Women: do you feel like you became invisible, or treated worth, starting in your 40s?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also have noticed that becoming a father has made people view my DH, automatically, as more responsible and mature, but I've noticed this weird condescension towards me since I had a kid, where people are more likely to give me unsolicited life advice or second-guess things I say. And of course our behavior as parents is treated totally different -- what is considered "overprotective" or "anxious" in me is considered admirable, strong parenting in my DH, but what is considered "lax" or "lazy" in me is considered reasonable and restrained in my DH.

DH here and when our DDs were younger, I"d take them out on my own during the afternoons when the nanny finished early. I could pretty much do no wrong when I had two cute toddlers with me. People would offer to let me cut in line. People would come up to me and tell me what a great job I was doing (when I really don't think I was), and the ultimate -- the postal worker was locking the door at 4:59pm and reopened it when they saw me rushing towards it with stroller and kids in tow.

I figured this is what pretty women in their 20s feel like, minus the kids bit. The double standard was fun while it lasted, now the kids are older and it's more common to see fathers with kids at an older age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Definitely a lot more invisible. I had cancer, too, and I think the treatment really aged me.

In some ways, being invisible is nice. I joke to DH that I would make the best spy ever.

But it is kind of disturbing that I can move through the world without very little notice.

Cancer treatment having to do with hormones definitely ages you. My current treatment made me lose a lot of hair and what’s left looks dead and damaged. Dried out skin, no eyebrows. No fun.

[Anonymous]

60, pretty much out to seed says everyone. Me? Just getting started. F everybody, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now you know how the "nice guys" felt in their 20s. Always overlooked for the "bad boy" guy who can't even hold down a job.

Yes, let's make a post about womens' feelings about men.

And no, this is a ridiculously silly generalization about what all women want. And lbh, taking the post which concerns the feelings of women and turns it to (shocker) attacking them.

I never dated a bad boy, much less one who couldn't hold down a job.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

You get back what you put out. Wanted to be treated kindly? Don't be a dick.

This is just not universally true. I am a PP who gained weight (back to back pregnancies) and still have a good amount of weight to lose. I have ALWAYS been very polite and nice to service workers and people in general - it is just who I am. I am treated SO POORLY compared to when I was at my normal weight and size of 4/6. I always thought people were nice because I was nice. Now I realize it's because I was attractive. It's depressing AF.

+1000

I have gained close to 100 pounds over the last 10 years or so because of a medication. Before that, I was very thin, and in my early 20s I modeled. I had no idea how well treated I was -- I took it for granted -- before I gained all of the weight. Now I realize how well I was treated back then, and know it was because I was so attractive. And it was both men and women. Now I get treated super poorly. I'm still behaving the exact same way and doing the same things and going to the same places.

I've posted about this before but I remember when I was a teenager my mom and I were at a bowling alley (of all places, I think it's the only time I've ever been, lol). There were three children there -- a brother and sister at one end of the place with a group, and a little girl of about the same age with a group at the other end of the place. The siblings were not attractive, the little girl was gorgeous. They were all mid ES age. They were all poorly behaved and running around like crazy. The siblings weren't as bad as the little girl. People got very irritated, even angry, with the behavior of the siblings. People smiled and chatted with the little girl and thought she was adorable. They literally adored her for the same behavior that caused them to dislike the other kids. My mother pointed it out. It was stark. I've never forgotten it.

The interesting part of this story is that your mother made you aware of this treatment since you were a teenager but you never thought it applied to you, even thought you were so attractive you modeled?

I think I thought of it in the context of screaming kids and that was it. I didn't ponder anything all that hard at that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:60, pretty much out to seed says everyone. Me? Just getting started. F everybody, right?

Yeah, okay. I'm sure a "sassy" attitude will fix things for women treated poorly due to ageism, racism, ableism, and the bias against people who don't look like supermodels that we've been talking about here. Sure.

