I hate the mentality that college admissions is creating

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

My DD is in at several T75’s with a C (APWorld). With excellent merit. So yes, they will.

Actually 2 C’s. She struggled with precalc that semester too.

+1

Might be harder at a 25-40 ranked school, but I know kids who have still gotten into those with Cs. 50-75+ it is quite easy to get in with a few Cs.

My own 1500/3.95UW/9 AP kid got into 2 ranked 30-45 and 3 more ranked 50-65 and they had a B- (which was really a C+ but the teacher knew my kid and rounded from 79.4999 to give them the B-). Got good merit at 3 of those schools as well (and the other 2 don't typically give much merit and we didn't file FAFSA)

I am loving these stories. They give me honest hope. So thank you. Can you share names of colleges?

This was all for engineering/CS

University of Rochester and CWRU (Top merit award with automatic consideration available).

WPI, Univ of Washington, Northeastern (NUIn), Co School of mines

My kid was ED1 deferred then rejected at a T10 and WL at Tufts (they didn't see the B-, never asked for a sem 1 transcript). Had 3 other safeties/likelies (one was a guarnatee---have a certain GPA and you will be admitted) they got into as well

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

Mine took a full load of rigor, including AP Gov and Econ senior year. I'm not sure it made a difference in his happiness or his college outcomes. He's a hard worker with good grades and decent test scores and has had good luck with target schools and not as great with reach schools. He's likely to end up at our state flagship with good scholarships, but also with kids who have much lower stats.

It’s a flagship, any flagship, 100% there also will be probably hundreds of kids with higher stats. It’s so condescending this notion that state flagship are for the dregs of society.

Even at private schools in the 50-100 range, there will be plenty of kids with great stats. Sure, maybe not as many with 1500/3.95+ UW, but they will be there. There will also be plenty with 1400+/3.85+UW/8AP+. Sure it's not 90% of the freshman class, it might only be 20-25%, but they will be there, in both the honors college and outside of it (many decide not to do it if it doesn't offer advantages---many let the honors kids register before the rest of the kids, so it's a huge perk for getting the actual prof/time you want) But yes, the notion that you will be "surrounded by the dregs of society" is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

Even with an AP/IB course, you simply shouldn't be taking it if you cannot get a B/B+ in the course. These are college courses and your kid is still in HS...they are a Kid. AP/IB should be taken because it's the "next appropriate level or course" for your kid. Not because "everyone takes 5+ AP courses each year if you want a top college.
Just like back in ES, if you pushed (or didn't and kid tested there) to get your kid in a 1-2 grade level advanced math, if they are struggling, you are doing them a huge disservice by not pulling them back to the appropriate level. Life is not a race. Math is such an important skill to Learn and actually LIKE. It can mean the difference between a kid wanting a STEM major and them hating anything STEM related because of ES/MS being too advanced. Fact is a lot of Social sciences and Humanities majors need Math as well--STats and data analysis. So math is a part of life and so you should want your kid to succeed and get As even if it means being "on grade level"

God I love this post.
My DS is a freshman and insisted on taking APUSH this year because “so many people are.” I tried talking him out of it but he insisted. He’s still managing a B but struggling. I said “why on earth are you putting yourself through this your freshman year?!?” They get the idea that if everyone else is doing it, they should too.
I’m hoping he learned his lesson.

my freshman took Honor History, and ended up with the AP coordinator for our HS, who also used to teach APUSH. So her goal was to prep the kids for AP EURO and APUSH and APGovt. So she literally taught Honors freshman history as challenging as APUSH--a bit ridiculous given they are freshman, and we don't have Honors Eng/History in MS, so it's just "regular for everyone". My kid hated it. They learned a lot---was the first time they had to "work" to get an A- in a class (had never had below an A in ES/MS and never had to work for any of them). But my kid spent 15+ hours weekly for a freshman history course (for a really smart kid that's ridiculous, really for any kid it is). So they managed to get an A- first semester and A 2nd semester, and quickly decided they were never taking an honors/AP history course ever. Sure they can do the work, but is it worth 15+ hours of work weekly for a single course? When you are going to be an Engineering/CS major? And have an EC (outside of school) that takes 15-20+ hours of commitment per week? My kid decided nope, and we decided they actually need to sleep more than 2-3 hours/night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can see my kids ending up the same way and it makes me sad too. Since admissions are a lottery these days (especially if you’re not an URM) I’m encouraging them to do the things they want to do though, despite the grades. Not just what gives them the best shot at something that’s out of their control and may well be impossible anyway.

