APS and Grading for Equity - Discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally I care more about good work habits and high standards for all students. I’m not all that supportive of the SOLs which were the result of No Child Left Behind in the 00s.

Without SOLs, there would be no accountability, every student gets As (even students who skip 100% of class).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Critics of grading for equity say there is not enough empirical data or experience to suggest that the purported successes of the approach could work at scale. But Feldman says his book is replete with research citations, and he produced a 2018 report, School Grading Policies Are Failing Children: A Call to Action for Equitable Grading, with data from external evaluators culled from a survey of grading in two districts before and after they adopted equitable grading practices. The first district, comprising four suburban or rural high schools, surveyed 3,700 grades issued by 24 teachers. The second was an urban district with two middle schools and one high school where 10,000 grades issued by 37 teachers were charted. In both cases the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As. The report’s data also show a narrowing of achievement gaps between white and nonwhite students and between students of varying socioeconomic backgrounds.

Read the paragraph above and note the bolded words.

1. Feldman's data = 24 + 37 teachers. In vaccine terms, the vaccine trail hasn't even started but FDA (schools) are mandating it on kids.
2. "the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As" - how is inflating grades from F to pass & bring down top students' performance being touted as a success?

That’s the definition of reducing the achievement gap. What I’m unsure of is how this revolutionary approach to grading, homework, performance and student work affects the standardized test scores that actually determine a school’s accreditation.

Next on the agenda is to permanently eliminate those standardized tests, because "students are passing their classes but failing their SOLs, something must be wrong with the SOLs." or "SOL exams do not match students' grades", or "there is significant discrepancy between students' grades and their SOL scores". However, Feldman thinks final exams (that can be retaken unlimited times) should account for 100% of the grades, homework, class assignments/projects, attendance, efforts should not count at all. Somehow final exams are magic fix all, but SOL exams are bad.

The move away from SOLs has already begun. In 2017, VA reduced the number of verified credits needed for an advanced studies diploma (9VC to 5VC) and a standard diploma (6VC to 5VC). (Verified credits are awarded when a student passes the SOL in the associated class.) Once a student has the VCs needed for their diploma, they don't need to take further SOLs. This has reduced the number of students taking SOLs in courses impacted by the change.
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/parents-students/for-students/graduation/diploma-options

Without SOL exams or other state-wide standardized test, you'd never know how your kids are really doing academically, or that 23 Baltimore schools have 0% of students on grade level in math.

There were standardized tests before the SOLs that we all had to take in the 90s, for those that grew up here. Those were fine and actually a bit more challenging if I recall, but didn’t take up as much time. There was also much less teaching to the test before the SOLs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally I care more about good work habits and high standards for all students. I’m not all that supportive of the SOLs which were the result of No Child Left Behind in the 00s.

SOLs were implemented in the late 1990s, before NCLB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I care more about good work habits and high standards for all students. I’m not all that supportive of the SOLs which were the result of No Child Left Behind in the 00s.

SOLs were implemented in the late 1990s, before NCLB.

I just missed out on the new SOLs. Graduated in 98 so took the previous tests. But much less teaching to the test back then. I thought that was a better approach to standardized testing.

[Anonymous]

The teaching to the test happens because these are higher stakes tests for schools. We always tell our kids, this is a test of the school, not of you. And I do not let a kid retake the SOL if they "almost" pass. The school wants that; not me or my kid. I had standardized tests as a kid too. Not annual like SOLs, but remember taking them. Remember learning practice skills for taking them.

I don't love how much time they take up or the focus APS puts on them (special study groups and homework coming home to help with SOLs). On the other hand, as other metrics get more useless like the standards based grades that tell you nothing, SOLs and the other normed assessments like DIBELs and math inventory are much more helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The teaching to the test happens because these are higher stakes tests for schools. We always tell our kids, this is a test of the school, not of you. And I do not let a kid retake the SOL if they "almost" pass. The school wants that; not me or my kid. I had standardized tests as a kid too. Not annual like SOLs, but remember taking them. Remember learning practice skills for taking them.

