APS and Grading for Equity - Discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

I’m a Madison parent trying to find a school where SBG is successful. Instead, all I find is that it’s not working and the reason is always “better implementation is needed.” I think it may be so confusing that it’s impossible to implement consistently. This article of a school in MA describes similar situation to what we have at Madison right now and the administration’s response is the same - improvements planned but no mention of going back to what worked well before. There is a link to the video of SB meeting in the article.

https://theswellesleyreport.com/2023/03/wellesley-high-parents-pan-standards-based-grading-school-leaders-say-improvements-planned/

Lucy calkins also always needed “better implementation”. APS learned nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am moving my son from Catholic school back to public for more flexible grading polices and extended homework time at APS. It is difficult for him currently complete homework and study some nights due to getting out from school extended day at 5 or 6 PM and then sports practices some evenings. (Yes, we think 11-year-olds should be allowed to play sports on several school weeknights nights after sitting indoors for most of the day, 8-6).

Catholic and private schools have rigid grading polices, points lost for late homework and NO test make-up or retake polices. One poor test grade and a missing homework assignment or 2 can bring a good student down to a "D" grade! And teachers do not care about outside commitments therefore will not give parents homework in advance for weekends.

I think a reasonable approach of a few extra days to turn in assignments or occasional test retakes to help boost a grade (but not totally wipe it out) is a good compromise.

You should be teaching your kid to do homework in extended day to earn the right to go to sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

I’m a Madison parent trying to find a school where SBG is successful. Instead, all I find is that it’s not working and the reason is always “better implementation is needed.” I think it may be so confusing that it’s impossible to implement consistently. This article of a school in MA describes similar situation to what we have at Madison right now and the administration’s response is the same - improvements planned but no mention of going back to what worked well before. There is a link to the video of SB meeting in the article.

https://theswellesleyreport.com/2023/03/wellesley-high-parents-pan-standards-based-grading-school-leaders-say-improvements-planned/

Why doesn't anyone consider running both systems simultaneously, side-by-side, until (if and when) the SBG IS implemented better? Tricky, I know; but better than a lousy, ineffective system indefinitely while improvements continue to be pending.

It’s the half credit for not doing anything that I can’t get past. How about if we implement that never? I’d love half l my salary if I don’t come in, but I don’t think the works works like that.

[Anonymous]

It’s not just a problem with implementation or communication. As we’ve experienced it in FCCPS, it’s a flawed philosophy that does not work in HS. Teachers not allowed to average grades so students have no idea how they are doing overall in the class. Tons of formative assessments that do not count for a grade and very few summative assessments that do count, so that the year end grade may be based on just a couple of assessments per quarter, which unnecessarily increases stress and may not reflect how much a student actually learned throughout the year. Grades based only on “growth” and more subjective and less transparent than traditional grading even though purportedly providing more feedback (which it hasn’t). Requires way too much training of teachers and additional work by teachers, even though many or most dislike it. And so overly complicated that the students don’t understand it and even after attending 3-4 information sessions, parents still could not understand it. All of that is apart from the problems in implementation.

FCCPS explained that the philosophy is like training for the Olympics - you have tons of practice and training but the only thing that counts is the actual Olympic performance. Seems like a terrible model for high school education, particularly when schools claim to care about students experiencing too much pressure and stress.

To FCCPS’s credit, they have recognized that it has real problems and it seems that they are not pushing it as strongly at the high school as before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not just a problem with implementation or communication. As we’ve experienced it in FCCPS, it’s a flawed philosophy that does not work in HS. Teachers not allowed to average grades so students have no idea how they are doing overall in the class. Tons of formative assessments that do not count for a grade and very few summative assessments that do count, so that the year end grade may be based on just a couple of assessments per quarter, which unnecessarily increases stress and may not reflect how much a student actually learned throughout the year. Grades based only on “growth” and more subjective and less transparent than traditional grading even though purportedly providing more feedback (which it hasn’t). Requires way too much training of teachers and additional work by teachers, even though many or most dislike it. And so overly complicated that the students don’t understand it and even after attending 3-4 information sessions, parents still could not understand it. All of that is apart from the problems in implementation.

