Nope, Vincent Gray's Not Arrogant At All

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most pundits, at least at this point, consider this race to be a toss up. This is an opinion I share. If you wish to believe that, as of today, Gray has a 70% lead, you are free to hold that opinion.
I do not think that you will find many (any?) objective people who will agree with you that Gray has a 70% lead.

And there's scientific, and there's scientific. Surely you are not claiming that these city polls are nearly as accurate as the ones conducted by major networks for Presidential polls. Or maybe you are.

And, despite the protestations of another poster, I do believe that a 70% lead for Gray, in and of itself, casts doubt on the legitimacy of that poll. Look at the populations of Wards 2 & 3 alone. Then tell me how Gray gets 70% of the city.

Clarus is a national recognized independent polling firm.
The Washington Post DOES do polling for presidential polls, usually teamed up with a network. Their independent polling operation is considered one of the best conducted by the media.
So, yes -- I AM claiming that they are accurate, scientific polls.
Only someone with no understanding of polling or politics would claim otherwise.
Again, just because you don't like the results, doesn't mean you should claim they are not scientific or credible polls.
They are, to date, 2 of the only 3 scientific polls conducted in this race.
And they show Gray with a lead.

[Anonymous]

So, what you're saying is, you're just going to make unsubstantiated claims and demand that we do the work to provide evidence? Fat chance. Almost as fat a chance as YOUR BOY (since it's clear you have made up your mind) has at winning, given that all the EVIDENCE supports him having a huge lead.

There are plenty of good reasons to support Fenty. And there are legitimate questions about the accuracy and predictive value of any poll. But what is just foolish is the consistent refrain from Fenty supports (both here and elsewhere) that polls are useless unless they show him in the lead; that any poll showing him trailing is actually a GOOD thing; and that the race is a dead heat when most polls show Gray with a strong lead.

It's facts vs fiction and some people actually think fiction is right.

[Anonymous]

Look, you're getting way too upset about this. I've said two things: 1. The polls you are relying upon are as outdated as your candidate, and 2. They are unrepresentative. I do not have to do your research for you and post it here to convince you of anything. I've done my research of the Ward's populations and sizes -- it took awhile and includes many cites and I'm disinclined to perform it again and post links here. The information is public and readily available. Once (if) you look at it, you will see why Gray cannot possibly win with 70% of the vote. Especially since, at this point, he has a small lead in Ward 1.

Your poll is worth the toilet paper I just wiped my ass with after my morning shit. That's what I'm saying.

[Anonymous]

PP, you must be male.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, you're getting way too upset about this. I've said two things: 1. The polls you are relying upon are as outdated as your candidate, and 2. They are unrepresentative. I do not have to do your research for you and post it here to convince you of anything. I've done my research of the Ward's populations and sizes -- it took awhile and includes many cites and I'm disinclined to perform it again and post links here. The information is public and readily available. Once (if) you look at it, you will see why Gray cannot possibly win with 70% of the vote. Especially since, at this point, he has a small lead in Ward 1.

Your poll is worth the toilet paper I just wiped my ass with after my morning shit. That's what I'm saying.

Again -- you're proving that you have no idea what you're talking about.
No one is saying Gray will win 70% of the vote!
What I'm saying is that the scientific polls show him winning. And if you think that the Washington Post poll, conducted by one of the most respected pollsters in the country, is not representative, then you are truly delusional.

[Anonymous]

What I'm saying is that they are too dated to be representative of anything now. And that the 4:1 lead given to Gray in one of the dated polls you cite does not seem believable to me, given the demographics of the city. 1000 people of the most activist voters came out for that poll. I don't believe it to be accurate.

And yes, I mad up my mind long ago to vote for Fenty. Unlike you, I feel no need to pretend otherwise. I mean, do you really expect me to believe that you're up typing long into the night about how all the polls show Gray with such a huge lead, and Fenty's such an arrogant bastard, and on and on and on because you're undecided? If so, you think I am much dumber than you've yet to express.

