Behavior in DD's school/grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes you just get stuck with a really bad cohort and the terrible thing is that it lasts for six years in elementary school. Third grade in my school is particularly bad too. I definitely think it’s some lingering Covid effects.

I don’t buy Covid excuses. These third graders have been in school for over 2 years now

Exactly. If anything it's the PARENTS who were the most dysregulated during stay at home. That's why kids weren't properly parented.

Mind-blowing and accurate observation. Parents in our very nice neighborhood and at our private school went off the rails during stay at home. I’m on the west coast, and where I live there were constant day drinking parties, shipping the kids off to grandparents’ houses during virtual school for months so they could go solo to wine country or the desert, or parents working full time at home but not having any childcare for very young kids. The kids are a mess at school, but the adults are even worse in how they chafe at expectations. I don’t know how we unwind this mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

Your daughter isn’t the only bewildered one. Why are you keeping her at that school- that’s what is bewildering. It isn’t going to get better. People have been telling you to move schools.

I know, right? Crazy I haven’t moved her already in the 24 hours since I posted this.

My question was, is this the norm of public schools these days? Some say yes, some say no. I’m contemplating putting in for a transfer for her for 4th grade, but the transfer window for next year doesn’t open till spring and transfers are never guaranteed. Working through options currently.

And as I mentioned, last year felt a lot better so I kind of thought they grew out of the crazy behavior… but guess not. Or DD just had a better teacher last year. Hard to know.

You wrote: "Every time I'm there, I leave just sad and slightly depressed. It is a chaotic, joyless environment where no one seems to want to be there - kids and adults alike." It is puzzling you haven't done anything and this is her 4th year at this public school. And you are only "contemplating" putting in for a transfer? Be more proactive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

Your daughter isn’t the only bewildered one. Why are you keeping her at that school- that’s what is bewildering. It isn’t going to get better. People have been telling you to move schools.

I know, right? Crazy I haven’t moved her already in the 24 hours since I posted this.

My question was, is this the norm of public schools these days? Some say yes, some say no. I’m contemplating putting in for a transfer for her for 4th grade, but the transfer window for next year doesn’t open till spring and transfers are never guaranteed. Working through options currently.

And as I mentioned, last year felt a lot better so I kind of thought they grew out of the crazy behavior… but guess not. Or DD just had a better teacher last year. Hard to know.

It’s getting increasingly more common but I wouldn’t say it’s the norm. It sounds like your school doesn’t support teachers and I am sure parents are unhappy, so you can ask about neighboring schools and what they are like. I have substituted quite a bit in my area. My kid’s school was not as bad as yours but close and it was in large part thanks to a terrible principal who would never discipline someone who was a member of any underprivileged sub group, plus she constantly yelled at kids. The school next to us is a title 1 school with stricter (but not crazy strict) discipline and classrooms there were so much more calm. I wish my kid had gone to that school. Anyway, maybe you can seek out parents at other schools to see what they think of the school. Another thing you can do is look at teacher turnover rates. Our school had the highest turnover rate in the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

Your daughter isn’t the only bewildered one. Why are you keeping her at that school- that’s what is bewildering. It isn’t going to get better. People have been telling you to move schools.

I know, right? Crazy I haven’t moved her already in the 24 hours since I posted this.

My question was, is this the norm of public schools these days? Some say yes, some say no. I’m contemplating putting in for a transfer for her for 4th grade, but the transfer window for next year doesn’t open till spring and transfers are never guaranteed. Working through options currently.

And as I mentioned, last year felt a lot better so I kind of thought they grew out of the crazy behavior… but guess not. Or DD just had a better teacher last year. Hard to know.

You wrote: "Every time I'm there, I leave just sad and slightly depressed. It is a chaotic, joyless environment where no one seems to want to be there - kids and adults alike." It is puzzling you haven't done anything and this is her 4th year at this public school. And you are only "contemplating" putting in for a transfer? Be more proactive.

Op here. It’s our 3rd year. We did private kindergarten as I’ve mentioned.

I almost pulled her in 1st grade, fall 2021, as that was when her classroom was being evacuated 3-4x a week and she had a teacher that honestly was probably out of her league. I had a meeting with the principal, but then the principal added an additional teacher at semester so DD got a new teacher in January and was away from what I naively thought was the only real problem kid (when in reality they just kept all behavior kids out of this class to spare a new teacher and keep the behavior kids in their routines). Spring 2022 wasn’t perfect, but much calmer. I was impressed they added an additional teacher and thought that seemed like the principal was proactive.

2nd grade, she had a veteran teacher and none of the extreme behavior kids. I volunteered in her classroom some and noticed the general chaos and kids just being rude and not listening… I brought it up to other parents then and got the “it’s just a bad class” “they’re the covid kindergarteners” “that’s how kids are nowadays” etc excuses. It wasn’t a terrible year, I assumed it meant they were maturing. DD was mentioning her frustrations with group punishments. I talked to the teacher and got the sense her hands were tied due to admin.

