I hate the mentality that college admissions is creating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

Mine took a full load of rigor, including AP Gov and Econ senior year. I'm not sure it made a difference in his happiness or his college outcomes. He's a hard worker with good grades and decent test scores and has had good luck with target schools and not as great with reach schools. He's likely to end up at our state flagship with good scholarships, but also with kids who have much lower stats.

It’s a flagship, any flagship, 100% there also will be probably hundreds of kids with higher stats. It’s so condescending this notion that state flagship are for the dregs of society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

Even with an AP/IB course, you simply shouldn't be taking it if you cannot get a B/B+ in the course. These are college courses and your kid is still in HS...they are a Kid. AP/IB should be taken because it's the "next appropriate level or course" for your kid. Not because "everyone takes 5+ AP courses each year if you want a top college.
Just like back in ES, if you pushed (or didn't and kid tested there) to get your kid in a 1-2 grade level advanced math, if they are struggling, you are doing them a huge disservice by not pulling them back to the appropriate level. Life is not a race. Math is such an important skill to Learn and actually LIKE. It can mean the difference between a kid wanting a STEM major and them hating anything STEM related because of ES/MS being too advanced. Fact is a lot of Social sciences and Humanities majors need Math as well--STats and data analysis. So math is a part of life and so you should want your kid to succeed and get As even if it means being "on grade level"

God I love this post.
My DS is a freshman and insisted on taking APUSH this year because “so many people are.” I tried talking him out of it but he insisted. He’s still managing a B but struggling. I said “why on earth are you putting yourself through this your freshman year?!?” They get the idea that if everyone else is doing it, they should too.
I’m hoping he learned his lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

Mine took a full load of rigor, including AP Gov and Econ senior year. I'm not sure it made a difference in his happiness or his college outcomes. He's a hard worker with good grades and decent test scores and has had good luck with target schools and not as great with reach schools. He's likely to end up at our state flagship with good scholarships, but also with kids who have much lower stats.

It’s a flagship, any flagship, 100% there also will be probably hundreds of kids with higher stats. It’s so condescending this notion that state flagship are for the dregs of society.

I don’t get the obsession with “academically appropriate peer group.” My kids are in Blair, and clearly amongst kids who don’t even bother to show up for class. It hasn’t held them back at all. As a matter of fact it probably helps that they look comparatively better than those other kids! Who cares if there are lower stats kids at the flagship? There’s going to be lower stats kids EVERYWHERE.

[Anonymous]

Assuming parents of kids with lots of Bs don’t have some other “hook” that Asian/White non-athletes can’t replicate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assuming parents of kids with lots of Bs don’t have some other “hook” that Asian/White non-athletes can’t replicate.

I am the PP with the kid with 2 C’s. She also had some B’s. No hooks. Not a star athlete, or crazy EC’s, or URM, or rich donor parents. Nada. Just your average kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assuming parents of kids with lots of Bs don’t have some other “hook” that Asian/White non-athletes can’t replicate.

I’m the PP with the DC with 3 Cs and lots of Bs. White, ADHD, not a recruited athlete but played a sport in high school, very average ECs, full pay. Nothing outstanding but is a very smart, really funny and well liked kid. Teachers loved my kid. I am sure the recommendations were stellar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming parents of kids with lots of Bs don’t have some other “hook” that Asian/White non-athletes can’t replicate.

I’m the PP with the DC with 3 Cs and lots of Bs. White, ADHD, not a recruited athlete but played a sport in high school, very average ECs, full pay. Nothing outstanding but is a very smart, really funny and well liked kid. Teachers loved my kid. I am sure the recommendations were stellar.

Where is your kid going?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen to all the snobs on here dumping on less academically selective schools. There are many to choose from on here and they are all fully of nasty comments about certain schools, tiers of schools. The kids hear these comments and it stresses them out and makes them aim for the brand name schools. The only way to aim for those is to take as many APs as possible and do well in them.

Get B's in them? The "rigor" is then all for naught. This is the position my DC is in (floating between B and A- . . . hard to tell as her teachers seem allergic to grading things in all college classes junior year). Likely will not be aiming for the same schools as was on the radar this time last year. Even though taking the hardest APs our school offers (Chem, Precalc, USH). Doesn't seem to matter.

