question of French toast vs eggs Benedict per se, as someone upthread claimed, but rather: (1) you’re talking directly about money; (2) you may be making others at the table uncomfortable bc it sounds like you could be saying you can’t afford this brunch; (3) announcing that you can do something yourself at home better might be seen as crass because it takes away from the point, which is to gather together and enjoy the moment; (4) you could be seen as boasting about your cooking, which is awkward etc etc etc

Come again?

[Anonymous]

When it’s too thick and it’s still a bit gooey on the inside, but crispy on the outside… that’s not a sign of good breading

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Saying "I don't like X" or "I hate X," especially regarding food.

The polite phrase is "I don't care for X."

It is not at all polite to say that!
Simply say no thank you and move on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saying "I don't like X" or "I hate X," especially regarding food.

The polite phrase is "I don't care for X."

It is not at all polite to say that!
Simply say no thank you and move on

When we say that we don’t like something or someone, it usually means that we actively dislike the thing or the person. That is, we’re not neutral; the thing or person displeases us and we want to avoid the thing or person.

“I don’t care for X” is more neutral than “I don’t like X.” It could mean that I don’t like X, but maybe I’d just rather have something else. So let’s say that I’m invited to a friend’s house for supper and she serves broccoli. I hate broccoli and it disgusts me, but I’ll tell my hostess, “Oh, I’m afraid I don’t care for broccoli.” That’s more polite than “I don’t like broccoli.” She’ll understand and won’t be offended.

[Anonymous]

Please don’t let some boor dictate your behavior OP.

Your statement was absolutely fine!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going to Ocean City MD for vacation.

Or Virginia Beach.

Unless you’re an old money Richmond-bred type, in which case the north end of Va Beach or Sandbridge are acceptable. But never, ever OBX.

Otherwise, talking about money or how much something costs is a dead giveaway.

I am the OP and I am actually serious. On this forum I have learned that complimenting someone’s home when you visit is considered tacky. That kind of stuff. I had no idea! I mean I know enough not to buy a truck but am genuinely curious about what more subtle things I am doing that blow my cover when I try to pass as someone raised middle or upper class.

I have never heard this. I thought saying something positive and sincere was the right thing to do! And all this time people thought "wow, what a peasant" when I did it.

Because it's incorrect. I am what OP would probably describe as "well-bred." It is customary and gracious to say something nice about your host or hostess's home.

I think it’s a bit more subtle than that - it’s sort of about knowing your place. To make a dramatic example, it is by no means rude to warmly tell a close friend that you think their house is lovely when you go to visit (I would put the outer bounds of this at older relative of close friend, or older person with whom you socialize often. But if someone is absolute leagues above you in importance [perceived that way by most, or very obviously so], then you would come across as extremely arrogant for implying that your opinion on their personal interior decoration matters. Even if you worded the compliment in the most careful way, you may as well have smacked your gum and yelled, “Great job decorating, you!”

Similarly, it’s not a question of French toast vs eggs Benedict per se, as someone upthread claimed, but rather: (1) you’re talking directly about money; (2) you may be making others at the table uncomfortable bc it sounds like you could be saying you can’t afford this brunch; (3) announcing that you can do something yourself at home better might be seen as crass because it takes away from the point, which is to gather together and enjoy the moment; (4) you could be seen as boasting about your cooking, which is awkward etc etc etc

No, she's talking about Hollandaise. And poaching eggs. (memory flash, college years, summer job washing dishes in a little sort-of french restaurant and the sheer loathing and tantrums the chef had during weekend brunch for the people ordering eggs benedict because he so detested poaching eggs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saying "I don't like X" or "I hate X," especially regarding food.

The polite phrase is "I don't care for X."

It is not at all polite to say that!
Simply say no thank you and move on

When we say that we don’t like something or someone, it usually means that we actively dislike the thing or the person. That is, we’re not neutral; the thing or person displeases us and we want to avoid the thing or person.

“I don’t care for X” is more neutral than “I don’t like X.” It could mean that I don’t like X, but maybe I’d just rather have something else. So let’s say that I’m invited to a friend’s house for supper and she serves broccoli. I hate broccoli and it disgusts me, but I’ll tell my hostess, “Oh, I’m afraid I don’t care for broccoli.” That’s more polite than “I don’t like broccoli.” She’ll understand and won’t be offended.

No, you smile and choke down a few bites of broccoli.

You savage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the striving bourgeoisie who desperately seeks to judge others on their breeding, or lack thereof.

The poor and aristocrats don't care. The former because they believe they will never arrive, and the latter because their ancestors already secured their place for them. The middle classes are the ones who face the strongest social pressures and the most incentive to signal their belonging to desired groups.

- European aristocrat. My family would never think to judge you or anyone else on such ridiculous details as personal habits, casual remarks or clothing choices, OP. They will always be courteous no matter what.

You post here all the time. I find you incredibly irritating. Your so-called aristocratic status matters nothing at all. Half the European aristocracy have nothing but an old house and a silly costume these days, particularly in France. The fact that your great great uncle managed to save a small part of the family estate by making a side deal with Robespierre to kill all monarchists in the village, in exchange for some hectares of grape vines to avoid your mansion being sacked isn’t the impressive lineage you think it is. Weasel stock that avoided the guillotine. Hurray!!

Just stop bringing it up. Repeating it over and over again doesn’t make it more impressive or believable.

PP you love to hate.

But I think you enjoy it, otherwise, why would you take the time to excoriate me? And if you don't believe me, why don't you just ignore or call me a troll? I do not write to impress. I post because like all international, or cultural/religious/otherwise different posters, I contribute to expanding the average American's horizon. Would you rather just limit all discussions to a certain type of US experience, or a certain type of economic class, or a certain set of beliefs? Or maybe just YOUR values? Do you think living in a bubble is beneficial?

Whenever people respond the way you just did, it usually means their insecurity has been triggered. Your invective belies your professed disdain and disinterest.

I'm sorry, PP, that this is triggering for you. I'm sure your life is worthwhile, and that you are appreciated by your friends and family.

Now if you can accept that DCUM is an open forum and everyone can respond to the OP, maybe you'll see your way to letting me respond to certain posts without ganging up as if I was the worst monster in the world. And for all you know, maybe we've agreed on many other topics on this site!!!

Relax. It's Friday.

NP.

So, where exactly, is your family from?

[Anonymous]

Why comment on your order at all? Just make your order, who cares why you chose what you chose

[Anonymous]

I’m more curious about who actually said this to you at breakfast, and what their background looks like. I’m guessing someone upwardly mobile in the UMC or new wealth? There’s your answer.

[Anonymous]

If you truly come from wealth, then you do not need to impress people
If you are new money, then you need to impress people that you do not like
If you are middle class then you dream about having money to be able to impress all those people who you do not like
If you do not have any money then you dream about opportunities that money would buy

If you grew up poor then you do not see the value in impressing people