Behavior in DD's school/grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here: most kids lack good families to raise them…this is the result.

So are millennial/Gen-X parents just really poor parents compared to their boomer parents? Is that really what it comes down to? I just don't recall my friends parents being super-involved in the 80s either, there were lots of latchkey kids. But the vast majority weren't going apesh-t at school.

I've heard from multiple retired teachers how profound the change in behavior was once schools moved away from discipline to responsive classroom/restorative justice approaches. How they used to be able to call the parent, send them to the principal's office, give detention/suspensions, etc. and now they can't and the kids know there are no real consequences for terrible behavior. Add in the rise of permissive parenting, COVID, etc. and this is what you get.

But no, OP, this isn't normal. My DC had a bad year one year that was the combination of a few kids that fed off of each other, and a really weak teacher. I really regret not putting my foot down and getting her moved to a different classroom because all of the supports and plans they offered HER when I complained didn't help when she was still stuck in that chaotic environment for hours every day. But the big difference is that the admin made changes the following year, including letting go of the teacher, adding another class to the grade so the "problem" kids could all be separated, and getting those kids extra support.

For your daughter now, I'd have her moved to a different classroom. If it's still this out of control in December, they aren't going to get it under control. And since it's only December, she's got many more months of stress ahead of her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

[Anonymous]

It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

If that were true, all schools would have this problem. But, it's not across all schools. Just the one too terrified to actually discipline or have consequences.

[Anonymous]

My child is in third grade and when I visit the school, I am astonished at how well behaved and obedient the kids are. I would suggest considering a new class and/or school if possible.

[Anonymous]

I have the 3rd grade problem child, and maybe my experience would help give you some perspective. He went to private school K to 2nd because of covid. We wanted an in person experience and public didnt have it. He was diagnosed with adhd in K and the school was really not equipped to handle him. They tried. We tried. But it wasnt a good fit. He was the disruptive kid and as others have said private schools dont stand for it. He spent most of his time in the hallway or the principals office and his self esteem was totally shot. He wasnt counseled out but we knew he needed more support so switched to public. His class is definitely more chaotic than private school and yes he is part of the problem, but its not at the level OP describes. I would advise you to make a fuss to the school principal and also to consider private school. Even as the parent of a dysregulated kid I dont think you should put up with that environment. There are better options out there. Also, consider advocating for better special needs services in your area. There are many families struggling and looking for help and everyone will suffer until they get it. If you knew the amount of time and energy and money and effort i put in to helping my child be successful at school (and I know its still not up to most peoples standards and you think im a lazy parent and my child is "one of those") you might have a different perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s screens. Kids are getting way too much screen time bc their parents don’t really want to interact with them. Parents would rather be on their screens too.

Many kids don’t really know how to behave or appropriately intact with people-especially all day long- without a screen

If that were true, all schools would have this problem. But, it's not across all schools. Just the one too terrified to actually discipline or have consequences.

It’s across all public schools, especially ones where parents are less educated and lower income. The screens are more likely to be always on for those kids and for their parents too. But agree that school discipline can be better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have the 3rd grade problem child, and maybe my experience would help give you some perspective. He went to private school K to 2nd because of covid. We wanted an in person experience and public didnt have it. He was diagnosed with adhd in K and the school was really not equipped to handle him. They tried. We tried. But it wasnt a good fit. He was the disruptive kid and as others have said private schools dont stand for it. He spent most of his time in the hallway or the principals office and his self esteem was totally shot. He wasnt counseled out but we knew he needed more support so switched to public. His class is definitely more chaotic than private school and yes he is part of the problem, but its not at the level OP describes. I would advise you to make a fuss to the school principal and also to consider private school. Even as the parent of a dysregulated kid I dont think you should put up with that environment. There are better options out there. Also, consider advocating for better special needs services in your area. There are many families struggling and looking for help and everyone will suffer until they get it. If you knew the amount of time and energy and money and effort i put in to helping my child be successful at school (and I know its still not up to most peoples standards and you think im a lazy parent and my child is "one of those") you might have a different perspective.

You sound like a great mom. But majority of the kids acting out do just have lazy parents. Guarantee they don’t all have adhd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes you just get stuck with a really bad cohort and the terrible thing is that it lasts for six years in elementary school. Third grade in my school is particularly bad too. I definitely think it’s some lingering Covid effects.

I don’t buy Covid excuses. These third graders have been in school for over 2 years now

Exactly. If anything it's the PARENTS who were the most dysregulated during stay at home. That's why kids weren't properly parented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have the 3rd grade problem child, and maybe my experience would help give you some perspective. He went to private school K to 2nd because of covid. We wanted an in person experience and public didnt have it. He was diagnosed with adhd in K and the school was really not equipped to handle him. They tried. We tried. But it wasnt a good fit. He was the disruptive kid and as others have said private schools dont stand for it. He spent most of his time in the hallway or the principals office and his self esteem was totally shot. He wasnt counseled out but we knew he needed more support so switched to public. His class is definitely more chaotic than private school and yes he is part of the problem, but its not at the level OP describes. I would advise you to make a fuss to the school principal and also to consider private school. Even as the parent of a dysregulated kid I dont think you should put up with that environment. There are better options out there. Also, consider advocating for better special needs services in your area. There are many families struggling and looking for help and everyone will suffer until they get it. If you knew the amount of time and energy and money and effort i put in to helping my child be successful at school (and I know its still not up to most peoples standards and you think im a lazy parent and my child is "one of those") you might have a different perspective.