FCCPS explained that the philosophy is like training for the Olympics - you have tons of practice and training but the only thing that counts is the actual Olympic performance. Seems like a terrible model for high school education, particularly when schools claim to care about students experiencing too much pressure and stress.

To FCCPS’s credit, they have recognized that it has real problems and it seems that they are not pushing it as strongly at the high school as before.

FCCPS compare this to training for the Olympics (only final performance counts, nothing else does)… well, how do they explain the “unlimited retakes on final exams” policy then? Olympics don’t do re-match. LMAO. What a shit show everywhere at public schools.

[Anonymous]

More on this subject here:

https://wtop.com/arlington/2023/05/retakes-accepting-late-assignments-among-proposed-changes-to-arlington-schools-grading-policy/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an excellent letter and the Wakefield teachers are absolutely right.

100% agree, excellent letter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Equitable grading" practices vary based on how the concept is implemented, but the primary stated goal of proponents is to combat "institutional bias" and eliminate racial disparities in grade outcomes through a variety of tactics. Among the least controversial is the removal of grade penalties for late assignments and the ability to retake or redo assignments, often on an unlimited basis.

But proponents of the novel grading practices also advocate the elimination of "zero grades" by using a 50-100 scale. Under that scale, a student cannot receive a grade lower than 50, even if the assignment was never submitted, thereby creating a much higher grade floor and enabling students to achieve passing grades more easily.

Key Points of "Grading for Equity" at APS:

1. no late penalty on homework or any class assignment
2. allow unlimited retakes and redos
3. 50% min. score (even if you did nothing)
4. homework can't count towards grades
5. Final exams weigh heavily (but don't forget point #2 above)
6. attendance can't count towards grades (hey if you think you can pass that final exam, no need to come to class anymore)

Basically, every student will pass their courses, no more fails. achievement gap will be closed.

All based on just a random guy's book, not research based. No data support. Sounds familiar? yes, Joe Feldman is the new Lucy Calkins.

I hate all of this. Shame on APS leadership and the central office for proposing this detrimental nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Equitable grading" practices vary based on how the concept is implemented, but the primary stated goal of proponents is to combat "institutional bias" and eliminate racial disparities in grade outcomes through a variety of tactics. Among the least controversial is the removal of grade penalties for late assignments and the ability to retake or redo assignments, often on an unlimited basis.

But proponents of the novel grading practices also advocate the elimination of "zero grades" by using a 50-100 scale. Under that scale, a student cannot receive a grade lower than 50, even if the assignment was never submitted, thereby creating a much higher grade floor and enabling students to achieve passing grades more easily.

Key Points of "Grading for Equity" at APS:

1. no late penalty on homework or any class assignment
2. allow unlimited retakes and redos
3. 50% min. score (even if you did nothing)
4. homework can't count towards grades
5. Final exams weigh heavily (but don't forget point #2 above)
6. attendance can't count towards grades (hey if you think you can pass that final exam, no need to come to class anymore)

Basically, every student will pass their courses, no more fails. achievement gap will be closed.

All based on just a random guy's book, not research based. No data support. Sounds familiar? yes, Joe Feldman is the new Lucy Calkins.

I hate all of this. Shame on APS leadership and the central office for proposing this detrimental nonsense.

Given the Wakefield teachers' excellent letter, why is this proposal still going through? With as persuasive a letter as that, the proposal should have been shelved permanently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Equitable grading" practices vary based on how the concept is implemented, but the primary stated goal of proponents is to combat "institutional bias" and eliminate racial disparities in grade outcomes through a variety of tactics. Among the least controversial is the removal of grade penalties for late assignments and the ability to retake or redo assignments, often on an unlimited basis.

