Psychologist recommends bathroom time out as punishment. Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

That's not how ASD/ADHD works.

OP -- read The Explosive Child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you ever watched What Not to Wear? They give the person some rules and send them off. The rules give them a framework and a new way forward.

Your psychologist has given you 3 new rules, a new way forward. You can implement the rules in various ways but they should be in line with the rules.

"Give child 3 rules: 1) obedience, 2) respect, 3) no arguing. Parents have three rules when responding to child's breaking of these rules (child not told this but parents know): 1) be consistent, 2) no second chances, and 3) no warning before consequences."

Those are reasonable rules. They're about consistency, predictability, and reliability. For everyone. Stability and predictability is great for kids. They will test rules and boundaries, that's what they do, but they are a lot happier and more confident when they know where the rules and boundaries are.

This is the definition of authoritarian parenting, which studies have shown lead to poor outcomes.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/authoritarian-parenting

Children reared by authoritarian families tend to depend more heavily on their parents (especially girls), be more submissive, less socially adept, less confident, less intellectually curious, and less committed to achievement in comparison with children reared in authoritative homes. Furthermore, children reared by authoritarian parents often exhibit hostility and shyness toward peers and show higher levels of aggression (Casas et al., 2006).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK568743/

"Furthermore, this parenting style can result in children who have higher levels of aggression but may also be shy, socially inept, and unable to make their own decisions.[1] This aggression can remain uncontrolled as they have difficulty managing anger as they were not provided with proper guidance. They have poor self-esteem, which further reinforces their inability to make decisions.[2] Strict parental rules and punishments often influence the child to rebel against authority figures as they grow older."

No, it's authoritative. As opposed to OP's current permissive parenting that is not working.

Wrong. in the bolded above the rules are obedience and no arguing. That is the definition of authoritarian.

Also wanted to add there is no evidence the OP is a permissive parent.

If her child is having difficulties it may very well be ADHD or something else, and have nothing to do with her parenting style.

Not everything is Mom's fault.

Establishing rules and consequences is not the definition of authoritarian parenting. The difference between that and authoritative parenting is a lack of warmth and parental responsivess. The way to have successful kids is to have high standards but also parent with warmth and love. You can have both of those things at the same time. Allowing your child to disobey rules that you presumably created for their own good does no one any favors — not them, whom the rules were designed to benefit, and not their teachers, who are stuck dealing with disrespectful kids all day.

OP here. It's not quite so simple. The warmth and responsiveness that is inherent to authoritative parenting involves being flexible, listening, talking...When the psychologist says "no arguing" and says she thinks discussion and reasoning with children is not useful, this is not authoritative parenting. Locking a child in the bathroom is a punishment, and doing so for lack of obedience and arguing, no second chances (inflexibility) are all more consistent with authoritarianism.

Authoritative parents have high expectations but are less focused on punishments and absolute control over their children. Obedience connotes control--do it because I said so, rather than because it's something reasonable that is good for you, the family, etc.

DC would be upset to be sent to their room because DC would know they hadn't met expectations that they themselves are on board with, and they want to make us happy and proud, not disappointed.

Okay. But if you wonder why your kid argues with you and doesn't do what you ask, reread this response. It's right there.

I don't get your point. What part is encouraging argumentativeness? And are you advocating for authoritarian parenting then?

Btw, it's not the case that DC always argues/doesn't listen. As I said, we're not permissive and the behavioral stuff isn't out of the ordinary. I just want to handle what comes up more effectively and thoughtfully than how I do at times. Some of this is that I recognize my limitations and am prone to getting impatient and exasperated. I don't think authoritarian parenting is the only or even best way to get compliance and to raise a well-adjusted and successful human.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of arguing. They are people too. And sometimes parents are wrong. I argued and defied my authoritarian parent. I was not a nightmare for teachers, except the ones who didn't respect kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

Oh god please. DC swats at us or yells out of frustration once in a while, usually when tired (didn't sleep well, sick, etc), and immediately feels bad about losing temper. We don't sit down and have an extended discussion with DC when that happens. We immediately say no hitting and met out a consequence that is commensurate to the situation.

The point of the post was not to solicit your sanctimonious advice. I just wanted to know how the parenting advice struck people and basically have seen what I expected--some think it's cruel and some think it's reasonable, and others are creating strawmen to look for fights on an anonymous forum. Note, the psychologist DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DC AND WHAT THE ISSUES WERE WHEN SHE GAVE THE ADVICE. This is her standard intervention for parenting issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

That's not how ASD/ADHD works.

OP -- read The Explosive Child.

It certainly is. But only if you do not tolerate hitting.

OP tolerates hitting, so her DC will continue swatting her when dysregulated. No biggie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

That's not how ASD/ADHD works.

OP -- read The Explosive Child.

It certainly is. But only if you do not tolerate hitting.

OP tolerates hitting, so her DC will continue swatting her when dysregulated. No biggie.

Troll much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

That's not how ASD/ADHD works.

OP -- read The Explosive Child.

It certainly is. But only if you do not tolerate hitting.

OP tolerates hitting, so her DC will continue swatting her when dysregulated. No biggie.

You are a know-nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

That's not how ASD/ADHD works.

OP -- read The Explosive Child.

I have a child with ADHD and I do feel like this is often true too, albiet often it is not true and a different approach is needed.