Someone always has to go there. What do you mean “especially if you’re not an URM”? Do you actually think UNDERREPRESENTED students have some privilege that actual privileged students do not have? They are called UNDERREPRESENTED for a reason. Would you trade your kid’s lot with with one of those students? Didn’t think so. If a school opens its doors to a few kids who are URM, but the majority of the school is still the privileged students, how is it a lottery for the privileged kids but not the URM kids? Do you think all the URM students who get in are all the URM students who have applied? How about call out legacy. Come on!

[Anonymous]

My kid (immature student) got into a T25 with six Cs (!) but also a perfect SAT. No hard and fast rules.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

Mine took a full load of rigor, including AP Gov and Econ senior year. I'm not sure it made a difference in his happiness or his college outcomes. He's a hard worker with good grades and decent test scores and has had good luck with target schools and not as great with reach schools. He's likely to end up at our state flagship with good scholarships, but also with kids who have much lower stats.

It’s a flagship, any flagship, 100% there also will be probably hundreds of kids with higher stats. It’s so condescending this notion that state flagship are for the dregs of society.

I don’t get the obsession with “academically appropriate peer group.” My kids are in Blair, and clearly amongst kids who don’t even bother to show up for class. It hasn’t held them back at all. As a matter of fact it probably helps that they look comparatively better than those other kids! Who cares if there are lower stats kids at the flagship? There’s going to be lower stats kids EVERYWHERE.

My kid went to a School ranked in the 80s. My kid was at the 50% for Stats. My kid ended college with a 3.4+ gpa (and that's after a bad freshman year as a premedical major and they tanked their GPA with several courses). There were plenty of "much smarter, more driven kids" at that school. Easily 25-30% of kids were honor/strivers. Plenty of smart kids for others to find their place with. My kid was never a "striver" chose friends who were not as well (A's and B's are good, and a C isn't going to kill your chance at a good job mentality).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Listen to all the snobs on here dumping on less academically selective schools. There are many to choose from on here and they are all fully of nasty comments about certain schools, tiers of schools. The kids hear these comments and it stresses them out and makes them aim for the brand name schools. The only way to aim for those is to take as many APs as possible and do well in them.

Get B's in them? The "rigor" is then all for naught. This is the position my DC is in (floating between B and A- . . . hard to tell as her teachers seem allergic to grading things in all college classes junior year). Likely will not be aiming for the same schools as was on the radar this time last year. Even though taking the hardest APs our school offers (Chem, Precalc, USH). Doesn't seem to matter.

It's particularly irritating when you see the GPAs of college students posted on the websites, which are at or below what many kids' GPAs are now (in all college classes) but they are required to have all As.

As it is my kid will likely take the above average (but not all A) grades and chase merit at schools that everyone trashes here. Certainly no top 20 schools. No top 50 schools. And will have no debt and lots of money left for grad school due to merit. In the end it will be fine but it is a tough pill to see these kids work so so hard and have a B or 2 or 3 be the difference.

Hordes of kids are in the exact same position, mine included.
Those kids who worked their tails off, have a few B’s on their transcript and they will end up at colleges that they didn’t need to work so insanely for. It is what it is. Hopefully their smarts & work ethic takes them far.

Oh no, hope they didn’t inadvertently learn anything since the purpose of these classes is to grind for Ivies.

Work ethic will trump ANY other qualification a person may have. It is the one ingredient in the most secret of secret sauces. And it is the one thing we can not fully teach our kids. It really is up to them.

And in the "real world" add in personality and ability to work well with others. My 3.4+ GPA in college (3.5UW HS/1200) kid had a job immediately after graduation, is doing extremely well at their job. We always knew they are so much more than their "grade show"---they give 120% at jobs and are a joy to work with---eveyrone loves them. So once they start a job, they will be a top employee, always said they just need to get the job

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can see my kids ending up the same way and it makes me sad too. Since admissions are a lottery these days (especially if you’re not an URM) I’m encouraging them to do the things they want to do though, despite the grades. Not just what gives them the best shot at something that’s out of their control and may well be impossible anyway.

Someone always has to go there. What do you mean “especially if you’re not an URM”? Do you actually think UNDERREPRESENTED students have some privilege that actual privileged students do not have? They are called UNDERREPRESENTED for a reason. Would you trade your kid’s lot with with one of those students? Didn’t think so. If a school opens its doors to a few kids who are URM, but the majority of the school is still the privileged students, how is it a lottery for the privileged kids but not the URM kids? Do you think all the URM students who get in are all the URM students who have applied? How about call out legacy. Come on!

Yup---those complaining would never actually switch their lives for the last 12-18 years with the URM/underprivileged kid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Listen to all the snobs on here dumping on less academically selective schools. There are many to choose from on here and they are all fully of nasty comments about certain schools, tiers of schools. The kids hear these comments and it stresses them out and makes them aim for the brand name schools. The only way to aim for those is to take as many APs as possible and do well in them.

