APS and Grading for Equity - Discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really hope the school board listens to the teachers. Teacher retention should really be their number 1 goal. If they are ignored we are just going to lose more

Ideally school board members are supportive of teachers. Not lead groups that embolden hostility towards teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny how they claim they "don't want to teach to the test". "Grading for (fake) equity" wants to only use final exam for grades, never mind the student never showed up to class, or did any homework, or completed a single project, or put in any effort, as long as that student pass the final exam (which btw he is entitled to unlimited number of attempts), he gets an A. Oh, if he didn't even come to the final exam, he gets 50%. How is this good for any one?

Grading for equity is nothing more than the new "Lucy Clakins/Whole Language".

They don't get to retake until they get an A. They need to pass. Maybe they get a chance to raise their grade; but at the very minimum, this approach should include a lowered final grade if the student requires multiple attempts. The student who gets an A the first time should be distinguished from the one who took 2 or 3 or 4 attempts. "Equity" isn't about identical outcomes. It's supposed to be about opportunity.

It depends on the school. Different schools and even teachers implement this differently. The Madison HS thread on the FCPS forum talks about this at length.

That doesn't surprise me at all. I believe SBG is much more subjective grading than the traditional grading scale. And initiatives being implemented differently in different schools is a hallmark characteristic of APS.

[Anonymous]

"Equitable grading" practices vary based on how the concept is implemented, but the primary stated goal of proponents is to combat "institutional bias" and eliminate racial disparities in grade outcomes through a variety of tactics. Among the least controversial is the removal of grade penalties for late assignments and the ability to retake or redo assignments, often on an unlimited basis.

But proponents of the novel grading practices also advocate the elimination of "zero grades" by using a 50-100 scale. Under that scale, a student cannot receive a grade lower than 50, even if the assignment was never submitted, thereby creating a much higher grade floor and enabling students to achieve passing grades more easily.

Key Points of "Grading for Equity" at APS:

1. no late penalty on homework or any class assignment
2. allow unlimited retakes and redos
3. 50% min. score (even if you did nothing)
4. homework can't count towards grades
5. Final exams weigh heavily (but don't forget point #2 above)
6. attendance can't count towards grades (hey if you think you can pass that final exam, no need to come to class anymore)

Basically, every student will pass their courses, no more fails. achievement gap will be closed.

All based on just a random guy's book, not research based. No data support. Sounds familiar? yes, Joe Feldman is the new Lucy Calkins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Equitable grading" practices vary based on how the concept is implemented, but the primary stated goal of proponents is to combat "institutional bias" and eliminate racial disparities in grade outcomes through a variety of tactics. Among the least controversial is the removal of grade penalties for late assignments and the ability to retake or redo assignments, often on an unlimited basis.

But proponents of the novel grading practices also advocate the elimination of "zero grades" by using a 50-100 scale. Under that scale, a student cannot receive a grade lower than 50, even if the assignment was never submitted, thereby creating a much higher grade floor and enabling students to achieve passing grades more easily.

Key Points of "Grading for Equity" at APS:

1. no late penalty on homework or any class assignment
2. allow unlimited retakes and redos
3. 50% min. score (even if you did nothing)
4. homework can't count towards grades
5. Final exams weigh heavily (but don't forget point #2 above)
6. attendance can't count towards grades (hey if you think you can pass that final exam, no need to come to class anymore)

Basically, every student will pass their courses, no more fails. achievement gap will be closed.

All based on just a random guy's book, not research based. No data support. Sounds familiar? yes, Joe Feldman is the new Lucy Calkins.

This is absolutely correct. Most shocking is that kids literally have zero consequences for cutting class. Sure their parents might be informed but no impact on class grade at all. So go ahead and cut class all you want, copy the assignments off someone and then retake until you learn the test enough to pass w a decent grade. Kids are smart and already gaming the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Equitable grading" practices vary based on how the concept is implemented, but the primary stated goal of proponents is to combat "institutional bias" and eliminate racial disparities in grade outcomes through a variety of tactics. Among the least controversial is the removal of grade penalties for late assignments and the ability to retake or redo assignments, often on an unlimited basis.

But proponents of the novel grading practices also advocate the elimination of "zero grades" by using a 50-100 scale. Under that scale, a student cannot receive a grade lower than 50, even if the assignment was never submitted, thereby creating a much higher grade floor and enabling students to achieve passing grades more easily.

Key Points of "Grading for Equity" at APS:

1. no late penalty on homework or any class assignment
2. allow unlimited retakes and redos
3. 50% min. score (even if you did nothing)
4. homework can't count towards grades
5. Final exams weigh heavily (but don't forget point #2 above)
6. attendance can't count towards grades (hey if you think you can pass that final exam, no need to come to class anymore)

Basically, every student will pass their courses, no more fails. achievement gap will be closed.

All based on just a random guy's book, not research based. No data support. Sounds familiar? yes, Joe Feldman is the new Lucy Calkins.

This is absolutely correct. Most shocking is that kids literally have zero consequences for cutting class. Sure their parents might be informed but no impact on class grade at all. So go ahead and cut class all you want, copy the assignments off someone and then retake until you learn the test enough to pass w a decent grade. Kids are smart and already gaming the system.