Why you feel the need to use racially charged language when referring to the darker-skinned candidate is quite odd. No one is "my boy". I don't talk that way. I guess you do.

Isn't this all a bit silly? Arguing about polls and who we think will win? Based on some "scientific" polls that were taken ages ago, and some newer ones that are less "scientific"? Life is marching forward as we debate the meaning of dated polls. Early polls are rarely predictive of the outcome.

There's a Ward 2 straw poll tomorrow night that looks like it will be widely attended and given much press. Why don't we wait and see what comes of that?

None one here is going to be convinced of the others' point of view. It doesn't seem to me very likely that many likely voters are coming here to get information on which they are going to make their decisions. If they do, as soon as they see language such as "your boy" when referencing a black man, they aren't likely to continue reading.

So I just don't see the point in continuing with this. We can keep calling each other names and you can continue spewing racial epithets, but I'm no longer enjoying it, and I don't think it's productive. Minds are out there (not in here) being influenced as we sit here and try to spin the mindset of people 2 months ago. I'm sorry, but I prefer to live in the moment.

[Anonymous]

I think you are really misunderstanding my use of "your boy", which was no way racially motivated. I'm a male myself and it is common vernacular, at least among men, to refer to a guy that one is supporting as "someone's boy". I realize the other connotation this carries, but this is common language, even in the black community. For instance, if you are a Yankee fan, Derek Jeter is likely your boy. If your a Nats fan, I'd refer to Strasburg as your boy. You are a Fenty fan, so he is your boy. It is in no way meant to be demeaning and is common language among younger males.

Trust me, I am the first person to call out racialized language. This obviously does not make me immune from my own mis-steps, but I can assure you that this usage is both common and completely non-offensive. I recognize tone doesn't come across well online and will be mindful of that going forward.

That being said, you are clearly insisting on keeping your head buried deep in the sand. You claim to have arguments/evidence to refute our facts, yet insist that it is our job to find it. BS. The stats support that Gray is strongly in the lead. This is far from a guarantee that he will win, but if the smart money, currently, is on Gray.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I'm saying is that they are too dated to be representative of anything now. And that the 4:1 lead given to Gray in one of the dated polls you cite does not seem believable to me, given the demographics of the city. 1000 people of the most activist voters came out for that poll. I don't believe it to be accurate.

And yes, I mad up my mind long ago to vote for Fenty. Unlike you, I feel no need to pretend otherwise. I mean, do you really expect me to believe that you're up typing long into the night about how all the polls show Gray with such a huge lead, and Fenty's such an arrogant bastard, and on and on and on because you're undecided? If so, you think I am much dumber than you've yet to express.

Why you feel the need to use racially charged language when referring to the darker-skinned candidate is quite odd. No one is "my boy". I don't talk that way. I guess you do.

Isn't this all a bit silly? Arguing about polls and who we think will win? Based on some "scientific" polls that were taken ages ago, and some newer ones that are less "scientific"? Life is marching forward as we debate the meaning of dated polls. Early polls are rarely predictive of the outcome.

There's a Ward 2 straw poll tomorrow night that looks like it will be widely attended and given much press. Why don't we wait and see what comes of that?

None one here is going to be convinced of the others' point of view. It doesn't seem to me very likely that many likely voters are coming here to get information on which they are going to make their decisions. If they do, as soon as they see language such as "your boy" when referencing a black man, they aren't likely to continue reading.

So I just don't see the point in continuing with this. We can keep calling each other names and you can continue spewing racial epithets, but I'm no longer enjoying it, and I don't think it's productive. Minds are out there (not in here) being influenced as we sit here and try to spin the mindset of people 2 months ago. I'm sorry, but I prefer to live in the moment.

