Gaza War, Part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I think people are slowly becoming more aware of what they’re accidentally signing up for, now that Hamas has escalated this situation. Young people are having second thoughts. I think Hamas seriously miscalculated on 10/7. Burned a lot of sympathy.

I think it’s very much the opposite. I think the goodwill many had unquestioningly for Israel is forever gone.

Definitely forever gone. Even within my own circles- everyone has gone all in for Palestinian liberation and and are calling for an immediate ceasefire. All one needs to do is look at the protests around the world- and even the protests within this country over the past few weeks have been massive. Protesters took over Grand Central Station tonight. I’m sorry boomers, but the narrative has been changing for a while and it’s changing rapidly.

+1000
Same same same.
The people that have texted/DM’d and physically whispered about their disgust and helplessness of this situation and sympathy for Palestinians is real. No one feels like they can speak out.

Wait which is it? Mass protests or you think you can’t speak out?

Is it so hard for you to believe that there are people horrified with what Israel has been doing the last 2 weeks (and especially tonight!!) that also have mortgages and families and dont want to lose thier jobs or be called “anti semites” for having empathy for palestinian children being slaughtered by the thousands? Do you think the ones protesting are it?

I’m one of those people with a mortgage and a family who is heartbroken for all of the people who are caught up in this war. But I support the right of Israel to exist, as do most other Americans. That doesn’t change.

You neglected to mention that you also support the right of Palestinians to exist. Was that an honest oversight?

Of course I do. I would like Palestinians to have a government of their own that doesn’t want to anihilate isreal. I thought that went without saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Israel’s reckoning?

They’re so close to saying it out loud. Thing is, they don’t need to, people are figuring it out.

We def. need more thought crime prosecutions, so I guess I can get onboard with this plan.

So do we just Tommy gun the anti-semitic label around the forum, or how does this work?

Did you want to answer the question? Why so defensive.

Who needs answering the question? We can just accuse people of "thinking" something and we don't need the convenience of evidence, right? We can just utter those magical words that elicit a "F it, this is a waste of my time" from the thought offender, and from anyone sane enough to endure the minute-to-minute temper tantrums up in here.

You should probably get some sleep. You sound high.

I don't need an anti-semitic clockwatcher to set my bedtime, pal. Worry about yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I think people are slowly becoming more aware of what they’re accidentally signing up for, now that Hamas has escalated this situation. Young people are having second thoughts. I think Hamas seriously miscalculated on 10/7. Burned a lot of sympathy.

I think it’s very much the opposite. I think the goodwill many had unquestioningly for Israel is forever gone.

Definitely forever gone. Even within my own circles- everyone has gone all in for Palestinian liberation and and are calling for an immediate ceasefire. All one needs to do is look at the protests around the world- and even the protests within this country over the past few weeks have been massive. Protesters took over Grand Central Station tonight. I’m sorry boomers, but the narrative has been changing for a while and it’s changing rapidly.

So what end do you want?

I am a DP (I am the fast food bed rotting one) and I think it’s pretty clear that the two state solution is a sham at best. The only real solution is to make the Palestinians citizens of Israel, but Israel will not do that barring some miracle or catastrophe. So the status quo will remain, Israel will keep seizing the West Bank and create an open air prison for Palestinians there. And the people in Gaza that are left will live whatever tragic existence they can.

I agree this is probably correct. It’s all a gd tragedy. After all this, it’s a small ask of Israel and it will never happen.

Not quite small, as the demographics are such that it would make the government one run by Palestinians, who would then be able to treat the Jews however they wish. It would also embolden the region against Israeli Jews.

They could perhaps bargain their way to some sort of confederation where Israelis and Palestinians are all citizens but the two state solution is totally dead- how could Israel allow a Palestinian military on their border? In fact there is no more border in the West Bank, it looks like utter insanity. How could the West Bank and Gaza control their own airspace? These are all characteristics actual countries have that "Palestine" never can.

Confederation? How is that different than two states?