3rd grade comes and we have some of the behavior kids again, plus the less “bad” kids really have not gotten any better with their behavior and are still little sh*ts. DD starts the year with a long term sub who was a veteran teacher who did a pretty good job wrangling the crazy, but again it just seems super chaotic. Actual teacher started at the beginning of 2nd quarter (so 6-8 weeks ago) and she just seems overwhelmed. There’s a big uptick in the behavior kids’ outbursts. The group punishments are at an all time high. And now here we are.

So judge away, but it’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

Your daughter isn’t the only bewildered one. Why are you keeping her at that school- that’s what is bewildering. It isn’t going to get better. People have been telling you to move schools.

I know, right? Crazy I haven’t moved her already in the 24 hours since I posted this.

My question was, is this the norm of public schools these days? Some say yes, some say no. I’m contemplating putting in for a transfer for her for 4th grade, but the transfer window for next year doesn’t open till spring and transfers are never guaranteed. Working through options currently.

And as I mentioned, last year felt a lot better so I kind of thought they grew out of the crazy behavior… but guess not. Or DD just had a better teacher last year. Hard to know.

You wrote: "Every time I'm there, I leave just sad and slightly depressed. It is a chaotic, joyless environment where no one seems to want to be there - kids and adults alike." It is puzzling you haven't done anything and this is her 4th year at this public school. And you are only "contemplating" putting in for a transfer? Be more proactive.

Op here. It’s our 3rd year. We did private kindergarten as I’ve mentioned.

I almost pulled her in 1st grade, fall 2021, as that was when her classroom was being evacuated 3-4x a week and she had a teacher that honestly was probably out of her league. I had a meeting with the principal, but then the principal added an additional teacher at semester so DD got a new teacher in January and was away from what I naively thought was the only real problem kid (when in reality they just kept all behavior kids out of this class to spare a new teacher and keep the behavior kids in their routines). Spring 2022 wasn’t perfect, but much calmer. I was impressed they added an additional teacher and thought that seemed like the principal was proactive.

2nd grade, she had a veteran teacher and none of the extreme behavior kids. I volunteered in her classroom some and noticed the general chaos and kids just being rude and not listening… I brought it up to other parents then and got the “it’s just a bad class” “they’re the covid kindergarteners” “that’s how kids are nowadays” etc excuses. It wasn’t a terrible year, I assumed it meant they were maturing. DD was mentioning her frustrations with group punishments. I talked to the teacher and got the sense her hands were tied due to admin.

3rd grade comes and we have some of the behavior kids again, plus the less “bad” kids really have not gotten any better with their behavior and are still little sh*ts. DD starts the year with a long term sub who was a veteran teacher who did a pretty good job wrangling the crazy, but again it just seems super chaotic. Actual teacher started at the beginning of 2nd quarter (so 6-8 weeks ago) and she just seems overwhelmed. There’s a big uptick in the behavior kids’ outbursts. The group punishments are at an all time high. And now here we are.

So judge away, but it’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

ALSO DD is my only child. I have nothing to compare our experience to except my own elementary school experience. Sounds like that’s like comparing apples and spaceships. I hear so many parents at other schools complaining too, so I’m just trying to figure out where today’s baseline is. I don’t want to move her unless I’m fairly certain it will be a better situation.

For anyone that’s transferred public schools, short of word of mouth, how do you know it’s better? Can you meet with the principal?

[Anonymous]

I doubt you’ll get a transfer. The only transfers I’ve heard of are for health reasons. Look into private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I doubt you’ll get a transfer. The only transfers I’ve heard of are for health reasons. Look into private schools.

Agree. Plus everyone tries to transfer to the “better” school if it isn’t assigned to them. Plus with public, more likely than not, it will be more of the same bad behavior, maybe worse. Do private. I promise you won’t be the only non-catholic in catholic school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I doubt you’ll get a transfer. The only transfers I’ve heard of are for health reasons. Look into private schools.

Op here. Actually in our district, I know many that have gotten a transfer. There are some schools that won’t accept additional students (ours is one due to overcrowding) but it’s actually not a long shot. I’d put in for probably 2 schools. I think they are “better” but they still aren’t the most desirable schools in the nicest area so they fly under the radar. They’re both close to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

Is this why screens are used so much at school too? Because teachers don't have to interact with them as much? It's not about "preparing them for the technology of the future" like they tell us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

If that were true, all schools would have this problem. But, it's not across all schools. Just the one too terrified to actually discipline or have consequences.

It’s across all public schools, especially ones where parents are less educated and lower income. The screens are more likely to be always on for those kids and for their parents too. But agree that school discipline can be better

Screens are addictive to adults too, not just kids. We're in a more UMC neighborhood but parents are constantly on their phones at the playgrounds.

