What do you think is the origin behind men always being expected to make the first move, ask the woman out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt I'm the only person or the only guy in the world that's always had a lifelong hatred or resentment towards this. Guys always being expected to make the first move and ask the girl out, be the initiators,or they say, men court women, etc.

What is the origin behind that you think?

It's probably the main thing or the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender, it's like why can't women go after men too right?

There are other things I resent about it to but I don't want to get too much deep into it but I might answer it as I reply to comments.

When people say "that's the way it is", makes me more mad and angry and only adds fuel to fire towards my resentment.

Some people say it's not always like this, and that the world is slowly changing about this.

But I mostly doubt and part of me thinks that it'll be this way for all eternity.

Then nut up. This is the game, such as it is, as you have acknowledged so play or sit on the sidelines but this whining is unattractive.

Women go after men ALL the time. Apparently they’re just not going after you.

You have to either be extremely attractive or extremely lucky to have a woman make the first move on you as a guy. If you’re an average dude and never ask a woman out in your entire life, there’s probably a 99% chance you’ll die a virgin. Of course with hot guys it’s different.

I’m pretty average and didn’t overcome my fear of asking women out until mid 20’s, and I was a virgin until then. Since I started dating I’ve been with over a dozen (I had to make the first move every time). I felt invisible to women and still do unless I go out of my way to get their attention. That’s life for most of us men.

Were you invisible to women or just invisible to women you were interested in?

I never had any woman go out of her way to talk to me follow through to actually ask me out. On two occasions over a period of 12 years I had some women go out of their way to talk to me, and it became apparent months later that they were interested, but I was too oblivious in the first case and lacked confidence to escalate things in the second case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh lord, it has nothing to do with any kind of social construct, “patriarchy”… whatever you want to call it. These posters have no clue.

It’s biology, duh. Patriarchy comes from biology anyway.

Men are hard wired to want to procreate with as many women as possible, thus are more promiscuous, because the cost/benefit of promiscuity is much more in favor of men than women.

Now, men who are more timid and don’t make the first move historically are less likely to reproduce. Men who are sexually aggressive are more likely to have their genes passed on. These traits didn’t even originate in humans, they came from other species that we descended from. In almost all species the males are more aggressive at pursuing the females for mating, with few exceptions.

This is nothing to do with any kind of artificial social construct.

NP. The artificial social construct arose from biology, which is well described in this post.

That all makes sense for animals. But humans are conscious and capable of making logical decisions, and spiritual and emotional connections. Therefore we are not monkeys at the mercy of our instincts and chemical urges.

Humans date. Animals don't.

Animals date. Read gorilla politics. Also My cat dated. She had several “suitors” then seemed to pick one which she hung out with all the time.

Best post ever!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt I'm the only person or the only guy in the world that's always had a lifelong hatred or resentment towards this. Guys always being expected to make the first move and ask the girl out, be the initiators,or they say, men court women, etc.

What is the origin behind that you think?

It's probably the main thing or the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender, it's like why can't women go after men too right?

There are other things I resent about it to but I don't want to get too much deep into it but I might answer it as I reply to comments.

When people say "that's the way it is", makes me more mad and angry and only adds fuel to fire towards my resentment.

Some people say it's not always like this, and that the world is slowly changing about this.

But I mostly doubt and part of me thinks that it'll be this way for all eternity.

Then nut up. This is the game, such as it is, as you have acknowledged so play or sit on the sidelines but this whining is unattractive.

Women go after men ALL the time. Apparently they’re just not going after you. And you feel entitled to their attention. Can’t understand why it might not be working… 😒

No they don’t. At least not like men go after women.

Making eye contact or starting a conversation doesn’t count because you still have plausible deniability about your intentions. At some point, someone must risk rejection by and making their romantic intentions clear. 9 times out of 10, it’s the man who does this. Even desirable guys nearly always have to initiate.

[Anonymous]

It may be nice to be the one who gets to be courted, but the grass is always greener on the other side.

For every desirable man who approaches, you have to reject to the approaches of other men whom you are not attracted to. Sometimes those men don’t react well to rejection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt I'm the only person or the only guy in the world that's always had a lifelong hatred or resentment towards this. Guys always being expected to make the first move and ask the girl out, be the initiators,or they say, men court women, etc.

What is the origin behind that you think?

It's probably the main thing or the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender, it's like why can't women go after men too right?

There are other things I resent about it to but I don't want to get too much deep into it but I might answer it as I reply to comments.

When people say "that's the way it is", makes me more mad and angry and only adds fuel to fire towards my resentment.

Some people say it's not always like this, and that the world is slowly changing about this.

But I mostly doubt and part of me thinks that it'll be this way for all eternity.

Then nut up. This is the game, such as it is, as you have acknowledged so play or sit on the sidelines but this whining is unattractive.

Women go after men ALL the time. Apparently they’re just not going after you. And you feel entitled to their attention. Can’t understand why it might not be working… 😒

No they don’t. At least not like men go after women.