Like the US with federal and state governments. Although there would still be the problem, on the Israeli side, regarding electing a federal government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I think people are slowly becoming more aware of what they’re accidentally signing up for, now that Hamas has escalated this situation. Young people are having second thoughts. I think Hamas seriously miscalculated on 10/7. Burned a lot of sympathy.

I think it’s very much the opposite. I think the goodwill many had unquestioningly for Israel is forever gone.

Definitely forever gone. Even within my own circles- everyone has gone all in for Palestinian liberation and and are calling for an immediate ceasefire. All one needs to do is look at the protests around the world- and even the protests within this country over the past few weeks have been massive. Protesters took over Grand Central Station tonight. I’m sorry boomers, but the narrative has been changing for a while and it’s changing rapidly.

So what end do you want?

I am a DP (I am the fast food bed rotting one) and I think it’s pretty clear that the two state solution is a sham at best. The only real solution is to make the Palestinians citizens of Israel, but Israel will not do that barring some miracle or catastrophe. So the status quo will remain, Israel will keep seizing the West Bank and create an open air prison for Palestinians there. And the people in Gaza that are left will live whatever tragic existence they can.

I agree this is probably correct. It’s all a gd tragedy. After all this, it’s a small ask of Israel and it will never happen.

Not quite small, as the demographics are such that it would make the government one run by Palestinians, who would then be able to treat the Jews however they wish. It would also embolden the region against Israeli Jews.

They could perhaps bargain their way to some sort of confederation where Israelis and Palestinians are all citizens but the two state solution is totally dead- how could Israel allow a Palestinian military on their border? In fact there is no more border in the West Bank, it looks like utter insanity. How could the West Bank and Gaza control their own airspace? These are all characteristics actual countries have that "Palestine" never can.

Confederation? How is that different than two states?

Like the US with federal and state governments. Although there would still be the problem, on the Israeli side, regarding electing a federal government.

Doesn’t change the fact that Palestinians would run the federal government. Perhaps a problem if Hamas is still around, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I think people are slowly becoming more aware of what they’re accidentally signing up for, now that Hamas has escalated this situation. Young people are having second thoughts. I think Hamas seriously miscalculated on 10/7. Burned a lot of sympathy.

I think it’s very much the opposite. I think the goodwill many had unquestioningly for Israel is forever gone.

Definitely forever gone. Even within my own circles- everyone has gone all in for Palestinian liberation and and are calling for an immediate ceasefire. All one needs to do is look at the protests around the world- and even the protests within this country over the past few weeks have been massive. Protesters took over Grand Central Station tonight. I’m sorry boomers, but the narrative has been changing for a while and it’s changing rapidly.

+1000
Same same same.
The people that have texted/DM’d and physically whispered about their disgust and helplessness of this situation and sympathy for Palestinians is real. No one feels like they can speak out.

Wait which is it? Mass protests or you think you can’t speak out?

Is it so hard for you to believe that there are people horrified with what Israel has been doing the last 2 weeks (and especially tonight!!) that also have mortgages and families and dont want to lose thier jobs or be called “anti semites” for having empathy for palestinian children being slaughtered by the thousands? Do you think the ones protesting are it?

I’m one of those people with a mortgage and a family who is heartbroken for all of the people who are caught up in this war. But I support the right of Israel to exist, as do most other Americans. That doesn’t change.

You neglected to mention that you also support the right of Palestinians to exist. Was that an honest oversight?

Of course I do. I would like Palestinians to have a government of their own that doesn’t want to anihilate isreal. I thought that went without saying.

Ok, so how do you propose getting rid of Hamas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for all these posters to give us their alternative plans about how the one stage solution will work.

Here is how it will work:

Israelis will be citizens of Israel.
Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza will be citizens of Israel.

The end.

Very complex, no?

I’ll give you the same answer I gave the other poster who suggested this:

The demographics are such that it would make the government one run by Palestinians, who would then be able to treat the Jews however they wish. It would also embolden the region against Israeli Jews.

