I hate the mentality that college admissions is creating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a hs freshman who started at a challenging high school. She got all A’s except for one class and I thought this was fabulous. That class was out of her area of comfort but she was super interested in the topic and worked hard, but the grading was very difficult. Yet she learned a ton from this class, probably more than in the classes she got perfect grades in. The school culture is very college oriented and from listening to other kids talk she believes any imperfect grade may end her chances at competitive college admissions. Now in selecting classes for next year she and her friends are very concerned about difficulty, which classes play to their strengths, and who is a hard teacher etc. My kid has always been naturally curious and wants to learn everything and try new things, but I feel like the looming threat of college admissions is already turning her into someone else who is afraid to take intellectual or academic risks. This makes me sad. Anyone else feel this way? Can anything be done about it? I don’t feel like we pressure her about getting into a top college, but even so the difficulty of getting into colleges is so talked up (maybe the talk is true, I don’t know) that it’s hurting our kids attitudes towards learning. I’m not sure if anyone can offer advice, but it’s just frustrating.

Completely agree with your thoughts and feelings on this subject. Unfortunately, these early HS concerns often progress into questioning whether your core strategy of finding a rigorous, achievement-oriented HS for your child was actually counterproductive from the start.

Currently in the midst of the college admissions season with my senior, so can't provide specific guidance just yet. But my tentative view is that it's best overall to provide your kid with the greatest opportunity for intellectual and social exploration and growth, even if the current system of college admissions effectively holds that decisions against your kid.

[Anonymous]

With my older kid we sent him to the most competitive hs school he got into. He was very much into an EC (not for college reasons) but with his rigorous school work could never find enough time to spend on it. He got into a top 15 college and the race for competitive clubs and internships started as soon as he got there. He wanted to take tough STEM classes to explore but now his GPA is low and he is worried he won't get into a good grad school. My husband finally stepped in and told him to do as he pleases and use college to figure out who he is and to let go of the fear of his grades slipping. My son was always very adventurous and I feel this whole college race turned him into a risk averse individual. With our second kid, we sent her to a less rigorous school and she seems so much happier. I think as parents we also only learn from experience but I do feel very guilty for having put my older one through the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this sad transformation you write about happened to our kid. She went from a kid who loved learning to a grade-obsessed anxiety-ridden kid who judges themselves in all the ways that AOs at elite universities judge kids. DH and I fought against the tide for years, but the peer pressure at her top independent school was too great. She will end up with all As and will be admitted to great universities I am sure (she is a senior now), but at what cost? And you know what, she doesn't even want to go to a top university anymore. She wants to take a gap year and work on a farm or something like that....What a mess our system is and how destructive to our children.

I hope your DD gets the break she needs and finds her love for learning again in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With my older kid we sent him to the most competitive hs school he got into. He was very much into an EC (not for college reasons) but with his rigorous school work could never find enough time to spend on it. He got into a top 15 college and the race for competitive clubs and internships started as soon as he got there. He wanted to take tough STEM classes to explore but now his GPA is low and he is worried he won't get into a good grad school. My husband finally stepped in and told him to do as he pleases and use college to figure out who he is and to let go of the fear of his grades slipping. My son was always very adventurous and I feel this whole college race turned him into a risk averse individual. With our second kid, we sent her to a less rigorous school and she seems so much happier. I think as parents we also only learn from experience but I do feel very guilty for having put my older one through the process.

Why is he worried about Grad school or even considering it? Is he studying something like Biology that has bad outcomes with just a BS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With my older kid we sent him to the most competitive hs school he got into. He was very much into an EC (not for college reasons) but with his rigorous school work could never find enough time to spend on it. He got into a top 15 college and the race for competitive clubs and internships started as soon as he got there. He wanted to take tough STEM classes to explore but now his GPA is low and he is worried he won't get into a good grad school. My husband finally stepped in and told him to do as he pleases and use college to figure out who he is and to let go of the fear of his grades slipping. My son was always very adventurous and I feel this whole college race turned him into a risk averse individual. With our second kid, we sent her to a less rigorous school and she seems so much happier. I think as parents we also only learn from experience but I do feel very guilty for having put my older one through the process.

Why is he worried about Grad school or even considering it? Is he studying something like Biology that has bad outcomes with just a BS?

He is studying Math, but I think he thought he would pursue a masters or PhD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the parents stressing about grades, I can assure you that there was a lot LESS stress with my freshman CS major, NMSF, 11 APs, 1560 SAT and 4.5 GPA then my 2.3 GPA 11th grader taking the easiest course load. So what if you get a couple of Bs and Cs. You will have options!

Did you mean a lot MORE stress with your high-achieving kid?

No. So what if child number had some Bs. Great student with options. Everyone carrying on about a 3.5 GPA is devastating. Try working with a 2.3 GPA!!

+1

In reality, if your kid has to be pushed/work extremely hard for a 3.99+UW gpa, then a T25-30 school just might not be the best place for them for 4 years anyhow.