I hear you, OP. My kid is this way as well. The only + is the guidance counselor told me that anything my kid has done is not the worst thing they deal with at all.

[Anonymous]

OP, you describe what my DS's montessori school was like. I'm talking kids hitting the teacher, 2nd graders cursing each other out, the whole nine yards. It was a ZOO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

Your daughter isn’t the only bewildered one. Why are you keeping her at that school- that’s what is bewildering. It isn’t going to get better. People have been telling you to move schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in 3rd grade at a private religious school across the going from DC. While not every moment is quite as you describe it, u found myself nodding along at so many things you wrote. Many of my DD’s schoolmates (not her classmates) are rude, spoiled little sh-ts.

Her grade itself was extremely disregulated in 1st and 2nd grade and she suffered from both the chaos and the group punishments. She regularly lost an extra recess or a special Friday activity because the same kids would blow off consequences over and over and they wouldn’t earn their points for the week.

When I am at her school, I notice several things:

1) no individual punishment. Individual “consequences” are usually things like having to talk things through with a teacher or counselor. When we were kids, individual consequences started with sitting in the hallway and escalated to detention, the principles office, and calls home. Calls home for discipline are no longer a thing.

2) extreme lack of fine motor skills for age. The grade is divided into kids who would be considered competent when I was little who other kids now considered “artistic”, and kids who need a ton of OT. I think this is a Covid thing; they were hybrid that year in pre-k and then K.

3) kids don’t sit still. When we were little, there might be only one kid constantly hopping in and out of his seat and trying to go to the hallway, and he would be punished. Accomodation of different learning styles means that kids are allowed to wriggle and move and just walk away. I can’t volunteer in the classroom because the kids standing at their desks, leaning, wandering around, and just leaving makes me crazy. It’s visually exhausting and distracting.

Op here. YES to all of this. Especially the not sitting still. A small minority could sit there and do a simple craft. Most gave up the second they struggled and just walked off. Few sat at their desk to finish their snack as they were told.

The lack of individual consequences is so crazy. They are letting the behavior kids ruin the day to day or the well behaved kids. Alllllll I hear about is their scores at lunch and specials. And it’s the same kids acting up to get them bad scores. My DD even tried reasoning with these kids to get them to behave at least so others don’t get in trouble and of course she got nowhere.

This sounds like poor classroom management. Even a few out of control kids is one thing, but if only a "small minority" can sit and do their activity, then that means the teacher hasn't properly set expectations and doesn't have the skills to keep the classroom under control. Then they carry that behaviors into their specials and lunch. Your 8 year old shouldn't feel like she has to reason with them, she should know the teacher has it and the adult in the room is responsible. She's also feeling the lack of classroom management, but just isn't acting out.

When one teacher has these issues, it may just be the teacher but the OP mentioned that the class has behavior issues with the special area teachers too. Trust me. The students we have now are not the same kids we had when I first started teaching ten years ago. I had a kindergartener slap another student a few days ago. He came back from the office with the administrator and a donut. Lovely. Had that happened ten years ago, that kid would’ve been sent home and not allowed back unless a parent conference occurred.

Op here. All of this. Her 1st grade year was awful, constant evacuations. 2nd grade was better, but still not great. This year, she’s got one kid with an aide some of the time, but the kid is highly disruptive at all times. There’s another kid that has an anger problem and has turned the classroom upside down and has massive angry outbursts. There’s another kid that punched someone on the playground earlier in the day that I was there and he was there participating in the party. The group punishment really makes me angry… it’s not fair and it’s making good kids hate school. My daughter hates going to specials because she knows someone (or multiple someones) are going to act up and they will get a bad score and then get a consequence. She’s honestly so frustrated and just bewildered why most of the kids can’t just calm down and do what they’re told.

Your daughter isn’t the only bewildered one. Why are you keeping her at that school- that’s what is bewildering. It isn’t going to get better. People have been telling you to move schools.

I know, right? Crazy I haven’t moved her already in the 24 hours since I posted this.

My question was, is this the norm of public schools these days? Some say yes, some say no. I’m contemplating putting in for a transfer for her for 4th grade, but the transfer window for next year doesn’t open till spring and transfers are never guaranteed. Working through options currently.

And as I mentioned, last year felt a lot better so I kind of thought they grew out of the crazy behavior… but guess not. Or DD just had a better teacher last year. Hard to know.