There are students who come to school at best 10% of the time but still pass the class. No consequence whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Critics of grading for equity say there is not enough empirical data or experience to suggest that the purported successes of the approach could work at scale. But Feldman says his book is replete with research citations, and he produced a 2018 report, School Grading Policies Are Failing Children: A Call to Action for Equitable Grading, with data from external evaluators culled from a survey of grading in two districts before and after they adopted equitable grading practices. The first district, comprising four suburban or rural high schools, surveyed 3,700 grades issued by 24 teachers. The second was an urban district with two middle schools and one high school where 10,000 grades issued by 37 teachers were charted. In both cases the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As. The report’s data also show a narrowing of achievement gaps between white and nonwhite students and between students of varying socioeconomic backgrounds.

Read the paragraph above and note the bolded words.

1. Feldman's data = 24 + 37 teachers. In vaccine terms, the vaccine trail hasn't even started but FDA (schools) are mandating it on kids.
2. "the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As" - how is inflating grades from F to pass & bring down top students' performance being touted as a success?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Critics of grading for equity say there is not enough empirical data or experience to suggest that the purported successes of the approach could work at scale. But Feldman says his book is replete with research citations, and he produced a 2018 report, School Grading Policies Are Failing Children: A Call to Action for Equitable Grading, with data from external evaluators culled from a survey of grading in two districts before and after they adopted equitable grading practices. The first district, comprising four suburban or rural high schools, surveyed 3,700 grades issued by 24 teachers. The second was an urban district with two middle schools and one high school where 10,000 grades issued by 37 teachers were charted. In both cases the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As. The report’s data also show a narrowing of achievement gaps between white and nonwhite students and between students of varying socioeconomic backgrounds.

Read the paragraph above and note the bolded words.

1. Feldman's data = 24 + 37 teachers. In vaccine terms, the vaccine trail hasn't even started but FDA (schools) are mandating it on kids.
2. "the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As" - how is inflating grades from F to pass & bring down top students' performance being touted as a success?

That’s the definition of reducing the achievement gap. What I’m unsure of is how this revolutionary approach to grading, homework, performance and student work affects the standardized test scores that actually determine a school’s accreditation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Critics of grading for equity say there is not enough empirical data or experience to suggest that the purported successes of the approach could work at scale. But Feldman says his book is replete with research citations, and he produced a 2018 report, School Grading Policies Are Failing Children: A Call to Action for Equitable Grading, with data from external evaluators culled from a survey of grading in two districts before and after they adopted equitable grading practices. The first district, comprising four suburban or rural high schools, surveyed 3,700 grades issued by 24 teachers. The second was an urban district with two middle schools and one high school where 10,000 grades issued by 37 teachers were charted. In both cases the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As. The report’s data also show a narrowing of achievement gaps between white and nonwhite students and between students of varying socioeconomic backgrounds.

Read the paragraph above and note the bolded words.

1. Feldman's data = 24 + 37 teachers. In vaccine terms, the vaccine trail hasn't even started but FDA (schools) are mandating it on kids.
2. "the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As" - how is inflating grades from F to pass & bring down top students' performance being touted as a success?

That’s the definition of reducing the achievement gap. What I’m unsure of is how this revolutionary approach to grading, homework, performance and student work affects the standardized test scores that actually determine a school’s accreditation.

Next on the agenda is to permanently eliminate those standardized tests, because "students are passing their classes but failing their SOLs, something must be wrong with the SOLs." or "SOL exams do not match students' grades", or "there is significant discrepancy between students' grades and their SOL scores". However, Feldman thinks final exams (that can be retaken unlimited times) should account for 100% of the grades, homework, class assignments/projects, attendance, efforts should not count at all. Somehow final exams are magic fix all, but SOL exams are bad.

[Anonymous]

I’m glad the Wakefield teachers made their objections known. Standards-based grading has been a disaster in FCCPS at the high school level. And they don’t even give final exams anymore in most subjects. Kids going to college are going to have a rude awakening when they get there.

[Anonymous]

I have an “A” and “B” student entering high school. What will that even mean when he graduates? If they implement this system, unless he takes all AP or IB classes, his grades and hard work will be meaningless.

I’ve been teaching for fifteen years. Some of this stuff is good, but was always common sense. For example, I believe late work should be accepted without a massive penalty.

But giving kids that haven’t done anything- shoot, haven’t even come to class- half credit in the name of equity? That is ridiculous. In my classes, as other teachers have stated, a kid could come two or three days a quarter, do no make-up work, and still pass. It is complete and utter nonsense, and will do away with any kind of integrity an APS education had at all.

It’s time to rally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an “A” and “B” student entering high school. What will that even mean when he graduates? If they implement this system, unless he takes all AP or IB classes, his grades and hard work will be meaningless.

I’ve been teaching for fifteen years. Some of this stuff is good, but was always common sense. For example, I believe late work should be accepted without a massive penalty.

