I hate the mentality that college admissions is creating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids asked to be moved out of private to public. They also didn’t want to apply for any magnets or special programs (we are in MCPS). I was not just fine with it, but happy about this decision. My DD just got accepted to two schools she loves (with merit) and is taking time to make her decision.

I have a friend whose son went through magnet programs both in middle and high school, and is now at a top 20 school. He is miserable. He is a math major and said he will not continue with school because he can’t stand the competitive nature of all the kids he’s dealt with over the years. He said he’s done.

It is inevitable that these schools end up this way -- that's who they are accepting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is a great book "Never Enough" by Jennifer Wallace

Loved this book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you're both right" situation.

Getting imperfect grades year after year may very well knock out the T10 or maybe T20 schools. If those are what you mean when you say "competitive colleges". Unless your kid is hooked.

I remember one AO saying, "listen kids, don't fret - one B is fine". He meant 1 B over 4 years. Or three years - 9th grade doesn't really count.

It's like saying a 95% on the SAT is great - it is. But it's also a 1410 and it's not getting you into Yale.

Best you can do is talk up some schools that make sense for all smart kids with Aish averages. When you hear a kid got into Princeton, say, "That's awesome. They're going to have so much fun". When you hear a kid got into Syracuse, say, "That's awesome. They're going to have so much fun."

Because that's true! Set the tone, it will be fine, And picking the easy teacher sometimes is fine too. high school is hard these days

This. Also, there's always grad school. Always wanted to attend an Ivy for undergrad, didn't get in. Then I worked after undergrad did really interesting things and guess what? Got into a top Ivy for graduate school, but it was the right program for me. There are many great universities and programs not in the T10 or T20.

I would also look into moving your child to another HS. Is this kind of mindset good for them? Is this part of the mental health issues that are impacting young people today?

My BIL went to random state schools because that is where he got aid. Went to law school too, again, at schools most people wouldn't know. He is incredibly successful. He worked hard, and knew what his end goal was and got there without some degree from a T50 school even. He is first generation, but now he is pressuring his kids like crazy. He says his oldest must get into MIT and keeps pushing that kid (in elementary). It makes me sad that this pressure is coming from everywhere. My nephew was asking me about my time at graduate school and I told my nephew there are plenty of other schools and programs and he should decide where to go and his dad came over and goes, "no, he is getting into MIT."

[Anonymous]

As someone mentioned, you need to actively counteract this. I mean, a B will mean she doesn't have a perfect GPA and likely will be shut out of the T20. Most kids are now shut out of the T20, that's OK! I actively message to my kids about other schools to think about -- maybe Syracuse, BU, BC, UGA, etc. could be an ED for a top kid and have that be something they are happy with. If the kid was more lower-mid-range at the top private, message that a University of Arizona could be great. Try your very best not to message that only 25-30 certain schools are acceptable.

[Anonymous]

That is just such a sad commentary. One B in high school means you are shut out of T20? No matter what else they do or don't do? No matter what scores they put up? What they've done in their lives? I'm really sorry for the kids going through this. My kids, not that long ago at all, took challenging courses and got more than a few Bs, but they learned, scored well on tests, did lots outside of the classroom and all ended up at high end T20s. No wonder schools can't choose among applicants if so many have A+ averages. And, pity the kids who feel that getting one B is ruinous to their chances. We really have to do better than this as a society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you're both right" situation.

Getting imperfect grades year after year may very well knock out the T10 or maybe T20 schools. If those are what you mean when you say "competitive colleges". Unless your kid is hooked.

I remember one AO saying, "listen kids, don't fret - one B is fine". He meant 1 B over 4 years. Or three years - 9th grade doesn't really count.

It's like saying a 95% on the SAT is great - it is. But it's also a 1410 and it's not getting you into Yale.

Best you can do is talk up some schools that make sense for all smart kids with Aish averages. When you hear a kid got into Princeton, say, "That's awesome. They're going to have so much fun". When you hear a kid got into Syracuse, say, "That's awesome. They're going to have so much fun."

Because that's true! Set the tone, it will be fine, And picking the easy teacher sometimes is fine too. high school is hard these days

This. Also, there's always grad school. Always wanted to attend an Ivy for undergrad, didn't get in. Then I worked after undergrad did really interesting things and guess what? Got into a top Ivy for graduate school, but it was the right program for me. There are many great universities and programs not in the T10 or T20.

I would also look into moving your child to another HS. Is this kind of mindset good for them? Is this part of the mental health issues that are impacting young people today?

My BIL went to random state schools because that is where he got aid. Went to law school too, again, at schools most people wouldn't know. He is incredibly successful. He worked hard, and knew what his end goal was and got there without some degree from a T50 school even. He is first generation, but now he is pressuring his kids like crazy. He says his oldest must get into MIT and keeps pushing that kid (in elementary). It makes me sad that this pressure is coming from everywhere. My nephew was asking me about my time at graduate school and I told my nephew there are plenty of other schools and programs and he should decide where to go and his dad came over and goes, "no, he is getting into MIT."

The great thing about grad school, at least for PhD programs, is that admissions is less about BS factors and crafting an image to sell, and more about demonstrated competence. Did you excel in the area you want to study? Did you make an effort to become involved in research? Do you understand the field and read enough literature to have a meaningful conversation with a potential advisor?