Making eye contact or starting a conversation doesn’t count because you still have plausible deniability about your intentions. At some point, someone must risk rejection by and making their romantic intentions clear. 9 times out of 10, it’s the man who does this. Even desirable guys nearly always have to initiate.

Men are routinely chastised for thinking that a woman making eye contact, starting a conversation, or being nice is some kind of a romantic invitation. And rightly so, because very often they are not any kind of invitation. So, if a woman thinks that something like that counts as initiation, I would very much disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tbe origin is patriarchy but I think women should pay attention to it and sometimes accept the reality.

Generally speaking, if a guy is interested in you, he is either a “go for what I want” kind of guy or he is shy and will need a ton of encouragement to make the first move. You can tell which is which. If the guy is shy, feel free to give him your number, ask him out, etc. If he is the kind of guy who goes after what he wants, women should be nice and flirt a bit but they shouldn’t make moves.

In hetero relationships, the man must like/love the woman the same or more than the women. Men will not work on relationships unless they are deeply in love with their partner. You don’t want to be with a guy who “gave in,” felt obligated, or felt like he couldn’t get anybody better so he settled for someone who was willing. Those relationships are probably going to suck for the woman.

Yeah it's always filled me with anger and resentment as to why nature and reality makes it out to be that going for what you want or going after what you want is a masculine thing to do

[Anonymous]

The sex who incurs the greatest cost in bearing offspring is understandably the most vulnerable and therefore the most selective in choosing a mate. Women can produce life which makes them as individuals more valuable. Men compete for access to mates, which is why they have to pursue. If you don’t, the other guy definitely will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tbe origin is patriarchy but I think women should pay attention to it and sometimes accept the reality.

Generally speaking, if a guy is interested in you, he is either a “go for what I want” kind of guy or he is shy and will need a ton of encouragement to make the first move. You can tell which is which. If the guy is shy, feel free to give him your number, ask him out, etc. If he is the kind of guy who goes after what he wants, women should be nice and flirt a bit but they shouldn’t make moves.

In hetero relationships, the man must like/love the woman the same or more than the women. Men will not work on relationships unless they are deeply in love with their partner. You don’t want to be with a guy who “gave in,” felt obligated, or felt like he couldn’t get anybody better so he settled for someone who was willing. Those relationships are probably going to suck for the woman.

Yeah it's always filled me with anger and resentment as to why nature and reality makes it out to be that going for what you want or going after what you want is a masculine thing to do

I don’t think so, it’s just about adjusting your behavior for the circumstances. A lot of men are totally fine with getting asked out and many happy marriages started out with the woman proposing. And sometimes it’s a mutual thing. Going after what you want doesn’t have to be a gendered act. But if a guy is the type of person who goes after what he wants, and he isn’t going after you, that is a big clue you shouldn’t ignore. But a lot of women do, for some reason.

[Anonymous]

Yeah men always being expected to approach women or being expected to make the first move and ask the woman out and be the initiators is probably the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sex who incurs the greatest cost in bearing offspring is understandably the most vulnerable and therefore the most selective in choosing a mate. Women can produce life which makes them as individuals more valuable. Men compete for access to mates, which is why they have to pursue. If you don’t, the other guy definitely will.

I'd say there is some truth to that, but I'd say what makes us humans different from most animals is that we do not solely have sex just for reproducing only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The sex who incurs the greatest cost in bearing offspring is understandably the most vulnerable and therefore the most selective in choosing a mate. Women can produce life which makes them as individuals more valuable. Men compete for access to mates, which is why they have to pursue. If you don’t, the other guy definitely will.

Parental investment Theory I think

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt I'm the only person or the only guy in the world that's always had a lifelong hatred or resentment towards this. Guys always being expected to make the first move and ask the girl out, be the initiators,or they say, men court women, etc.

What is the origin behind that you think?

It's probably the main thing or the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender, it's like why can't women go after men too right?

There are other things I resent about it to but I don't want to get too much deep into it but I might answer it as I reply to comments.

When people say "that's the way it is", makes me more mad and angry and only adds fuel to fire towards my resentment.

Some people say it's not always like this, and that the world is slowly changing about this.

But I mostly doubt and part of me thinks that it'll be this way for all eternity.

Then nut up. This is the game, such as it is, as you have acknowledged so play or sit on the sidelines but this whining is unattractive.

Women go after men ALL the time. Apparently they’re just not going after you.

You have to either be extremely attractive or extremely lucky to have a woman make the first move on you as a guy. If you’re an average dude and never ask a woman out in your entire life, there’s probably a 99% chance you’ll die a virgin. Of course with hot guys it’s different.

I’m pretty average and didn’t overcome my fear of asking women out until mid 20’s, and I was a virgin until then. Since I started dating I’ve been with over a dozen (I had to make the first move every time). I felt invisible to women and still do unless I go out of my way to get their attention. That’s life for most of us men.

Dude, you are me. My dating life picked up late 20s. Learned that once you earn an MBA from a good school, women find you more attractive.

[Anonymous]

Millennial beta sob story.