I don't love how much time they take up or the focus APS puts on them (special study groups and homework coming home to help with SOLs). On the other hand, as other metrics get more useless like the standards based grades that tell you nothing, SOLs and the other normed assessments like DIBELs and math inventory are much more helpful.

This is true. I feel like these are the only way I can understand how my kid is actually doing in class. Ideally schools would just organically cover the information on the SOL during the year and then take the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The teaching to the test happens because these are higher stakes tests for schools. We always tell our kids, this is a test of the school, not of you. And I do not let a kid retake the SOL if they "almost" pass. The school wants that; not me or my kid. I had standardized tests as a kid too. Not annual like SOLs, but remember taking them. Remember learning practice skills for taking them.

I don't love how much time they take up or the focus APS puts on them (special study groups and homework coming home to help with SOLs). On the other hand, as other metrics get more useless like the standards based grades that tell you nothing, SOLs and the other normed assessments like DIBELs and math inventory are much more helpful.

Very good point. I agree, despite my earlier misgivings over the SOLs. The standards based grading is the issue. The SOLs provide a good check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone believe the SB will actually listen to teachers? I'm nervous they're really just interested in the progressive fad of the day. I have no faith in them.

You are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone believe the SB will actually listen to teachers? I'm nervous they're really just interested in the progressive fad of the day. I have no faith in them.

You are correct.

Our school board members mean well. Some are even reasonably good (mary is very good). But they only seem to know what Syphax tells them. They're not listening to teachers and they dismiss parent voices that cause cognitive dissonance. Grading for Equity is absolutely the latest fad with the flimsiest of bases. Why APS is charging full steam ahead rather than analyzing what teachers have reported where it's been partially rolled out and critically considering its claim and thin evidence is beyond me.

Lucy Caulkins hurt those kids who needed real reading instruction and not. Some of them are still in APS. But the damage was largely contained to students who needed more help. Grading for Equity will be far more damaging to APS and to more students. Teachers don't like it, parents don't like it, we'll see the evidence in SOLs and other assessments that the claims don't hold up to scrutiny.

[Anonymous]

Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

Admins at APS have one goal and only that goal matters: close achievement gap. They aren't doing it through academic support, they are doing it through inflating grades in the name of "equity". This new initiative will cause way more harm than Lucy Calkins. All the teachers I spoke to said they wouldn't want their own children to be taught this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

How is it going at Meridian? Is there a link to anything to share?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

I doubt APS cares. They are all in. But send it to the school board. Go make a public comment. Go to office hours. Don’t assume someone else is going to bring it to their attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

I’m a Madison parent trying to find a school where SBG is successful. Instead, all I find is that it’s not working and the reason is always “better implementation is needed.” I think it may be so confusing that it’s impossible to implement consistently. This article of a school in MA describes similar situation to what we have at Madison right now and the administration’s response is the same - improvements planned but no mention of going back to what worked well before. There is a link to the video of SB meeting in the article.

https://theswellesleyreport.com/2023/03/wellesley-high-parents-pan-standards-based-grading-school-leaders-say-improvements-planned/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone earlier posted that it’s been a disaster in FCCPS’s high school, Meridian. In FCPS at Madison there are numerous issues. Is APS aware of the problems in the neighboring school districts?

I’m a Madison parent trying to find a school where SBG is successful. Instead, all I find is that it’s not working and the reason is always “better implementation is needed.” I think it may be so confusing that it’s impossible to implement consistently. This article of a school in MA describes similar situation to what we have at Madison right now and the administration’s response is the same - improvements planned but no mention of going back to what worked well before. There is a link to the video of SB meeting in the article.

https://theswellesleyreport.com/2023/03/wellesley-high-parents-pan-standards-based-grading-school-leaders-say-improvements-planned/

Why doesn't anyone consider running both systems simultaneously, side-by-side, until (if and when) the SBG IS implemented better? Tricky, I know; but better than a lousy, ineffective system indefinitely while improvements continue to be pending.