[Anonymous]

I was so darn young looking in my 20s and early 30s that it hurt my career. It wasn’t until my late 30s and 40s, after some style coaching, that I felt I was at my peak. I wasn’t getting hit on but I definitely could see I was getting a good deal of attention and not just from husband. But age does eventually catch up to you. I still look younger than my actual age which makes me feel good but I’m not interested in turning on some 75 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea why this post is out there. Man in my 60s here who basically never looks at women of any age because all I have ever heard my entire life is that women hate unwanted attention. Objectively, I find some women in their 50s and 60s attractive, but have no interest in any kind of public interaction.

Not all of us are talking about that sort of attention from men. Did you not see the part about service people and waiters ignoring us? You really think that sounds like something men would enjoy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea why this post is out there. Man in my 60s here who basically never looks at women of any age because all I have ever heard my entire life is that women hate unwanted attention. Objectively, I find some women in their 50s and 60s attractive, but have no interest in any kind of public interaction.

Not all of us are talking about that sort of attention from men. Did you not see the part about service people and waiters ignoring us? You really think that sounds like something men would enjoy?

OP here and thank you. I'm married and not interested in getting that kind of attention from men and am happy to give it up. I'm talking about something different, like a loss of general social status I've noticed with age. I feel that people are more dismissive of me and zone out if I talk for more than a moment. I don't care if they think I'm hot or not, but I feel like they think I'm so pointless and unimportant that they can ignore me altogether, even when, at least theoretically, I'm in a situation where I have som authority or leverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't feel this way, or maybe I just don't experience it as a loss. I am not unattractive, but never banked on my looks (or maybe just wasn't pretty enough to be able to?) or cared much what men thought of me. At 58, I am slim and do color my hair but wear minimal makeup and dress pretty plainly. I have been successful at work, so I'm in a position where everybody in the office pays attention to me. My DH thinks I'm great, and my young adult kids visit frequently and still seek my advice occasionally. I've got good friends and enough money to live comfortably. If a clerk "overlooks" me in line, I speak up and make myself noticed, and I don't waste much time thinking about what it means.

Hi Boss! Yes, I look up to you in the office too. Please help us by promoting more women the way men promote each other.

Don't worry, I got you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea why this post is out there. Man in my 60s here who basically never looks at women of any age because all I have ever heard my entire life is that women hate unwanted attention. Objectively, I find some women in their 50s and 60s attractive, but have no interest in any kind of public interaction.

Not all of us are talking about that sort of attention from men. Did you not see the part about service people and waiters ignoring us? You really think that sounds like something men would enjoy?

OP here and thank you. I'm married and not interested in getting that kind of attention from men and am happy to give it up. I'm talking about something different, like a loss of general social status I've noticed with age. I feel that people are more dismissive of me and zone out if I talk for more than a moment. I don't care if they think I'm hot or not, but I feel like they think I'm so pointless and unimportant that they can ignore me altogether, even when, at least theoretically, I'm in a situation where I have som authority or leverage.

Right? Leave it to chauvinistic men to assume we are talking about being sexually attractive to men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP here and thank you. I'm married and not interested in getting that kind of attention from men and am happy to give it up. I'm talking about something different, like a loss of general social status I've noticed with age. I feel that people are more dismissive of me and zone out if I talk for more than a moment. I don't care if they think I'm hot or not, but I feel like they think I'm so pointless and unimportant that they can ignore me altogether, even when, at least theoretically, I'm in a situation where I have som authority or leverage.

The cruel joke is that, ultimately, we're all pointless and unimportant.

[Anonymous]

I'm sending hugs to all of you who are feeling this way. I will say (I'm 44) if you want to be treated differently, you need to probably start to act differently. To the OP, I'm betting you convey a ton more confidence when you spend a little more time on your appearance, so just make a little effort! I know that when I go out in sweats with no makeup, I tend to keep my head down and probably don't invite any attention. But I mostly find this time of life really great - I'm doing well at work, we have money, my kids are getting older and more independent. I'm happier - and I probably am able to convey this in external situations.