It's particularly irritating when you see the GPAs of college students posted on the websites, which are at or below what many kids' GPAs are now (in all college classes) but they are required to have all As.

As it is my kid will likely take the above average (but not all A) grades and chase merit at schools that everyone trashes here. Certainly no top 20 schools. No top 50 schools. And will have no debt and lots of money left for grad school due to merit. In the end it will be fine but it is a tough pill to see these kids work so so hard and have a B or 2 or 3 be the difference.

Hordes of kids are in the exact same position, mine included.
Those kids who worked their tails off, have a few B’s on their transcript and they will end up at colleges that they didn’t need to work so insanely for. It is what it is. Hopefully their smarts & work ethic takes them far.

Oh no, hope they didn’t inadvertently learn anything since the purpose of these classes is to grind for Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen to all the snobs on here dumping on less academically selective schools. There are many to choose from on here and they are all fully of nasty comments about certain schools, tiers of schools. The kids hear these comments and it stresses them out and makes them aim for the brand name schools. The only way to aim for those is to take as many APs as possible and do well in them.

Get B's in them? The "rigor" is then all for naught. This is the position my DC is in (floating between B and A- . . . hard to tell as her teachers seem allergic to grading things in all college classes junior year). Likely will not be aiming for the same schools as was on the radar this time last year. Even though taking the hardest APs our school offers (Chem, Precalc, USH). Doesn't seem to matter.

It's particularly irritating when you see the GPAs of college students posted on the websites, which are at or below what many kids' GPAs are now (in all college classes) but they are required to have all As.

As it is my kid will likely take the above average (but not all A) grades and chase merit at schools that everyone trashes here. Certainly no top 20 schools. No top 50 schools. And will have no debt and lots of money left for grad school due to merit. In the end it will be fine but it is a tough pill to see these kids work so so hard and have a B or 2 or 3 be the difference.

Hordes of kids are in the exact same position, mine included.
Those kids who worked their tails off, have a few B’s on their transcript and they will end up at colleges that they didn’t need to work so insanely for. It is what it is. Hopefully their smarts & work ethic takes them far.

Oh no, hope they didn’t inadvertently learn anything since the purpose of these classes is to grind for Ivies.

It's natural to second guess those choices when you realize your kid could have had fewer nights working until midnight and maybe more time to do things like go to school games if they took easier classes b/c it didn't change the results in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

My DD is in at several T75’s with a C (APWorld). With excellent merit. So yes, they will.

Thank you. I think there are many people spreading myths, which only fuels the crazy hype.

Top 75s are not going to have a C or 2 harm you. But it very likely will for a T25. You are comparing Gonzaga to Duke---huge difference. Really once you exit Top 25-30, it's not likely to harm you if rest is strong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

My DD is in at several T75’s with a C (APWorld). With excellent merit. So yes, they will.

Thank you. I think there are many people spreading myths, which only fuels the crazy hype.

Top 75s are not going to have a C or 2 harm you. But it very likely will for a T25. You are comparing Gonzaga to Duke---huge difference. Really once you exit Top 25-30, it's not likely to harm you if rest is strong

That’s the point. We are battling against the T25 is the only way mentality. It’s not. And it’s damaging to the kids to boot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen to all the snobs on here dumping on less academically selective schools. There are many to choose from on here and they are all fully of nasty comments about certain schools, tiers of schools. The kids hear these comments and it stresses them out and makes them aim for the brand name schools. The only way to aim for those is to take as many APs as possible and do well in them.

Get B's in them? The "rigor" is then all for naught. This is the position my DC is in (floating between B and A- . . . hard to tell as her teachers seem allergic to grading things in all college classes junior year). Likely will not be aiming for the same schools as was on the radar this time last year. Even though taking the hardest APs our school offers (Chem, Precalc, USH). Doesn't seem to matter.

It's particularly irritating when you see the GPAs of college students posted on the websites, which are at or below what many kids' GPAs are now (in all college classes) but they are required to have all As.