[Anonymous]

No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

It is a subset of parents with certain cultural backgrounds who take the “only As are acceptable” position, in my experience. Those kids are miserable and that cultural group has more mental health issues among their students at TJ (and likely also at other top schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a hs freshman who started at a challenging high school. She got all A’s except for one class and I thought this was fabulous. That class was out of her area of comfort but she was super interested in the topic and worked hard, but the grading was very difficult. Yet she learned a ton from this class, probably more than in the classes she got perfect grades in. The school culture is very college oriented and from listening to other kids talk she believes any imperfect grade may end her chances at competitive college admissions. Now in selecting classes for next year she and her friends are very concerned about difficulty, which classes play to their strengths, and who is a hard teacher etc. My kid has always been naturally curious and wants to learn everything and try new things, but I feel like the looming threat of college admissions is already turning her into someone else who is afraid to take intellectual or academic risks. This makes me sad. Anyone else feel this way? Can anything be done about it? I don’t feel like we pressure her about getting into a top college, but even so the difficulty of getting into colleges is so talked up (maybe the talk is true, I don’t know) that it’s hurting our kids attitudes towards learning. I’m not sure if anyone can offer advice, but it’s just frustrating.

+1 I agree with you. No longer can a kid take a class that is interesting to them. It's all about the GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is just such a sad commentary. One B in high school means you are shut out of T20? No matter what else they do or don't do? No matter what scores they put up? What they've done in their lives? I'm really sorry for the kids going through this. My kids, not that long ago at all, took challenging courses and got more than a few Bs, but they learned, scored well on tests, did lots outside of the classroom and all ended up at high end T20s. No wonder schools can't choose among applicants if so many have A+ averages. And, pity the kids who feel that getting one B is ruinous to their chances. We really have to do better than this as a society.

Unfortunately, when the T20 schools are rejecting 95%+ of their applicants, and 95% of those rejected have an amazing resume (with almost all A's and maybe one or two A- and 10-12+ AP courses), it does mean a B or 2 most likely ruins your chances for admission. There are simply too many kids with an UW 4.0 or only 1 or 2 A- on their transcript.

My 1500/3.95 (at graduation) kid had 9APs (all STEM and AP Psych, no APHistory or English or FL). They were deferred ED1 at a T10.

They had 1 A- first semester of HS for honors history (taught by the AP team leader who essentially taught it as rigorous as APUSH). The only other blemish on their transcript was a B- first semester senior year for Calc BC (great teacher, really pushes the kids, and this ultimately turned into an A- when my kid got a 5---100% of the kids get 4 or 5s, with 95%+ being 5s). This is at a school known for only deferring a small percentage and then often taking a significant percentage of them in RD. My kid was rejected in RD. Don't know for sure, but as an engineering major, that B- in Calc BC certainly did not help them get accepted. Now it could just be the lack of AP ENG/AP history, but given that they don't defer many and then accept a decent amount, it's just as likely the "bad grade" cost my kid admissions.

I'm actually happy it happened, because my kid is at a non-pressure cooker school (T40s) that is actually a better fit for them. I love their ED1 school, I went there and loved it. But nowadays the top schools are largely pressure cookers. And that can't be healthy for many students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

It is a subset of parents with certain cultural backgrounds who take the “only As are acceptable” position, in my experience. Those kids are miserable and that cultural group has more mental health issues among their students at TJ (and likely also at other top schools).

+1000 THIS This "only As are acceptable and you MUST take 12 APs because anything other than ICY is unacceptable" culture has ruined school for everyone. Has created unhealthy stress in the past 30 to 40 years..

[Anonymous]

PP - IVY not ICY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

It is a subset of parents with certain cultural backgrounds who take the “only As are acceptable” position, in my experience. Those kids are miserable and that cultural group has more mental health issues among their students at TJ (and likely also at other top schools).

It's prevalent in a few cultures, I think it has to do with perceived status and assimilation.

I understand why this pressure exists, but I am sometimes grateful for my broken, messed-up family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is just such a sad commentary. One B in high school means you are shut out of T20? No matter what else they do or don't do? No matter what scores they put up? What they've done in their lives? I'm really sorry for the kids going through this. My kids, not that long ago at all, took challenging courses and got more than a few Bs, but they learned, scored well on tests, did lots outside of the classroom and all ended up at high end T20s. No wonder schools can't choose among applicants if so many have A+ averages. And, pity the kids who feel that getting one B is ruinous to their chances. We really have to do better than this as a society.

Unfortunately, when the T20 schools are rejecting 95%+ of their applicants, and 95% of those rejected have an amazing resume (with almost all A's and maybe one or two A- and 10-12+ AP courses), it does mean a B or 2 most likely ruins your chances for admission. There are simply too many kids with an UW 4.0 or only 1 or 2 A- on their transcript.

My 1500/3.95 (at graduation) kid had 9APs (all STEM and AP Psych, no APHistory or English or FL). They were deferred ED1 at a T10.

They had 1 A- first semester of HS for honors history (taught by the AP team leader who essentially taught it as rigorous as APUSH). The only other blemish on their transcript was a B- first semester senior year for Calc BC (great teacher, really pushes the kids, and this ultimately turned into an A- when my kid got a 5---100% of the kids get 4 or 5s, with 95%+ being 5s). This is at a school known for only deferring a small percentage and then often taking a significant percentage of them in RD. My kid was rejected in RD. Don't know for sure, but as an engineering major, that B- in Calc BC certainly did not help them get accepted. Now it could just be the lack of AP ENG/AP history, but given that they don't defer many and then accept a decent amount, it's just as likely the "bad grade" cost my kid admissions.

I'm actually happy it happened, because my kid is at a non-pressure cooker school (T40s) that is actually a better fit for them. I love their ED1 school, I went there and loved it. But nowadays the top schools are largely pressure cookers. And that can't be healthy for many students.

Your kid’s B- in a major-related class in the most recent grading period would be weighted more than a B in sophomore year, for example. Also overall coursework was not the most difficult and 9 APs may not have been that many compared to others at his school who did take AP English and history. The basic guideline for the most competitive schools is 5 core classes for all 4 years, at the highest rigor available.

It was likely not only due to the B-, but overall rigor and other factors.