Funny how all the tech execs supposedly send their kids to schools with minimal screen use and don't give them smartphones. They know the technology their companies built, market to kids, and profit off of is highly addictive and toxic. This isn't a problem personal-responsibility is going to solve, there needs to be a societal shift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

Is this why screens are used so much at school too? Because teachers don't have to interact with them as much? It's not about "preparing them for the technology of the future" like they tell us?

It’s exactly why. Teachers can’t control their classrooms because kids don’t know how to behavior or communicate. Teachers give up and give them screens. Then they go check their phones while kids are doing blookit or some other dumb “educational” game

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

If that were true, all schools would have this problem. But, it's not across all schools. Just the one too terrified to actually discipline or have consequences.

It’s across all public schools, especially ones where parents are less educated and lower income. The screens are more likely to be always on for those kids and for their parents too. But agree that school discipline can be better

Screens are addictive to adults too, not just kids. We're in a more UMC neighborhood but parents are constantly on their phones at the playgrounds.

Funny how all the tech execs supposedly send their kids to schools with minimal screen use and don't give them smartphones. They know the technology their companies built, market to kids, and profit off of is highly addictive and toxic. This isn't a problem personal-responsibility is going to solve, there needs to be a societal shift.

Yeah, it is a problem everywhere. But most UMC families at least make sure their kids are involved in (several) activities outside of the house from an early age where they learn some interpersonal skills, how to behave in a group, following instructions, etc. Poor kids are home all day on their screens while their parents are on screens too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

Your daughter isn’t the only bewildered one. Why are you keeping her at that school- that’s what is bewildering. It isn’t going to get better. People have been telling you to move schools.

I know, right? Crazy I haven’t moved her already in the 24 hours since I posted this.

My question was, is this the norm of public schools these days? Some say yes, some say no. I’m contemplating putting in for a transfer for her for 4th grade, but the transfer window for next year doesn’t open till spring and transfers are never guaranteed. Working through options currently.

And as I mentioned, last year felt a lot better so I kind of thought they grew out of the crazy behavior… but guess not. Or DD just had a better teacher last year. Hard to know.

I don't know where you are and what kind of school options there are, but I think you need to hit up your local listserv now and solicit feedback from other parents on those options. I've been in my kids' school many times and yes, it is more chaotic than I remember. There always seem to be 1-2 kids each year that cause a lot of trouble. But it doesn't seem to be near the level you describe. I was in my 2nd grader's class yesterday and the teacher is so good at classroom management, even when she had kids from other classes coming in for an activity. I know there is only so much the teachers and administration can do to discipline with the shift to restorative justice but good leadership does make a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

If that were true, all schools would have this problem. But, it's not across all schools. Just the one too terrified to actually discipline or have consequences.

It’s across all public schools, especially ones where parents are less educated and lower income. The screens are more likely to be always on for those kids and for their parents too. But agree that school discipline can be better

Screens are addictive to adults too, not just kids. We're in a more UMC neighborhood but parents are constantly on their phones at the playgrounds.

Funny how all the tech execs supposedly send their kids to schools with minimal screen use and don't give them smartphones. They know the technology their companies built, market to kids, and profit off of is highly addictive and toxic. This isn't a problem personal-responsibility is going to solve, there needs to be a societal shift.

Yeah, it is a problem everywhere. But most UMC families at least make sure their kids are involved in (several) activities outside of the house from an early age where they learn some interpersonal skills, how to behave in a group, following instructions, etc. Poor kids are home all day on their screens while their parents are on screens too.

The poor kids in my district qualify for head start or free preK, which their parents use- they need the childcare because they work in person- not a telework job at home on screens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

If that were true, all schools would have this problem. But, it's not across all schools. Just the one too terrified to actually discipline or have consequences.

It’s across all public schools, especially ones where parents are less educated and lower income. The screens are more likely to be always on for those kids and for their parents too. But agree that school discipline can be better

Screens are addictive to adults too, not just kids. We're in a more UMC neighborhood but parents are constantly on their phones at the playgrounds.

Funny how all the tech execs supposedly send their kids to schools with minimal screen use and don't give them smartphones. They know the technology their companies built, market to kids, and profit off of is highly addictive and toxic. This isn't a problem personal-responsibility is going to solve, there needs to be a societal shift.

Yeah, it is a problem everywhere. But most UMC families at least make sure their kids are involved in (several) activities outside of the house from an early age where they learn some interpersonal skills, how to behave in a group, following instructions, etc. Poor kids are home all day on their screens while their parents are on screens too.

The poor kids in my district qualify for head start or free preK, which their parents use- they need the childcare because they work in person- not a telework job at home on screens.

And the minute the kid is home from head start, they are given a screen or the TV is turned on until bedtime.