I've got a 3.5UW/1220/1 AP they barely passed and a 3.98UW/1500/9APs with mostly 5s and 2 4s. I will take that any day over the stress that a 2.3 UW in HS would mean. My 3.5 kid attended a T100 school, and once they found their major (let's just say pre health was not the best way to start) in finance, it was fairly smooth sailing, even with their learning issues. My 3.98 is at a T30 and flourishing but would excel anywhere and is likely happier at their 30ish vs a T10.

But I get what a 2.3 (and possible learning issues) would mean. You are just trying to keep afloat and help your kid find their ultimate path after HS, and most likely that does NOT mean college right away (your poor kid is likely so stressed and burned out from academics and needs a break and a mental health boost to realize they are a great person, despite not attending a college/4 year college right away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree with you. My child is only in 8th grade so I don't have any advice, but I agree that the expectation that everyone get all As is damaging.

Respectfully, you are part of the problem. If you have an 8th grader, why are you on this forum?

You can be apart of this forum and not be a tiger parent. It is helpful to understand the process and help your kid "select the best path" for HS. Knowing exactly what we are telling them--to pick the courses your kids like, explore their interests and not worry about being perfect and taking 6+ APs in a year is good to learn before HS.

[Anonymous]

T20 schools have become hothouses full of the extremely wealthy, and the extremely risk-averse. Unless you have the kind of student who needs to get straight A's and work at Goldman to feel like their life has valie, you can skip them.

Having your kid pursue what they actually value is a much better road to success... And I say this as a former bond trader for a hedge fund. Also, btw, I did not need to go to a t20 school, or even take a single class in economics or business to get that job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree, but it’s an unfortunate reality. The truth is that a couple of Bs will not only cost your child admission at T20 schools, but often at state flagships as well.

Only the highly selective state flagships. There are plenty of options out there.

Not as many if you’re middle class. You need T20 stats to make the other schools affordable.

Oh hells no. My DD got significant merit at Michigan State and Iowa. And she is nowhere near top 20 stats. Her aid brought both schools down to the 40k range all in.

Like I said, there are tons of options.

Thank you for this dose of reality!

There are also several private schools in the 80-120 range where a good student (1200+, 3.5UW+/no APs) can also get good merit and bring price down to ~$40K/year all in.

Even the 50-120 range.

Dd with 1140 sat and sun 3.5 uw just got into her 7th. The hard thing is actually going to be having so much choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a "you're both right" situation.

Getting imperfect grades year after year may very well knock out the T10 or maybe T20 schools. If those are what you mean when you say "competitive colleges". Unless your kid is hooked.

I remember one AO saying, "listen kids, don't fret - one B is fine". He meant 1 B over 4 years. Or three years - 9th grade doesn't really count.

It's like saying a 95% on the SAT is great - it is. But it's also a 1410 and it's not getting you into Yale.

Best you can do is talk up some schools that make sense for all smart kids with Aish averages. When you hear a kid got into Princeton, say, "That's awesome. They're going to have so much fun". When you hear a kid got into Syracuse, say, "That's awesome. They're going to have so much fun."

Because that's true! Set the tone, it will be fine, And picking the easy teacher sometimes is fine too. high school is hard these days

I agree. My response to any school my 11th grader shares some senior they know got into is ,” that’s great! Good for them!” I also have pointed out that undergrad is just the start of one’s story. Not the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I totally agree, but it’s an unfortunate reality. The truth is that a couple of Bs will not only cost your child admission at T20 schools, but often at state flagships as well.

Only the highly selective state flagships. There are plenty of options out there.

Not as many if you’re middle class. You need T20 stats to make the other schools affordable.

If you’re middle class then T20 were off the table for you right from the beginning. As were competitive state flagships (many of which don’t give merit, or very little at all). Many many state schools give excellent merit. But you won’t get much below 35k/yr. If you’re truly middle class this discussion probably isn’t for you. You’re looking at much cheaper schools right out of the gate.

No, if you're truly middle class you will qualify for financial aid.

[Anonymous]

100% OP. I’ve stood on a soapbox about it a lot here. Nice to have you here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:T20 schools have become hothouses full of the extremely wealthy, and the extremely risk-averse. Unless you have the kind of student who needs to get straight A's and work at Goldman to feel like their life has valie, you can skip them.

Having your kid pursue what they actually value is a much better road to success... And I say this as a former bond trader for a hedge fund. Also, btw, I did not need to go to a t20 school, or even take a single class in economics or business to get that job.

How did you get the job?

Connections?

[Anonymous]

OP, this is a great book "Never Enough" by Jennifer Wallace

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T20 schools have become hothouses full of the extremely wealthy, and the extremely risk-averse. Unless you have the kind of student who needs to get straight A's and work at Goldman to feel like their life has valie, you can skip them.

Having your kid pursue what they actually value is a much better road to success... And I say this as a former bond trader for a hedge fund. Also, btw, I did not need to go to a t20 school, or even take a single class in economics or business to get that job.

How did you get the job?

Connections?

I temped as an admin. They liked me and trained me. Took a year.