So, if you consider democracy and human rights to be a problem, Israel has to give up the land. Big time. Gaza- there's an argument there that Israel doesn't "control" it (I don't buy that argument, personally). But, you can't take the West Bank and not take the people. There's a word for having a population under your control and not giving them their full democratic rights- apartheid.

But if Israel completely gives up the West Bank and Gaza, it still has to contend with the prospect of an actual Palestinian state, one with a military, control of its airspace, water ports, etc. This is ALSO problematic for the EXACT SAME reasons you articulate- contending with an angry Palestinian population.

It's definitely a problem... for Israel. Do you know whose problem it isn't? Me. The American taxpayer. The American taxpayer is being asked to have an interest in this unending mess, and I think... our patience is wearing thin. My patience is wearing thin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I think people are slowly becoming more aware of what they’re accidentally signing up for, now that Hamas has escalated this situation. Young people are having second thoughts. I think Hamas seriously miscalculated on 10/7. Burned a lot of sympathy.

I think it’s very much the opposite. I think the goodwill many had unquestioningly for Israel is forever gone.

Definitely forever gone. Even within my own circles- everyone has gone all in for Palestinian liberation and and are calling for an immediate ceasefire. All one needs to do is look at the protests around the world- and even the protests within this country over the past few weeks have been massive. Protesters took over Grand Central Station tonight. I’m sorry boomers, but the narrative has been changing for a while and it’s changing rapidly.

+1000
Same same same.
The people that have texted/DM’d and physically whispered about their disgust and helplessness of this situation and sympathy for Palestinians is real. No one feels like they can speak out.

Wait which is it? Mass protests or you think you can’t speak out?

Is it so hard for you to believe that there are people horrified with what Israel has been doing the last 2 weeks (and especially tonight!!) that also have mortgages and families and dont want to lose thier jobs or be called “anti semites” for having empathy for palestinian children being slaughtered by the thousands? Do you think the ones protesting are it?

I’m one of those people with a mortgage and a family who is heartbroken for all of the people who are caught up in this war. But I support the right of Israel to exist, as do most other Americans. That doesn’t change.

You neglected to mention that you also support the right of Palestinians to exist. Was that an honest oversight?

Of course I do. I would like Palestinians to have a government of their own that doesn’t want to anihilate isreal. I thought that went without saying.

Ok, so how do you propose getting rid of Hamas?

There’s a lot going on in the region that I’m not sure you’re really seeing. The neighbors don’t like Hamas, they’re willing to help make some changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for all these posters to give us their alternative plans about how the one stage solution will work.

Here is how it will work:

Israelis will be citizens of Israel.
Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza will be citizens of Israel.

The end.

Very complex, no?

I’ll give you the same answer I gave the other poster who suggested this:

The demographics are such that it would make the government one run by Palestinians, who would then be able to treat the Jews however they wish. It would also embolden the region against Israeli Jews.

So, if you consider democracy and human rights to be a problem, Israel has to give up the land. Big time. Gaza- there's an argument there that Israel doesn't "control" it (I don't buy that argument, personally). But, you can't take the West Bank and not take the people. There's a word for having a population under your control and not giving them their full democratic rights- apartheid.

But if Israel completely gives up the West Bank and Gaza, it still has to contend with the prospect of an actual Palestinian state, one with a military, control of its airspace, water ports, etc. This is ALSO problematic for the EXACT SAME reasons you articulate- contending with an angry Palestinian population.

It's definitely a problem... for Israel. Do you know whose problem it isn't? Me. The American taxpayer. The American taxpayer is being asked to have an interest in this unending mess, and I think... our patience is wearing thin. My patience is wearing thin.

This all day. Every day.

[Anonymous]

No pun intended but Israel has tunnel vision.

They can’t see past the Gaza Strip.