Heck, my mom (72) gets tons of attention. She is always put together, and most importantly - always smiling and willing to chat up strangers. People love her.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm 58. i am only invisible when I am by myself or with a group of women my age. When I'm with my young adult kids or spouse, no one ignores me. But when with my friends - absolutely unseen.

The worst is restaurants. We are big tippers (really!) but women have a reputation of not being big tippers. We get lousy service almost all the time. And we get worse table than when with our spouses, too.

Oh, and I still dye my hair, and I'm thin and fit. And I dress well and in very expensive clothes (think Lori Piana, not Gucci). Doesn't matter at all.

So true!!!

I was a waitress when I was a teen and I was very cognizant guilty of this. Middle aged women were the worst tippers. Now that I'm an invisible wealthy middle aged woman, who tips well, I'm embarrassed by this. I do explain this to my daughters, but they don't really 'get it'.. No one ever explained it to me and I would have changed my behavior if I had known.

The tipping is probably an negative feedback loop. Middle aged women recieve worse service and therefore tip worse, so they recieve worse service.

I think it's a stereotype that emerged from a time when middle aged women just legitimately didn't have very much money, or didn't have much control over their money.

I think about my mom, who was a SAHM in the 70s and 80s. She had money but it wasn't "hers" and she was particularly reluctant to spend money on herself. Plus there's this whole dynamic with middle aged women and food and self-denial. So this translated to her being the kind of restaurant patron who would order an appetizer or a side salad with a Diet Coke as a meal, and tip 10%. It was not done out of a desire to stiff the server, but out of a belief that she didn't deserve more than that, that having more would be shameful, and also that any money she spends should really be going to her husband or kids.

Women like that don't really exist anymore. There are still SAHMs, but there is a greater sense that what SAHMs do is economically valuable and therefore I think they feel more comfortable spending money on themselves than they did a couple generations ago. And most women work in some capacity at this point -- even most SAHMs do it only temporarily, and work before and after. It's not like the 50s when the class of women most likely to go to restaurants (UMC white women) tended to be people who had never held regular jobs, relied on fathers or husbands for "spending money" and were not even legally allowed to have their own savings or checking accounts.

So the stereotype that middle aged women are bad tippers comes straight out of misogyny, just like a lot of negative stereotypes about marginalized people.

I literally never thought about it like this and it totally makes sense. I think you make a good point.

Agreed. Plus, the ubiquitous "mom" haircut did very few women any favors.

But all of the responses around how to avoid dismissive/borderline hostile treatment are just as rooted in misogyny as this take: color your hair! Stay fit and thin! Wear makeup! Dress nicely!

What do men have to do to be treated with respect? Show up.

You get back what you put out. Wanted to be treated kindly? Don't be a dick.

This is just not universally true. I am a PP who gained weight (back to back pregnancies) and still have a good amount of weight to lose. I have ALWAYS been very polite and nice to service workers and people in general - it is just who I am. I am treated SO POORLY compared to when I was at my normal weight and size of 4/6. I always thought people were nice because I was nice. Now I realize it's because I was attractive. It's depressing AF.

It's the fat toll. If you are non white the toll is more.

But again...pretty sure men don't pay a "fat toll" (or a slovenly toll, or an old toll, or a grumpy toll). They don't have to DO or NOT DO anything to be treated respectfully and/or to receive good service.

Yes, the world is famously hospitable to unattractive, short, fat, bald men.

George, you're not getting too much sympathy here.

Any man who has a shot with Marisa Tomei is worthy of respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Invisible to whom? Career wise I feel like I’ve hit my peak at 60. Age/experience is a huge advantage in my field. Outside of work I mostly socialize with people in my general age cohort.

I wear makeup every day, dress decently, and am not overweight (anymore) but not sure that makes a difference. Sure, a 30 year old guy isn’t going to pay attention to me, but it would be weird if he did.

Curious what type of career appreciates you more with age?