APS and Grading for Equity - Discuss

[Anonymous]

*struggle, not strubble. Typing too fast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two Maryland high school women graduates working for me. Both are functionally illiterate.

Both women are smart but they went to poor school districts in one of the poorest counties in Maryland.

I asked the one who is a supervisor to write a recommendation letter for another employee. The letter was embarrassing.

Both women will never move beyond low end jobs due to being illiterate. It is sad because both women are smart. They were poorly served by the school district.

A high school degree should mean that you can write a proper sentence and be able to do basic math.

Wow, that is damning (I believe you). I do think there is one other part that will determine the outcome: attitude. You can work hard to bring yourself up to scratch or even excel at any age, but I’m worried that the new policy really emphasizes no consequences for bad attitudes, with no rewards for good attitudes and work ethics. And also promotes that everyone should feel entitled to unlimited re-do’s and no accountability… believing that their subpar performances are great.

More manufactured “concern”.

It encourages learning the material. It encourages more kid to try and improve.

And it encourages others to NOT study and prepare the first time. It also deflates the spirit and motivation of students who don't need all the re-takes and second chances because they did their work and studied but are now getting the same grades as students who didn't put in the effort along the way. SOME students may be encouraged more because they know they'll have a second chance if they don't do well the first time. But let's not deny or dismiss the notion that other students may be negatively influenced.

No, it doesn’t. Retakes are time consuming and reduce total points possible.

Fake news.

Your "fake news" is my reality. So please stop it.

Tell your kid to forget what other kids are doing and focus on their own growth.

Your kid should be happy for other kids who are learning the material.

My kids are frustrated that there are kids in their 6th grade English class who can't read and the retests are papering it over. They just hope those kids don't pick intensified English next year.

Why are they worried about what other kids are doing?

They aren't able to do anything more than read passages (not a single novel assigned all year and only one short story) in school because some of the kids just can't handle it. Wouldn't that bother you if you were a student?

Kids are grouped by ability into clusters.

Maybe focus on getting your own kid to read instead of worrying about others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids are frustrated that there are kids in their 6th grade English class who can't read and the retests are papering it over. They just hope those kids don't pick intensified English next year.

Why are they worried about what other kids are doing?

Not PP, but here's why. APS is committed to getting more traditionally under-represented kids into the Intensified classes and having them succeed. If too many unprepared kids end up in the intensified classes and then strubble, the teachers will end up having to lower their teaching standards and intensified will essentially end up being no more challenging than the standard class. I have two middle schoolers and this is especially an issue for my rising eighth grader who is sick of having classes disrupted by kids who clearly don't want to be there and don't care about learning. He is hoping intensified will be a bit more [google]self-selecting[b] and will be comprised of students who are there because they actually want to learn and are ready to learn at a more challenging level.

So no need for gate keeping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be fine with retakes if the test were different every time. Then the student would still be on the hook for the curriculum rather than performing sanctioned cheating.

In our school, the tests don’t change.

And who has to write the new exam?

This is an unreasonable imposition on teachers (if teachers want to do it, fine)

But obviously re-answering the same exact questions doesn't show same mastery as answering correctly the first time. This is why retests are a bad idea.

Or students can just correct the incorrect answers and get partial credit. If it's a math problem, they still have to "show their work" to demonstrate how they got to the correct answer. So, isn't that like answering a new question? If it's a short answer or essay, they need to re-write it with more accurate information, better-supported statements, more complete responses. That also demonstrates better understanding of the material and information.
I don't see a problem with that. Indeed, I wish my kids would actually get their quizzes and exams back with sufficient comments from their teachers so that they CAN learn what they got wrong and why, and what they need to do to do better. A lot of quizzes are digital and "disappear" once submitted. Students just get a score, no information about what they got wrong or the ability to see the question and their response to try to figure out what they did/why they answered what they did, etc.

I've been opposed to "equitable grading" since I first heard of it. I will admit, however, that through the course of reading other's opinions and descriptions and experiences, that aspects of it are beneficial IF DONE RIGHT. Retaking multiple times per se isn't "doing it right." It's the feedback and correcting IN A TIMELY MANNER, including doing the assignments when they are assigned and due, that are beneficial.

It’s been great for my kids. Certainly more motivating.

I support anything that keeps kids engaged and motivated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids are frustrated that there are kids in their 6th grade English class who can't read and the retests are papering it over. They just hope those kids don't pick intensified English next year.

Why are they worried about what other kids are doing?

