What do you think is the origin behind men always being expected to make the first move, ask the woman out?

[Anonymous]

for women it is often difficult to climax via sex and many do not see the benefits of having a man around in the first place. You have to feed them and entertain them. They come with a lot of risks and not a lot of obvious benefits. They can kill you, infect you, impregnate you or abuse you. Many are perfectly happy being alone with our cats, that said courtship is the process of coaxing us to give up that perfectly happy and stable life for one with risks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:for women it is often difficult to climax via sex and many do not see the benefits of having a man around in the first place. You have to feed them and entertain them. They come with a lot of risks and not a lot of obvious benefits. They can kill you, infect you, impregnate you or abuse you. Many are perfectly happy being alone with our cats, that said courtship is the process of coaxing us to give up that perfectly happy and stable life for one with risks.

Standing applause ❤️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:for women it is often difficult to climax via sex and many do not see the benefits of having a man around in the first place. You have to feed them and entertain them. They come with a lot of risks and not a lot of obvious benefits. They can kill you, infect you, impregnate you or abuse you. Many are perfectly happy being alone with our cats, that said courtship is the process of coaxing us to give up that perfectly happy and stable life for one with risks.

So relationships are bound for failure if the woman asks the guy out, if the woman is the initiator?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:for women it is often difficult to climax via sex and many do not see the benefits of having a man around in the first place. You have to feed them and entertain them. They come with a lot of risks and not a lot of obvious benefits. They can kill you, infect you, impregnate you or abuse you. Many are perfectly happy being alone with our cats, that said courtship is the process of coaxing us to give up that perfectly happy and stable life for one with risks.

So relationships are bound for failure if the woman asks the guy out, if the woman is the initiator?

No. But what’s my motivation? Money? 50 percent of relationships fail regardless of who asks. Do you see the rich guy posts? Read “Split 50/50 with my SAHM spouse”

[Anonymous]

I’ve only read the first and last pages of this thread, but in my experience as a mom of teens, this isn’t the case anymore. My HS Junior son has had three “girlfriends” (not serious but acknowledged, IYKWIM) and all three have made the first move. I think a lot of shyer boys would just bop along, maybe having unacted-on crushes, if the girls didn’t make it clear they’re interested. It seems to me that girls are much further along emotionally than boys, so it’s kind of up to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women aren’t throwing themselves at guys for “being a caring friend and family member.”

I did! Married 25+ years and have 3 kids. I've always made more $$ than DH and am academically smarter. He's what the incels would call a 'beta'.

Yet, he's got high emotional intelligence, is warm, caring, very involved with the kids, learned to maintain all our vehicles and learned to fix most things around the house. Best sex I've ever had. He's definitely smart in a way different from me but we have a lot of similar interests. Even after all these years together, I love being with him.

There's a lid for every pot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women aren’t throwing themselves at guys for “being a caring friend and family member.”

I did! Married 25+ years and have 3 kids. I've always made more $$ than DH and am academically smarter. He's what the incels would call a 'beta'.

Yet, he's got high emotional intelligence, is warm, caring, very involved with the kids, learned to maintain all our vehicles and learned to fix most things around the house. Best sex I've ever had. He's definitely smart in a way different from me but we have a lot of similar interests. Even after all these years together, I love being with him.

There's a lid for every pot.

This cliche is so cringe. I wish it would die away

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve only read the first and last pages of this thread, but in my experience as a mom of teens, this isn’t the case anymore. My HS Junior son has had three “girlfriends” (not serious but acknowledged, IYKWIM) and all three have made the first move. I think a lot of shyer boys would just bop along, maybe having unacted-on crushes, if the girls didn’t make it clear they’re interested. It seems to me that girls are much further along emotionally than boys, so it’s kind of up to them.

My son had a 3 year relationship that started this way. She was a senior in high school and he was a sophomore. He never would have made that move. (The long distance college thing got in the way, which is sort of a shame because they were great together. Too bad they didn't get together maybe 5 or 6 years later.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women aren’t throwing themselves at guys for “being a caring friend and family member.”

I did! Married 25+ years and have 3 kids. I've always made more $$ than DH and am academically smarter. He's what the incels would call a 'beta'.

Yet, he's got high emotional intelligence, is warm, caring, very involved with the kids, learned to maintain all our vehicles and learned to fix most things around the house. Best sex I've ever had. He's definitely smart in a way different from me but we have a lot of similar interests. Even after all these years together, I love being with him.

There's a lid for every pot.

This cliche is so cringe. I wish it would die away

Yet, if the shoe fits...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve only read the first and last pages of this thread, but in my experience as a mom of teens, this isn’t the case anymore. My HS Junior son has had three “girlfriends” (not serious but acknowledged, IYKWIM) and all three have made the first move. I think a lot of shyer boys would just bop along, maybe having unacted-on crushes, if the girls didn’t make it clear they’re interested. It seems to me that girls are much further along emotionally than boys, so it’s kind of up to them.

My son had a 3 year relationship that started this way. She was a senior in high school and he was a sophomore. He never would have made that move. (The long distance college thing got in the way, which is sort of a shame because they were great together. Too bad they didn't get together maybe 5 or 6 years later.)

Interesting, did they ask him out first?

[Anonymous]

Tbe origin is patriarchy but I think women should pay attention to it and sometimes accept the reality.

