Women: do you feel like you became invisible, or treated worth, starting in your 40s?

[Anonymous]

Sometimes I wonder how height also plays into it.

At 54, I am free of the unwanted male attention and that is a relief to me. The only attention I need I get from my DH. But I have not experienced the drop in customer service. I am on the tall end for a woman. There is research out there to show that people who are taller are treated as having more authority, etc., so I sometimes wonder if that is why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

White men especially just need to show up. And white women are more likely to be partnered with white men, so white women probably see this discrepancy in treatment customer service wise than women of other ethnicities do.

This!

In our 40s and I am watching my DH become more respected with every new gray hair and wrinkle, at the same time that I see the reverse effect for myself. I also have noticed that becoming a father has made people view my DH, automatically, as more responsible and mature, but I've noticed this weird condescension towards me since I had a kid, where people are more likely to give me unsolicited life advice or second-guess things I say. And of course our behavior as parents is treated totally different -- what is considered "overprotective" or "anxious" in me is considered admirable, strong parenting in my DH, but what is considered "lax" or "lazy" in me is considered reasonable and restrained in my DH.

I feel like these double standards are less obvious when you are younger and don't have kids -- there's more of an illusion that men and women are equal professionally and socially. I have a higher level of education and have always made a higher salary than my DH, so I never before would have said that I was taken LESS seriously than he was. But now I absolutely am.

I absolutely hate this double standard nonsense when it comes to parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year I was standing in Trader Joe’s ready to check out. I had a basket, not a cart. It was one that didn’t have a single line to check out. Two different cashiers signaled to other customers to step forward to check out, while I stood there in the middle of the store with my basket, waiting. I never felt so invisible. It is an awful feeling.

yes this feeling is terrible...on the positive side I've learned as I get older to speak up so I'm definitely saying I was next.

Sigh...and then people call you a Karen behind your back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

You get back what you put out. Wanted to be treated kindly? Don't be a dick.

This is just not universally true. I am a PP who gained weight (back to back pregnancies) and still have a good amount of weight to lose. I have ALWAYS been very polite and nice to service workers and people in general - it is just who I am. I am treated SO POORLY compared to when I was at my normal weight and size of 4/6. I always thought people were nice because I was nice. Now I realize it's because I was attractive. It's depressing AF.

It's the fat toll. If you are non white the toll is more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. I've always been treated like shit my whole life. People are really disgusted by, and prefer to ignore, people with scarring on their faces.

I'm sorry for you. And I truly believe this. Same with any visible disfigurement or disability. It's like people don't know how to act so they ignore you. I have no scars or disability and I notice this towards those that do. I hope there are more people like me that make a conscious effort to see you.

[Anonymous]

I remember my first invisible moment clearly. I was 40 and made eye contact with a man in my age range on the street I smiled, but he looked right through me as if I wasn't even there. Then it happened again. And again. But I'll always remember the first time.

Now I'm almost 56, and I'm comfortable in my invisibility. It's shocking to me when a man (usually older, lol) seems to be checking me out. I literally don't know what to do in those moments anymore. All I am thinking is please stop. I feel too exposed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

You get back what you put out. Wanted to be treated kindly? Don't be a dick.

This is just not universally true. I am a PP who gained weight (back to back pregnancies) and still have a good amount of weight to lose. I have ALWAYS been very polite and nice to service workers and people in general - it is just who I am. I am treated SO POORLY compared to when I was at my normal weight and size of 4/6. I always thought people were nice because I was nice. Now I realize it's because I was attractive. It's depressing AF.

It's the fat toll. If you are non white the toll is more.

But again...pretty sure men don't pay a "fat toll" (or a slovenly toll, or an old toll, or a grumpy toll). They don't have to DO or NOT DO anything to be treated respectfully and/or to receive good service.

[Anonymous]

ITT people realize they were privileged all along.

Better late than never, I suppose.

[Anonymous]

[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

You get back what you put out. Wanted to be treated kindly? Don't be a dick.

This is just not universally true. I am a PP who gained weight (back to back pregnancies) and still have a good amount of weight to lose. I have ALWAYS been very polite and nice to service workers and people in general - it is just who I am. I am treated SO POORLY compared to when I was at my normal weight and size of 4/6. I always thought people were nice because I was nice. Now I realize it's because I was attractive. It's depressing AF.

It's the fat toll. If you are non white the toll is more.

But again...pretty sure men don't pay a "fat toll" (or a slovenly toll, or an old toll, or a grumpy toll). They don't have to DO or NOT DO anything to be treated respectfully and/or to receive good service.