Get B's in them? The "rigor" is then all for naught. This is the position my DC is in (floating between B and A- . . . hard to tell as her teachers seem allergic to grading things in all college classes junior year). Likely will not be aiming for the same schools as was on the radar this time last year. Even though taking the hardest APs our school offers (Chem, Precalc, USH). Doesn't seem to matter.

It's particularly irritating when you see the GPAs of college students posted on the websites, which are at or below what many kids' GPAs are now (in all college classes) but they are required to have all As.

As it is my kid will likely take the above average (but not all A) grades and chase merit at schools that everyone trashes here. Certainly no top 20 schools. No top 50 schools. And will have no debt and lots of money left for grad school due to merit. In the end it will be fine but it is a tough pill to see these kids work so so hard and have a B or 2 or 3 be the difference.

Hordes of kids are in the exact same position, mine included.
Those kids who worked their tails off, have a few B’s on their transcript and they will end up at colleges that they didn’t need to work so insanely for. It is what it is. Hopefully their smarts & work ethic takes them far.

Oh no, hope they didn’t inadvertently learn anything since the purpose of these classes is to grind for Ivies.

Work ethic will trump ANY other qualification a person may have. It is the one ingredient in the most secret of secret sauces. And it is the one thing we can not fully teach our kids. It really is up to them.

And in the "real world" add in personality and ability to work well with others. My 3.4+ GPA in college (3.5UW HS/1200) kid had a job immediately after graduation, is doing extremely well at their job. We always knew they are so much more than their "grade show"---they give 120% at jobs and are a joy to work with---eveyrone loves them. So once they start a job, they will be a top employee, always said they just need to get the job

+100

This is why I don’t worry about my kids. My DD has a really good head on her shoulders, and has learned to make friends with her teachers right off the bat so once you establish a relationship it’s much easier to ask for help or to get what you need out of a class. My 15yo son could seriously charm the pants off anyone, and he’s got a lot “street smarts.” IMO, both of these traits are going to serve my kids far better than high academic achievement ever will.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see my kids ending up the same way and it makes me sad too. Since admissions are a lottery these days (especially if you’re not an URM) I’m encouraging them to do the things they want to do though, despite the grades. Not just what gives them the best shot at something that’s out of their control and may well be impossible anyway.

Someone always has to go there. What do you mean “especially if you’re not an URM”? Do you actually think UNDERREPRESENTED students have some privilege that actual privileged students do not have? They are called UNDERREPRESENTED for a reason. Would you trade your kid’s lot with with one of those students? Didn’t think so. If a school opens its doors to a few kids who are URM, but the majority of the school is still the privileged students, how is it a lottery for the privileged kids but not the URM kids? Do you think all the URM students who get in are all the URM students who have applied? How about call out legacy. Come on!

Yup---those complaining would never actually switch their lives for the last 12-18 years with the URM/underprivileged kid.

NP
Just take out the URM part. PP is right - it’s a lottery for ANYONE. Why work so hard just to buy a dang ticket, and your chances are still slim?

[Anonymous]

Over the long run, this is by far a more important attribute than getting into a “highly selective” college. There are hundreds of fantastic universities in this country, many of which accept more than 50% of applicants. Too many use low acceptance rate as a proxy for quality. It isn’t. Scarcity mindset for education is unnecessary and unhelpful.

Love this! So true.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I totally agree, but it’s an unfortunate reality. The truth is that a couple of Bs will not only cost your child admission at T20 schools, but often at state flagships as well.

Eh. My DS earned a ton of Bs in 11th and 12th. He got into every state university he applied to, most with merit.

Obviously you left out one or more factors that got him in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid (immature student) got into a T25 with six Cs (!) but also a perfect SAT. No hard and fast rules.

And they were hooked

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see my kids ending up the same way and it makes me sad too. Since admissions are a lottery these days (especially if you’re not an URM) I’m encouraging them to do the things they want to do though, despite the grades. Not just what gives them the best shot at something that’s out of their control and may well be impossible anyway.

Someone always has to go there. What do you mean “especially if you’re not an URM”? Do you actually think UNDERREPRESENTED students have some privilege that actual privileged students do not have? They are called UNDERREPRESENTED for a reason. Would you trade your kid’s lot with with one of those students? Didn’t think so. If a school opens its doors to a few kids who are URM, but the majority of the school is still the privileged students, how is it a lottery for the privileged kids but not the URM kids? Do you think all the URM students who get in are all the URM students who have applied? How about call out legacy. Come on!

DP but acknowledging that it’s more of a lottery if you’re not URM (or first gen) isn’t criticism; it’s simply fact. Acknowledging it also doesn’t diminish anyone’s achievements. Relax.