Not PP, but here's why. APS is committed to getting more traditionally under-represented kids into the Intensified classes and having them succeed. If too many unprepared kids end up in the intensified classes and then strubble, the teachers will end up having to lower their teaching standards and intensified will essentially end up being no more challenging than the standard class. I have two middle schoolers and this is especially an issue for my rising eighth grader who is sick of having classes disrupted by kids who clearly don't want to be there and don't care about learning. He is hoping intensified will be a bit more [b]self-selecting[b] and will be comprised of students who are there because they actually want to learn and are ready to learn at a more challenging level.

So no need for gate keeping.

APS is actively not gatekeeping, the exact opposite in fact. It's the families who actually want real rigor that wish there was going to be some form of gatekeeping so that intensified don't get pulled back down in the name of the same equity and tolerance of behavior issues that's pulling down the standard classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be fine with retakes if the test were different every time. Then the student would still be on the hook for the curriculum rather than performing sanctioned cheating.

In our school, the tests don’t change.

And who has to write the new exam?

This is an unreasonable imposition on teachers (if teachers want to do it, fine)

But obviously re-answering the same exact questions doesn't show same mastery as answering correctly the first time. This is why retests are a bad idea.

+1
Re-taking the exact same multiple choice test you now have the answers to several times, especially if it’s less than 20 questions… is for absolute morons, I’m sorry.

I understand everyone has a bad day sometimes, and deserves a second chance, I understand there are stresses and anxieties around tests, in addition to the clear benefit to discuss wrong answers and be able to learn. I’m not categorically against an option to retake at all. However, the proposed policy seems to render any testing useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two Maryland high school women graduates working for me. Both are functionally illiterate.

Both women are smart but they went to poor school districts in one of the poorest counties in Maryland.

I asked the one who is a supervisor to write a recommendation letter for another employee. The letter was embarrassing.

Both women will never move beyond low end jobs due to being illiterate. It is sad because both women are smart. They were poorly served by the school district.

A high school degree should mean that you can write a proper sentence and be able to do basic math.

Wow, that is damning (I believe you). I do think there is one other part that will determine the outcome: attitude. You can work hard to bring yourself up to scratch or even excel at any age, but I’m worried that the new policy really emphasizes no consequences for bad attitudes, with no rewards for good attitudes and work ethics. And also promotes that everyone should feel entitled to unlimited re-do’s and no accountability… believing that their subpar performances are great.

More manufactured “concern”.

It encourages learning the material. It encourages more kid to try and improve.

And it encourages others to NOT study and prepare the first time. It also deflates the spirit and motivation of students who don't need all the re-takes and second chances because they did their work and studied but are now getting the same grades as students who didn't put in the effort along the way. SOME students may be encouraged more because they know they'll have a second chance if they don't do well the first time. But let's not deny or dismiss the notion that other students may be negatively influenced.

No, it doesn’t. Retakes are time consuming and reduce total points possible.

Fake news.

Your "fake news" is my reality. So please stop it.

Tell your kid to forget what other kids are doing and focus on their own growth.

Your kid should be happy for other kids who are learning the material.

My kids are frustrated that there are kids in their 6th grade English class who can't read and the retests are papering it over. They just hope those kids don't pick intensified English next year.

Why are they worried about what other kids are doing?

They aren't able to do anything more than read passages (not a single novel assigned all year and only one short story) in school because some of the kids just can't handle it. Wouldn't that bother you if you were a student?

Kids are grouped by ability into clusters.

Maybe focus on getting your own kid to read instead of worrying about others.

But are they? Serious question, because MS and HS is still ahead of us, and I didn’t get the impression PP describes - this is not the AAP system of FFX after all. The kids are together in most classes, or are they not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two Maryland high school women graduates working for me. Both are functionally illiterate.

Both women are smart but they went to poor school districts in one of the poorest counties in Maryland.

I asked the one who is a supervisor to write a recommendation letter for another employee. The letter was embarrassing.

Both women will never move beyond low end jobs due to being illiterate. It is sad because both women are smart. They were poorly served by the school district.

A high school degree should mean that you can write a proper sentence and be able to do basic math.

Wow, that is damning (I believe you). I do think there is one other part that will determine the outcome: attitude. You can work hard to bring yourself up to scratch or even excel at any age, but I’m worried that the new policy really emphasizes no consequences for bad attitudes, with no rewards for good attitudes and work ethics. And also promotes that everyone should feel entitled to unlimited re-do’s and no accountability… believing that their subpar performances are great.