Yes, the world is famously hospitable to unattractive, short, fat, bald men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

You get back what you put out. Wanted to be treated kindly? Don't be a dick.

This is just not universally true. I am a PP who gained weight (back to back pregnancies) and still have a good amount of weight to lose. I have ALWAYS been very polite and nice to service workers and people in general - it is just who I am. I am treated SO POORLY compared to when I was at my normal weight and size of 4/6. I always thought people were nice because I was nice. Now I realize it's because I was attractive. It's depressing AF.

It's the fat toll. If you are non white the toll is more.

But again...pretty sure men don't pay a "fat toll" (or a slovenly toll, or an old toll, or a grumpy toll). They don't have to DO or NOT DO anything to be treated respectfully and/or to receive good service.

Yes, the world is famously hospitable to unattractive, short, fat, bald men.

I think unattractive, short, fat, bald men are still treated more reverentially/respectfully than any woman. On average, in general, across countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember my first invisible moment clearly. I was 40 and made eye contact with a man in my age range on the street I smiled, but he looked right through me as if I wasn't even there. Then it happened again. And again. But I'll always remember the first time.

Now I'm almost 56, and I'm comfortable in my invisibility. It's shocking to me when a man (usually older, lol) seems to be checking me out. I literally don't know what to do in those moments anymore. All I am thinking is please stop. I feel too exposed.

I had a man stop me recently and say 'I was just noticing you. You are so beautiful' Then he walked away. Every red flag went up in my brain. I am not used to any attention anymore and it felt so foreign. Nothing came of either. I think he was just being kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[mastodon]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

You get back what you put out. Wanted to be treated kindly? Don't be a dick.

This is just not universally true. I am a PP who gained weight (back to back pregnancies) and still have a good amount of weight to lose. I have ALWAYS been very polite and nice to service workers and people in general - it is just who I am. I am treated SO POORLY compared to when I was at my normal weight and size of 4/6. I always thought people were nice because I was nice. Now I realize it's because I was attractive. It's depressing AF.

It's the fat toll. If you are non white the toll is more.

But again...pretty sure men don't pay a "fat toll" (or a slovenly toll, or an old toll, or a grumpy toll). They don't have to DO or NOT DO anything to be treated respectfully and/or to receive good service.

Yes, the world is famously hospitable to unattractive, short, fat, bald men.

George, you're not getting too much sympathy here.

[Anonymous]

When I don't put effort into my appearance, yes. But I'm 100% okay with it. I don't like it when guys look me up and down and the people who matter most don't care about how I look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember my first invisible moment clearly. I was 40 and made eye contact with a man in my age range on the street I smiled, but he looked right through me as if I wasn't even there. Then it happened again. And again. But I'll always remember the first time.

Now I'm almost 56, and I'm comfortable in my invisibility. It's shocking to me when a man (usually older, lol) seems to be checking me out. I literally don't know what to do in those moments anymore. All I am thinking is please stop. I feel too exposed.

I had a man stop me recently and say 'I was just noticing you. You are so beautiful' Then he walked away. Every red flag went up in my brain. I am not used to any attention anymore and it felt so foreign. Nothing came of either. I think he was just being kind.

Maybe he thought he was being kind but to do that to you when he doesn't know you is inappropriate. Why do men think it's okay to do these things?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

White men especially just need to show up. And white women are more likely to be partnered with white men, so white women probably see this discrepancy in treatment customer service wise than women of other ethnicities do.

This!

In our 40s and I am watching my DH become more respected with every new gray hair and wrinkle, at the same time that I see the reverse effect for myself. I also have noticed that becoming a father has made people view my DH, automatically, as more responsible and mature, but I've noticed this weird condescension towards me since I had a kid, where people are more likely to give me unsolicited life advice or second-guess things I say. And of course our behavior as parents is treated totally different -- what is considered "overprotective" or "anxious" in me is considered admirable, strong parenting in my DH, but what is considered "lax" or "lazy" in me is considered reasonable and restrained in my DH.

I feel like these double standards are less obvious when you are younger and don't have kids -- there's more of an illusion that men and women are equal professionally and socially. I have a higher level of education and have always made a higher salary than my DH, so I never before would have said that I was taken LESS seriously than he was. But now I absolutely am.

OMG this is so true, particularly the bolded. I am fine being invisible to strangers or that people aren't as nice to me as they used to be because of my appearance, but I admit these double standards tick me off.