I never once used a racial epithet. Maybe someone else did, but I didn't. You're the one using foul offensive language.
I also never once said I was undecided. I'm a Gray supporter. Proud of it.
I expect Fenty to win the Ward 2 straw poll, but who knows. I also expected him to win the Ward 3 straw poll, and Gray out organized him there. So who knows.
Frankly, none of these straw polls (DC city-wide, the Blade, any of the ward specific ones) mean anything.
The scientific polls are the only ones that are representative and truly predictive. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a recent one, so the only real data we have is dated. I'll be very curious to see what the next one shows -- although I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't come out until Labor Day -- that's when the Post usually does its final pre-election poll.
We can continue our conversation then -- unless, of course, Gray is leading and you decide to diminish that poll as well.

[Anonymous]

I'm not interested in debating polls. I will only reiterate one thing: Referring to the darker candidate in this political race as "your boy" is racist language. Rationalize it all you want. A simple apology would have been one thing. But to try to justify it is just disgusting.

[Anonymous]

10:16, I am an AA and we as a race really do not need you feigning to understand and fight our battles. Anyone who can read and comprehend, understood very well what "your boy" meant. He is "your boy". You should simply own up to it and stop attempting to derail the conversations by throwing in unfounded racial accusations. None were thrown. Catania is "my boy", and until he gets off the pot, Gray is my boy in this election. BTW--The AA is African American aka Black American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not interested in debating polls. I will only reiterate one thing: Referring to the darker candidate in this political race as "your boy" is racist language. Rationalize it all you want. A simple apology would have been one thing. But to try to justify it is just disgusting.

Who should I be apologizing to, precisely? If I offended anyone, I am more than happy to apologize. But I don't see anyone needing an apology, and I think my explanation and that of the PP demonstrate that it is YOU who is ignorant of how this language is typically used. I'm pretty sure most of us are familiar with the quote from "Old School" in which Will Ferrel's character yells out, "You're my boy, Blue!" to another (white) character. I recognize how the term "boy" can be misconstrued, but you are really jumping to conclusion and reaching when offered evidence that your interpretation is not accurate.

Also, you seemed very intent to debate polls up until the point that you ran out of arguments to contend with facts.

[Anonymous]

I ran out of motivation to argue about polls taken more than two months ago. Every article I've read in the Post lately calls this race close. Are they all bonkers, too? Delusional deniers of Gray's huge lead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you are really misunderstanding my use of "your boy", which was no way racially motivated. I'm a male myself and it is common vernacular, at least among men, to refer to a guy that one is supporting as "someone's boy". I realize the other connotation this carries, but this is common language, even in the black community. For instance, if you are a Yankee fan, Derek Jeter is likely your boy. If your a Nats fan, I'd refer to Strasburg as your boy. You are a Fenty fan, so he is your boy. It is in no way meant to be demeaning and is common language among younger males.

Trust me, I am the first person to call out racialized language. This obviously does not make me immune from my own mis-steps, but I can assure you that this usage is both common and completely non-offensive. I recognize tone doesn't come across well online and will be mindful of that going forward.

That being said, you are clearly insisting on keeping your head buried deep in the sand. You claim to have arguments/evidence to refute our facts, yet insist that it is our job to find it. BS. The stats support that Gray is strongly in the lead. This is far from a guarantee that he will win, but if the smart money, currently, is on Gray.

Thank you for the education in linguistics. I think I've got it now: My boy's better than your boy. You get that straight, boy, you hear me?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:I ran out of motivation to argue about polls taken more than two months ago. Every article I've read in the Post lately calls this race close. Are they all bonkers, too? Delusional deniers of Gray's huge lead?

I have no idea who is ahead and, frankly, I don't care. But, I wouldn't trust anything the Post has to say with respect to Fenty. The Post is so far up Fenty's ass it should be renamed The Washington Suppository.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not interested in debating polls. I will only reiterate one thing: Referring to the darker candidate in this political race as "your boy" is racist language. Rationalize it all you want. A simple apology would have been one thing. But to try to justify it is just disgusting.

That wasn't me who said that. Someone else. I agree with you.