But proponents of the novel grading practices also advocate the elimination of "zero grades" by using a 50-100 scale. Under that scale, a student cannot receive a grade lower than 50, even if the assignment was never submitted, thereby creating a much higher grade floor and enabling students to achieve passing grades more easily.

Key Points of "Grading for Equity" at APS:

1. no late penalty on homework or any class assignment
2. allow unlimited retakes and redos
3. 50% min. score (even if you did nothing)
4. homework can't count towards grades
5. Final exams weigh heavily (but don't forget point #2 above)
6. attendance can't count towards grades (hey if you think you can pass that final exam, no need to come to class anymore)

Basically, every student will pass their courses, no more fails. achievement gap will be closed.

All based on just a random guy's book, not research based. No data support. Sounds familiar? yes, Joe Feldman is the new Lucy Calkins.

I hate all of this. Shame on APS leadership and the central office for proposing this detrimental nonsense.

Given the Wakefield teachers' excellent letter, why is this proposal still going through? With as persuasive a letter as that, the proposal should have been shelved permanently.

Maybe because they are not hearing from parents? have any of you spoken against it at a school board meeting? organized a petition? written a letter to the school board? to the editor?

or do you just want to complain anon on DCUM and let it pass?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More on this subject here:

https://wtop.com/arlington/2023/05/retakes-accepting-late-assignments-among-proposed-changes-to-arlington-schools-grading-policy/

I’m a teacher. This gives me hope that they are not sold on the automatic half credit for no work. But the decision isn’t made yet, and they do need to hear from parents. It is very true that teachers’ feelings about these things are disregarded. They’ll find a few that will agree with them- usually those with leadership aspirations- and pretend they speak for all of us. Look at how much they took the Wakefield teachers who have actually had to put this nonsense into practice and expressed concerns into account.

This sort of thing actually undermines equity efforts. They close the achievement gap on paper, but it’s not doing any of the kids any favors. I can only imagine the absenteeism. Or the straight A students that can’t pass an SOL or hold down a job. How could we say in good conscience that we’ve actually educated them and prepared them for the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More on this subject here:

https://wtop.com/arlington/2023/05/retakes-accepting-late-assignments-among-proposed-changes-to-arlington-schools-grading-policy/

I’m a teacher. This gives me hope that they are not sold on the automatic half credit for no work. But the decision isn’t made yet, and they do need to hear from parents. It is very true that teachers’ feelings about these things are disregarded. They’ll find a few that will agree with them- usually those with leadership aspirations- and pretend they speak for all of us. Look at how much they took the Wakefield teachers who have actually had to put this nonsense into practice and expressed concerns into account.

This sort of thing actually undermines equity efforts. They close the achievement gap on paper, but it’s not doing any of the kids any favors. I can only imagine the absenteeism. Or the straight A students that can’t pass an SOL or hold down a job. How could we say in good conscience that we’ve actually educated them and prepared them for the world?

I'm a parent who has been confidently anti-SBG from the beginning. I will admit that the revised definitions from "exceeds/meets/approaching expectations" is an improvement, even though re-defining the exceeds part is a wash, IMO. Other than that, I continue to be confidently and strongly anti-SBG. We don't need a whole new grading system to use those improved terms and definitions.

[Anonymous]

When will people learn that equity in grading only lowers the bar and does not raise it.

For those kids going off to college they will be in for a rude awakening when they ask the professor for a retake exam.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid with learning disabilities and the increased flexibility around assignments has been amazing. Also, his school offers test corrections and retakes only after you’ve do test corrections for partial credit. I like that they go back and master the material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid with learning disabilities and the increased flexibility around assignments has been amazing. Also, his school offers test corrections and retakes only after you’ve do test corrections for partial credit. I like that they go back and master the material.

I think this is absolutely fine for kids with LDs - accommodations are precisely what IEPs are for. And that's what should be happening on a case-by-case basis, not a blanket approach for everyone.