As it is my kid will likely take the above average (but not all A) grades and chase merit at schools that everyone trashes here. Certainly no top 20 schools. No top 50 schools. And will have no debt and lots of money left for grad school due to merit. In the end it will be fine but it is a tough pill to see these kids work so so hard and have a B or 2 or 3 be the difference.

Hordes of kids are in the exact same position, mine included.
Those kids who worked their tails off, have a few B’s on their transcript and they will end up at colleges that they didn’t need to work so insanely for. It is what it is. Hopefully their smarts & work ethic takes them far.

Well hopefully your kid learned something in HS with all that rigor.

But yes, it's often smarter to take the approach of "not working quite as hard" and not driving yourself crazy in HS for something you are still likely not to get (T20 admission). You should still be happy after HS with your choices if you end up at a school in the 50+ range, because that is most likely where you will end up
If not, change your approach and scale it back just a bit and be happier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen to all the snobs on here dumping on less academically selective schools. There are many to choose from on here and they are all fully of nasty comments about certain schools, tiers of schools. The kids hear these comments and it stresses them out and makes them aim for the brand name schools. The only way to aim for those is to take as many APs as possible and do well in them.

Get B's in them? The "rigor" is then all for naught. This is the position my DC is in (floating between B and A- . . . hard to tell as her teachers seem allergic to grading things in all college classes junior year). Likely will not be aiming for the same schools as was on the radar this time last year. Even though taking the hardest APs our school offers (Chem, Precalc, USH). Doesn't seem to matter.

It's particularly irritating when you see the GPAs of college students posted on the websites, which are at or below what many kids' GPAs are now (in all college classes) but they are required to have all As.

As it is my kid will likely take the above average (but not all A) grades and chase merit at schools that everyone trashes here. Certainly no top 20 schools. No top 50 schools. And will have no debt and lots of money left for grad school due to merit. In the end it will be fine but it is a tough pill to see these kids work so so hard and have a B or 2 or 3 be the difference.

Hordes of kids are in the exact same position, mine included.
Those kids who worked their tails off, have a few B’s on their transcript and they will end up at colleges that they didn’t need to work so insanely for. It is what it is. Hopefully their smarts & work ethic takes them far.

Oh no, hope they didn’t inadvertently learn anything since the purpose of these classes is to grind for Ivies.

It's natural to second guess those choices when you realize your kid could have had fewer nights working until midnight and maybe more time to do things like go to school games if they took easier classes b/c it didn't change the results in the end.

THIS
You only get one childhood and high school experience.

[Anonymous]

Am I understanding that she is a freshman in high school?

The only thing I can say is teach her to have a backup plan that she will be happy with, she should do her best, and finally, life’s not fair.

Then she should be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen to all the snobs on here dumping on less academically selective schools. There are many to choose from on here and they are all fully of nasty comments about certain schools, tiers of schools. The kids hear these comments and it stresses them out and makes them aim for the brand name schools. The only way to aim for those is to take as many APs as possible and do well in them.

Get B's in them? The "rigor" is then all for naught. This is the position my DC is in (floating between B and A- . . . hard to tell as her teachers seem allergic to grading things in all college classes junior year). Likely will not be aiming for the same schools as was on the radar this time last year. Even though taking the hardest APs our school offers (Chem, Precalc, USH). Doesn't seem to matter.

It's particularly irritating when you see the GPAs of college students posted on the websites, which are at or below what many kids' GPAs are now (in all college classes) but they are required to have all As.

As it is my kid will likely take the above average (but not all A) grades and chase merit at schools that everyone trashes here. Certainly no top 20 schools. No top 50 schools. And will have no debt and lots of money left for grad school due to merit. In the end it will be fine but it is a tough pill to see these kids work so so hard and have a B or 2 or 3 be the difference.

Hordes of kids are in the exact same position, mine included.
Those kids who worked their tails off, have a few B’s on their transcript and they will end up at colleges that they didn’t need to work so insanely for. It is what it is. Hopefully their smarts & work ethic takes them far.

Oh no, hope they didn’t inadvertently learn anything since the purpose of these classes is to grind for Ivies.

Work ethic will trump ANY other qualification a person may have. It is the one ingredient in the most secret of secret sauces. And it is the one thing we can not fully teach our kids. It really is up to them.