More manufactured “concern”.

It encourages learning the material. It encourages more kid to try and improve.

And it encourages others to NOT study and prepare the first time. It also deflates the spirit and motivation of students who don't need all the re-takes and second chances because they did their work and studied but are now getting the same grades as students who didn't put in the effort along the way. SOME students may be encouraged more because they know they'll have a second chance if they don't do well the first time. But let's not deny or dismiss the notion that other students may be negatively influenced.

No, it doesn’t. Retakes are time consuming and reduce total points possible.

Fake news.

Your "fake news" is my reality. So please stop it.

Tell your kid to forget what other kids are doing and focus on their own growth.

Your kid should be happy for other kids who are learning the material.

My kids are frustrated that there are kids in their 6th grade English class who can't read and the retests are papering it over. They just hope those kids don't pick intensified English next year.

Why are they worried about what other kids are doing?

They aren't able to do anything more than read passages (not a single novel assigned all year and only one short story) in school because some of the kids just can't handle it. Wouldn't that bother you if you were a student?

Kids are grouped by ability into clusters.

Maybe focus on getting your own kid to read instead of worrying about others.

My kids are not in clusters in English,they are also not allowed to read on their own when they finish their classwork during English class. Instead they sit there bored. This is unrelated to standards based grading but it is a frustrating situation. And yes they read on their own at home but it doesn't change the fact that their English class is a complete waste of their time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two Maryland high school women graduates working for me. Both are functionally illiterate.

Both women are smart but they went to poor school districts in one of the poorest counties in Maryland.

I asked the one who is a supervisor to write a recommendation letter for another employee. The letter was embarrassing.

Both women will never move beyond low end jobs due to being illiterate. It is sad because both women are smart. They were poorly served by the school district.

A high school degree should mean that you can write a proper sentence and be able to do basic math.

Wow, that is damning (I believe you). I do think there is one other part that will determine the outcome: attitude. You can work hard to bring yourself up to scratch or even excel at any age, but I’m worried that the new policy really emphasizes no consequences for bad attitudes, with no rewards for good attitudes and work ethics. And also promotes that everyone should feel entitled to unlimited re-do’s and no accountability… believing that their subpar performances are great.

More manufactured “concern”.

It encourages learning the material. It encourages more kid to try and improve.

And it encourages others to NOT study and prepare the first time. It also deflates the spirit and motivation of students who don't need all the re-takes and second chances because they did their work and studied but are now getting the same grades as students who didn't put in the effort along the way. SOME students may be encouraged more because they know they'll have a second chance if they don't do well the first time. But let's not deny or dismiss the notion that other students may be negatively influenced.

No, it doesn’t. Retakes are time consuming and reduce total points possible.

Fake news.

Your "fake news" is my reality. So please stop it.

Tell your kid to forget what other kids are doing and focus on their own growth.

Your kid should be happy for other kids who are learning the material.

My kids are frustrated that there are kids in their 6th grade English class who can't read and the retests are papering it over. They just hope those kids don't pick intensified English next year.

Why are they worried about what other kids are doing?

Not PP, but I can empathize. Students in a class who aren't really at that level bring down the quality and learning of the class for the ones who are. If students aren't actually ready for/capable of the higher level class, they shouldn't be in it.

[Anonymous]

I hope that these Wakefield teachers understand that they likely will not get any support on this from the new principal, Balas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two Maryland high school women graduates working for me. Both are functionally illiterate.

Both women are smart but they went to poor school districts in one of the poorest counties in Maryland.

I asked the one who is a supervisor to write a recommendation letter for another employee. The letter was embarrassing.

Both women will never move beyond low end jobs due to being illiterate. It is sad because both women are smart. They were poorly served by the school district.

A high school degree should mean that you can write a proper sentence and be able to do basic math.

Wow, that is damning (I believe you). I do think there is one other part that will determine the outcome: attitude. You can work hard to bring yourself up to scratch or even excel at any age, but I’m worried that the new policy really emphasizes no consequences for bad attitudes, with no rewards for good attitudes and work ethics. And also promotes that everyone should feel entitled to unlimited re-do’s and no accountability… believing that their subpar performances are great.

More manufactured “concern”.

It encourages learning the material. It encourages more kid to try and improve.

And it encourages others to NOT study and prepare the first time. It also deflates the spirit and motivation of students who don't need all the re-takes and second chances because they did their work and studied but are now getting the same grades as students who didn't put in the effort along the way. SOME students may be encouraged more because they know they'll have a second chance if they don't do well the first time. But let's not deny or dismiss the notion that other students may be negatively influenced.