The West Bank and Israel also have Hamas . The captives said Hamas spoke Hebrew to them and some were part of the work permit program to Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I think people are slowly becoming more aware of what they’re accidentally signing up for, now that Hamas has escalated this situation. Young people are having second thoughts. I think Hamas seriously miscalculated on 10/7. Burned a lot of sympathy.

I think it’s very much the opposite. I think the goodwill many had unquestioningly for Israel is forever gone.

Definitely forever gone. Even within my own circles- everyone has gone all in for Palestinian liberation and and are calling for an immediate ceasefire. All one needs to do is look at the protests around the world- and even the protests within this country over the past few weeks have been massive. Protesters took over Grand Central Station tonight. I’m sorry boomers, but the narrative has been changing for a while and it’s changing rapidly.

+1000
Same same same.
The people that have texted/DM’d and physically whispered about their disgust and helplessness of this situation and sympathy for Palestinians is real. No one feels like they can speak out.

Wait which is it? Mass protests or you think you can’t speak out?

Is it so hard for you to believe that there are people horrified with what Israel has been doing the last 2 weeks (and especially tonight!!) that also have mortgages and families and dont want to lose thier jobs or be called “anti semites” for having empathy for palestinian children being slaughtered by the thousands? Do you think the ones protesting are it?

I’m one of those people with a mortgage and a family who is heartbroken for all of the people who are caught up in this war. But I support the right of Israel to exist, as do most other Americans. That doesn’t change.

You neglected to mention that you also support the right of Palestinians to exist. Was that an honest oversight?

Of course I do. I would like Palestinians to have a government of their own that doesn’t want to anihilate isreal. I thought that went without saying.

That feels a little like Blue Lives Matter to me since I don't think anyone credible would suggest that of these two groups, the one much further down the path of self-governance is the side needing of support. I don't disagree with your proposed solutions, though I imagine it will be difficult to bring to fruition. Nevertheless, thank you for clarifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is Israel’s reckoning?

I think Israel's "reckoning" is when American taxpayers run out of patience for our undying fealty to Israel and our sponsorship of its war crimes. America is more diverse now, there are more Arabs and Muslims and Palestinians in the country than ever before and it's not a silent group, it's becoming more normal to have an actual opinion on the conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Israel’s reckoning?

I think Israel's "reckoning" is when American taxpayers run out of patience for our undying fealty to Israel and our sponsorship of its war crimes. America is more diverse now, there are more Arabs and Muslims and Palestinians in the country than ever before and it's not a silent group, it's becoming more normal to have an actual opinion on the conflict.

Ding ding ding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Israel’s reckoning?

I think Israel's "reckoning" is when American taxpayers run out of patience for our undying fealty to Israel and our sponsorship of its war crimes. America is more diverse now, there are more Arabs and Muslims and Palestinians in the country than ever before and it's not a silent group, it's becoming more normal to have an actual opinion on the conflict.

That didn’t answer my question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m still waiting for all these posters to give us their alternative plans about how the one stage solution will work.

Here is how it will work:

Israelis will be citizens of Israel.
Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza will be citizens of Israel.

The end.

Very complex, no?

I’ll give you the same answer I gave the other poster who suggested this:

The demographics are such that it would make the government one run by Palestinians, who would then be able to treat the Jews however they wish. It would also embolden the region against Israeli Jews.

To translate: That's unacceptable for Israel.

Which brings us back to the 2 state solution because neither Israelis or Palestinians are going somewhere else.

There literally is no other option.

Do you understand why that’s unacceptable, especially when Hamas is in around?

I do. Do you understand that expelling the Palestinians is even more unacceptable?

It sucks for Israel but they are the ones that are going to have to figure out a way to make things work because there are no other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No pun intended but Israel has tunnel vision.

They can’t see past the Gaza Strip.

The West Bank and Israel also have Hamas . The captives said Hamas spoke Hebrew to them and some were part of the work permit program to Israel.

They already blew up a house and a mosque (so much for freedom to worship!) in the West Bank, and settlers are shooting unarmed Palestinians at point blank range, I'm sure Israel would be happy to raze the West Bank as well.