But yes, massive amounts of repetition and consistency can help with some behavioral issues, especially issues like hitting ime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

Oh god please. DC swats at us or yells out of frustration once in a while, usually when tired (didn't sleep well, sick, etc), and immediately feels bad about losing temper. We don't sit down and have an extended discussion with DC when that happens. We immediately say no hitting and met out a consequence that is commensurate to the situation.

The point of the post was not to solicit your sanctimonious advice. I just wanted to know how the parenting advice struck people and basically have seen what I expected--some think it's cruel and some think it's reasonable, and others are creating strawmen to look for fights on an anonymous forum. Note, the psychologist DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DC AND WHAT THE ISSUES WERE WHEN SHE GAVE THE ADVICE. This is her standard intervention for parenting issues.

You didn’t post for advice, you posted because you wanted someone to validate your opinion.

Letting your kid argue with every rule you establish will exhaust you as a parent in to time. That’s not “authoritative parenting,” that’s insanity. Parents make rules because they have maturity and wisdom that children lack.

[Anonymous]

The most messed up part of the advice is not telling the kid the consequences in advance and expecting blind, presumably instant obedience. Sure, you don’t want your kid arguing over every little thing, but teaching a child to blindly obey authority is really dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most messed up part of the advice is not telling the kid the consequences in advance and expecting blind, presumably instant obedience. Sure, you don’t want your kid arguing over every little thing, but teaching a child to blindly obey authority is really dangerous.

The kid already knows there's a rule about hitting. It's not a surprise or gotcha or blind obedience. It's "Don't hit".

[Anonymous]

Hit him back next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly what are the behavior issues?

DC is relatively quick to get emotional about things not going DC's way and sometimes lashes out (yelling or hitting at us, which is especially likely when DC is tired), and sometimes doesn't listen when asked to do something, and other run of the mill stuff. I lose my patience and raise my voice more than I care to admit and more than I think is effective. I also feel very reactive to situations at times, for example, giving threats and repeated warnings out of frustration. So it's not anything too extreme (and DC is very well behaved at school, actually), but I would like to feel like I have a better handle on things in those situations and for me and DH to be on the same page about how to appropriately respond (e.g., what sorts of consequences will their be for not listening, yelling, hitting etc.). DH is a great dad but he shoots from the hip when it comes to handling DC and I think it would help to have someone external give us guidance that we can generally keep in mind and follow.

I am not completely disregarding what the psychologist said but I will modify to suit a more authoritative style. I will also seek out someone else whose values are more consistent with ours and have that person talk with both me and DH because I really think it will help reduce some of the parenting stress and could also improve the relationships between each of us.

OP, your DC is yelling at you and hitting you at 6 years old? That's not minor and I agree with the psychologist. "Don't hit" and sent to bedroom/wherever immediately. Every time, no questions, no discussion, no arguing, no back talk. No second chances, no counting. Just immediate consequence. Children with ADHD (or anxiety or ASD) can learn this just like NT kids, it just takes more repetition and more consistency.

Hitting doesn't need a conversation. It needs to stop.

And you should also consider a formal evaluation.

Oh god please. DC swats at us or yells out of frustration once in a while, usually when tired (didn't sleep well, sick, etc), and immediately feels bad about losing temper. We don't sit down and have an extended discussion with DC when that happens. We immediately say no hitting and met out a consequence that is commensurate to the situation.

The point of the post was not to solicit your sanctimonious advice. I just wanted to know how the parenting advice struck people and basically have seen what I expected--some think it's cruel and some think it's reasonable, and others are creating strawmen to look for fights on an anonymous forum. Note, the psychologist DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT DC AND WHAT THE ISSUES WERE WHEN SHE GAVE THE ADVICE. This is her standard intervention for parenting issues.

You didn’t post for advice, you posted because you wanted someone to validate your opinion.

Letting your kid argue with every rule you establish will exhaust you as a parent in to time. That’s not “authoritative parenting,” that’s insanity. Parents make rules because they have maturity and wisdom that children lack.

Give it a rest with your condescending attitude and lecturing, and presumptions about what my child is like and what I'm like. If that's what you're like as a parent, I feel sorry for your kids.

I don't need validation from an anonymous forum. I genuinely posted to see what people think about the advice, whether they agree or not with it. I know what I think but I honestly don't care if others agree. And fwiw, I do not allow my child to argue with me endlessly--you made that up in your head to feel better than others. There is something in between the extremes that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most messed up part of the advice is not telling the kid the consequences in advance and expecting blind, presumably instant obedience. Sure, you don’t want your kid arguing over every little thing, but teaching a child to blindly obey authority is really dangerous.

The kid already knows there's a rule about hitting. It's not a surprise or gotcha or blind obedience. It's "Don't hit".

OP here. I do agree with this and have been implementing it to good effect (as I noted, the advice at face value could be authoritarian but with tweaks could be authoritative, which I prefer). I think it's more authoritarian when the rules are unpredictable/unknown, punishment unexpected, and punishment incommensurate with the rule violation.

We've always had a "don't hit; go to your room/think about it" policy. Never had discussions about it, despite what the troll above was suggesting. And DC rarely hits. The only thing that has changed is for other things that are less egregious we are less likely to provide warnings now, provided DC knows well what the rule is. It's working well.