No, it doesn’t. Retakes are time consuming and reduce total points possible.

Fake news.

Your "fake news" is my reality. So please stop it.

Tell your kid to forget what other kids are doing and focus on their own growth.

Your kid should be happy for other kids who are learning the material.

My kids are frustrated that there are kids in their 6th grade English class who can't read and the retests are papering it over. They just hope those kids don't pick intensified English next year.

Why are they worried about what other kids are doing?

They aren't able to do anything more than read passages (not a single novel assigned all year and only one short story) in school because some of the kids just can't handle it. Wouldn't that bother you if you were a student?

Kids are grouped by ability into clusters.

Maybe focus on getting your own kid to read instead of worrying about others.

But are they? Serious question, because MS and HS is still ahead of us, and I didn’t get the impression PP describes - this is not the AAP system of FFX after all. The kids are together in most classes, or are they not?

absolutely APS clusters like abilities together for reading. my kid knew it in 3rd grade and was a hot mess bc she knew she wasn’t on par w many of their peers and worse the group she was in did not get the attention they needed to catch up with others. BYE this was a fallout of lucy caulkins that is now being phased out. APS has a bunch of kids in MS and HS who have borderline dyslexia

We left APS and thank god we did bc we leaned our DC was a year behind her peers and managed lot rectify 3 years of APS neglect by teachers and administrators

[Anonymous]

Children need rigor and order. Take it away and they become like feral animals. Grading for equity offers no rigor and little order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be fine with retakes if the test were different every time. Then the student would still be on the hook for the curriculum rather than performing sanctioned cheating.

In our school, the tests don’t change.

And who has to write the new exam?

This is an unreasonable imposition on teachers (if teachers want to do it, fine)

But obviously re-answering the same exact questions doesn't show same mastery as answering correctly the first time. This is why retests are a bad idea.

+1
Re-taking the exact same multiple choice test you now have the answers to several times, especially if it’s less than 20 questions… is for absolute morons, I’m sorry.

I understand everyone has a bad day sometimes, and deserves a second chance, I understand there are stresses and anxieties around tests, in addition to the clear benefit to discuss wrong answers and be able to learn. I’m not categorically against an option to retake at all. However, the proposed policy seems to render any testing useless.

Students are not retaking the exact same test. Additionally, there are tasks they typically have to do before they can retake the test to show they’ve put in the work to learn the skill the 2nd time around. Things like redo assignments that were missed or wrong, attend help sessions etc.
It’s not just taking it over and over until the grade is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be fine with retakes if the test were different every time. Then the student would still be on the hook for the curriculum rather than performing sanctioned cheating.

In our school, the tests don’t change.

And who has to write the new exam?

This is an unreasonable imposition on teachers (if teachers want to do it, fine)

But obviously re-answering the same exact questions doesn't show same mastery as answering correctly the first time. This is why retests are a bad idea.

+1
Re-taking the exact same multiple choice test you now have the answers to several times, especially if it’s less than 20 questions… is for absolute morons, I’m sorry.

I understand everyone has a bad day sometimes, and deserves a second chance, I understand there are stresses and anxieties around tests, in addition to the clear benefit to discuss wrong answers and be able to learn. I’m not categorically against an option to retake at all. However, the proposed policy seems to render any testing useless.

Students are not retaking the exact same test. Additionally, there are tasks they typically have to do before they can retake the test to show they’ve put in the work to learn the skill the 2nd time around. Things like redo assignments that were missed or wrong, attend help sessions etc.
It’s not just taking it over and over until the grade is better.

So now the teacher has to write an endless variety of tests for each unit? And grade more and more assignments. Just one more thing to drive teachers out of the profession.

[Anonymous]

They keep missing the mark. It's not equity grading that's needed. It's equitable access to the services that would allow a student to get a good grade.

Right now, If you are wealthy, and your child struggles with reading, you hire a reading tutor. If you are wealthy and your child struggles with organization and ADHD, you hire an executive function coach. Same with math, writing, and so on.

Starting in middle school and then high school, so many teachers waste precious time telling students "learn to manage your time!" or "you need to have good time management and organization skills to succeed!" But no teachers ever bother to teach either. How do they think kids get these skills? Magic wand perhaps? But then again a good portion of teachers suck at both of those skills as well so I guess it's not realistic to suggest they teach them.