Generally speaking, if a guy is interested in you, he is either a “go for what I want” kind of guy or he is shy and will need a ton of encouragement to make the first move. You can tell which is which. If the guy is shy, feel free to give him your number, ask him out, etc. If he is the kind of guy who goes after what he wants, women should be nice and flirt a bit but they shouldn’t make moves.

In hetero relationships, the man must like/love the woman the same or more than the women. Men will not work on relationships unless they are deeply in love with their partner. You don’t want to be with a guy who “gave in,” felt obligated, or felt like he couldn’t get anybody better so he settled for someone who was willing. Those relationships are probably going to suck for the woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because women were considered property until quite recently, and men didn't ask women if they could go out with them. They asked their fathers, who owned these women. And then if they married (only with the father's permission), the woman became her husband's property.

This. I mean, this rule is embedded in 20,000 years of the world sucking for women. Sorry that for 40 years, it's slightly tilted the balance in favor of women.

I am not a zoologist, but aren’t males the initiator in most non-human animals? Does this mean the world has been sucking for females since the Cambrian explosion? That must be rough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt I'm the only person or the only guy in the world that's always had a lifelong hatred or resentment towards this. Guys always being expected to make the first move and ask the girl out, be the initiators,or they say, men court women, etc.

What is the origin behind that you think?

It's probably the main thing or the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender, it's like why can't women go after men too right?

There are other things I resent about it to but I don't want to get too much deep into it but I might answer it as I reply to comments.

When people say "that's the way it is", makes me more mad and angry and only adds fuel to fire towards my resentment.

Some people say it's not always like this, and that the world is slowly changing about this.

But I mostly doubt and part of me thinks that it'll be this way for all eternity.

Then nut up. This is the game, such as it is, as you have acknowledged so play or sit on the sidelines but this whining is unattractive.

Women go after men ALL the time. Apparently they’re just not going after you.

You have to either be extremely attractive or extremely lucky to have a woman make the first move on you as a guy. If you’re an average dude and never ask a woman out in your entire life, there’s probably a 99% chance you’ll die a virgin. Of course with hot guys it’s different.

I’m pretty average and didn’t overcome my fear of asking women out until mid 20’s, and I was a virgin until then. Since I started dating I’ve been with over a dozen (I had to make the first move every time). I felt invisible to women and still do unless I go out of my way to get their attention. That’s life for most of us men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt I'm the only person or the only guy in the world that's always had a lifelong hatred or resentment towards this. Guys always being expected to make the first move and ask the girl out, be the initiators,or they say, men court women, etc.

What is the origin behind that you think?

It's probably the main thing or the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender, it's like why can't women go after men too right?

There are other things I resent about it to but I don't want to get too much deep into it but I might answer it as I reply to comments.

When people say "that's the way it is", makes me more mad and angry and only adds fuel to fire towards my resentment.

Some people say it's not always like this, and that the world is slowly changing about this.

But I mostly doubt and part of me thinks that it'll be this way for all eternity.

Then nut up. This is the game, such as it is, as you have acknowledged so play or sit on the sidelines but this whining is unattractive.

Women go after men ALL the time. Apparently they’re just not going after you.

You have to either be extremely attractive or extremely lucky to have a woman make the first move on you as a guy. If you’re an average dude and never ask a woman out in your entire life, there’s probably a 99% chance you’ll die a virgin. Of course with hot guys it’s different.

I’m pretty average and didn’t overcome my fear of asking women out until mid 20’s, and I was a virgin until then. Since I started dating I’ve been with over a dozen (I had to make the first move every time). I felt invisible to women and still do unless I go out of my way to get their attention. That’s life for most of us men.

Were you invisible to women or just invisible to women you were interested in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I doubt I'm the only person or the only guy in the world that's always had a lifelong hatred or resentment towards this. Guys always being expected to make the first move and ask the girl out, be the initiators,or they say, men court women, etc.

What is the origin behind that you think?

It's probably the main thing or the number one thing I've always hated about being born the male gender, it's like why can't women go after men too right?

There are other things I resent about it to but I don't want to get too much deep into it but I might answer it as I reply to comments.

When people say "that's the way it is", makes me more mad and angry and only adds fuel to fire towards my resentment.

Some people say it's not always like this, and that the world is slowly changing about this.

But I mostly doubt and part of me thinks that it'll be this way for all eternity.

Then nut up. This is the game, such as it is, as you have acknowledged so play or sit on the sidelines but this whining is unattractive.

Women go after men ALL the time. Apparently they’re just not going after you.

You have to either be extremely attractive or extremely lucky to have a woman make the first move on you as a guy. If you’re an average dude and never ask a woman out in your entire life, there’s probably a 99% chance you’ll die a virgin. Of course with hot guys it’s different.

I’m pretty average and didn’t overcome my fear of asking women out until mid 20’s, and I was a virgin until then. Since I started dating I’ve been with over a dozen (I had to make the first move every time). I felt invisible to women and still do unless I go out of my way to get their attention. That’s life for most of us men.

Were you invisible to women or just invisible to women you were interested in?

DP. But similar story. Invisible to women generally. Women I wasn't interested in also were not making the first move on me. And while I'm not an Adonis or anything, I'm not ugly. I'm pretty funny, bathe and groom myself regularly, reasonably engaging, have a good education ... and, no woman has taken the initiative to ask me out.

I'm just some anonymous rando on the Internet, so you'll have to take my word for all of this. But I don't think my experience is all that uncommon for average, but not hideous guys.