But giving kids that haven’t done anything- shoot, haven’t even come to class- half credit in the name of equity? That is ridiculous. In my classes, as other teachers have stated, a kid could come two or three days a quarter, do no make-up work, and still pass. It is complete and utter nonsense, and will do away with any kind of integrity an APS education had at all.

It’s time to rally.

It’s time to read the riot act to the school board. And vote for Miranda this week - only 2 more voting days! Mirandaturner.org

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Critics of grading for equity say there is not enough empirical data or experience to suggest that the purported successes of the approach could work at scale. But Feldman says his book is replete with research citations, and he produced a 2018 report, School Grading Policies Are Failing Children: A Call to Action for Equitable Grading, with data from external evaluators culled from a survey of grading in two districts before and after they adopted equitable grading practices. The first district, comprising four suburban or rural high schools, surveyed 3,700 grades issued by 24 teachers. The second was an urban district with two middle schools and one high school where 10,000 grades issued by 37 teachers were charted. In both cases the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As. The report’s data also show a narrowing of achievement gaps between white and nonwhite students and between students of varying socioeconomic backgrounds.

Read the paragraph above and note the bolded words.

1. Feldman's data = 24 + 37 teachers. In vaccine terms, the vaccine trail hasn't even started but FDA (schools) are mandating it on kids.
2. "the number of Ds and Fs declined, as did the number of As" - how is inflating grades from F to pass & bring down top students' performance being touted as a success?

That’s the definition of reducing the achievement gap. What I’m unsure of is how this revolutionary approach to grading, homework, performance and student work affects the standardized test scores that actually determine a school’s accreditation.

When people talk about reducing the achievement gap, they’re not talking about changing the yardstick so it magically disappears. And you’re right that it will show up in these other assessments. Too late to make a difference for kids who will just get passed along while APS crows about reducing the achievement gap.

Someone said on the other thread, with actual seriousness, that the author shows there is evidence that it reduces the achievement gap. Yeah, everyone passes, no achievement gap. Fixed it! People actually believe in this snake oil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Equitable grading" practices vary based on how the concept is implemented, but the primary stated goal of proponents is to combat "institutional bias" and eliminate racial disparities in grade outcomes through a variety of tactics. Among the least controversial is the removal of grade penalties for late assignments and the ability to retake or redo assignments, often on an unlimited basis.

But proponents of the novel grading practices also advocate the elimination of "zero grades" by using a 50-100 scale. Under that scale, a student cannot receive a grade lower than 50, even if the assignment was never submitted, thereby creating a much higher grade floor and enabling students to achieve passing grades more easily.

Key Points of "Grading for Equity" at APS:

1. no late penalty on homework or any class assignment
2. allow unlimited retakes and redos
3. 50% min. score (even if you did nothing)
4. homework can't count towards grades
5. Final exams weigh heavily (but don't forget point #2 above)
6. attendance can't count towards grades (hey if you think you can pass that final exam, no need to come to class anymore)

Basically, every student will pass their courses, no more fails. achievement gap will be closed.

All based on just a random guy's book, not research based. No data support. Sounds familiar? yes, Joe Feldman is the new Lucy Calkins.

Some of these seem oddly based on negative stereotypes like POC not being able to attend class on time, unable to meet deadlines, etc. But aside from that, are public schools just giving up on study habits and work ethic? If so then we need to start talking about charters as these schools are no longer serving the public interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an “A” and “B” student entering high school. What will that even mean when he graduates? If they implement this system, unless he takes all AP or IB classes, his grades and hard work will be meaningless.

I’ve been teaching for fifteen years. Some of this stuff is good, but was always common sense. For example, I believe late work should be accepted without a massive penalty.

But giving kids that haven’t done anything- shoot, haven’t even come to class- half credit in the name of equity? That is ridiculous. In my classes, as other teachers have stated, a kid could come two or three days a quarter, do no make-up work, and still pass. It is complete and utter nonsense, and will do away with any kind of integrity an APS education had at all.

It’s time to rally.

It’s time to read the riot act to the school board. And vote for Miranda this week - only 2 more voting days! Mirandaturner.org

Miranda doesn't oppose standards based grading. All she says on her website is that some don't understand the changes and terminology.

Then she talks about advancing equity.

Sounds like she is actually FOR SBG.

No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an “A” and “B” student entering high school. What will that even mean when he graduates? If they implement this system, unless he takes all AP or IB classes, his grades and hard work will be meaningless.

I’ve been teaching for fifteen years. Some of this stuff is good, but was always common sense. For example, I believe late work should be accepted without a massive penalty.

But giving kids that haven’t done anything- shoot, haven’t even come to class- half credit in the name of equity? That is ridiculous. In my classes, as other teachers have stated, a kid could come two or three days a quarter, do no make-up work, and still pass. It is complete and utter nonsense, and will do away with any kind of integrity an APS education had at all.

It’s time to rally.

It’s time to read the riot act to the school board. And vote for Miranda this week - only 2 more voting days! Mirandaturner.org

Miranda doesn't oppose standards based grading. All she says on her website is that some don't understand the changes and terminology.

Then she talks about advancing equity.

Sounds like she is actually FOR SBG.

No thanks.