APS and Grading for Equity - Discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am moving my son from Catholic school back to public for more flexible grading polices and extended homework time at APS. It is difficult for him currently complete homework and study some nights due to getting out from school extended day at 5 or 6 PM and then sports practices some evenings. (Yes, we think 11-year-olds should be allowed to play sports on several school weeknights nights after sitting indoors for most of the day, 8-6).

Catholic and private schools have rigid grading polices, points lost for late homework and NO test make-up or retake polices. One poor test grade and a missing homework assignment or 2 can bring a good student down to a "D" grade! And teachers do not care about outside commitments therefore will not give parents homework in advance for weekends.

I think a reasonable approach of a few extra days to turn in assignments or occasional test retakes to help boost a grade (but not totally wipe it out) is a good compromise.

If your son can't finish homework at night because of sports, you are over-scheduling. You also clearly don't value education as much you should be. If your kids need more time to focus on academics, you should find time by eliminating some sports.

I love how this "equity" thing is benefiting entitled and advantaged rich kids (by inflating his grades while he does no homework).

I agree that playing sports in ES should not be incompatible with school. But the solutions should not be getting rid of homework/deadlines. I would wonder what PP's kid was doing at aftercare everyday? My kids in public school went to aftercare and then to sports a few nights a week. But homework got done at aftercare. If they aren't doing homework there than PP's statement that they were sitting indoors until 6 doesn't make sense. Aftercare should be homework + play. At least that was our experience in public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hooray for the Wakefield teachers. It's time for APS to stop racing to the bottom. I'm a liberal who is all for most DEI initiatives but the policies they're choosing hurt everyone. What an insult to low-income or ESL families to lower standards in their names.

What I am loving is that the ESL families are actually coming out and calling for more structure. My my kid's APS middle school was proposing to eliminate letter grades, so many parents of all backgrounds came out against the proposal. During the PTA meeting with the principal on this topic, it was very clear that the school was quite surprised at the negative parent response. Leading questions about "how did you feel as a child when you received a bad grade?" were met with responses like "I thought I better study harder because I don't want to be the kind of person who gets bad grades and doesn't work to improve. That's not who I want to be". This was unanimously echoed by black, white, latino, and asian parents. I'm so happy the Wakefield teachers are coming out against this type of lowering of standards.

I say this as the child of poor, immigrant parents myself- kids will rise to meet expectations put on them. If you have no expectations for them, they will not rise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If your son can't finish homework at night because of sports, you are over-scheduling. You also clearly don't value education as much you should be. If your kids need more time to focus on academics, you should find time by eliminating some sports.

I love how this "equity" thing is benefiting entitled and advantaged rich kids (by inflating his grades while he does no homework).

Catholic school policy is 90 minutes to 2.5 hours daily for grades 6-8 and 45 to 90 minutes daily for grades 3-5. Doing homework at extended day is not a good option--short time frame and noisy.

Getting home from school late (because unentitled and disadvantaged parents have to commute and be present at a job site, never had the option to work from home or at Starbucks like most) then evening sports and homework, my son thankfully has little to no time for gaming, YouTube, TV and the other mindless activities YOUR kids are doing at home!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If your son can't finish homework at night because of sports, you are over-scheduling. You also clearly don't value education as much you should be. If your kids need more time to focus on academics, you should find time by eliminating some sports.

I love how this "equity" thing is benefiting entitled and advantaged rich kids (by inflating his grades while he does no homework).

Catholic school policy is 90 minutes to 2.5 hours daily for grades 6-8 and 45 to 90 minutes daily for grades 3-5. Doing homework at extended day is not a good option--short time frame and noisy.

Getting home from school late (because unentitled and disadvantaged parents have to commute and be present at a job site, never had the option to work from home or at Starbucks like most) then evening sports and homework, my son thankfully has little to no time for gaming, YouTube, TV and the other mindless activities YOUR kids are doing at home!

I think you can't call yourself disadvantaged when you can afford private school tuition and pay for sports (sounds like lots of sports).

[Anonymous]

I heard somewhere that people with a high school diploma are more successful than people with a GED, because a high school diploma requires more skills like completing long-term tasks and organization. It’s not all about what a kid knows.

Instead of getting rid of grading that requires skills beyond content knowledge, they should actually teach those skills. Kids in other areas have study skills classes. My nephew loved his and my SIL says that the class has been instrumental in his success in school.

Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

I really hope the school board listens to the teachers. Teacher retention should really be their number 1 goal. If they are ignored we are just going to lose more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am moving my son from Catholic school back to public for more flexible grading polices and extended homework time at APS. It is difficult for him currently complete homework and study some nights due to getting out from school extended day at 5 or 6 PM and then sports practices some evenings. (Yes, we think 11-year-olds should be allowed to play sports on several school weeknights nights after sitting indoors for most of the day, 8-6).

Catholic and private schools have rigid grading polices, points lost for late homework and NO test make-up or retake polices. One poor test grade and a missing homework assignment or 2 can bring a good student down to a "D" grade! And teachers do not care about outside commitments therefore will not give parents homework in advance for weekends.

I think a reasonable approach of a few extra days to turn in assignments or occasional test retakes to help boost a grade (but not totally wipe it out) is a good compromise.

Or you could just teach your kid responsibility.

[Anonymous]

It's funny how they claim they "don't want to teach to the test". "Grading for (fake) equity" wants to only use final exam for grades, never mind the student never showed up to class, or did any homework, or completed a single project, or put in any effort, as long as that student pass the final exam (which btw he is entitled to unlimited number of attempts), he gets an A. Oh, if he didn't even come to the final exam, he gets 50%. How is this good for any one?

Grading for equity is nothing more than the new "Lucy Clakins/Whole Language".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an excellent letter and the Wakefield teachers are absolutely right.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hooray for the Wakefield teachers. It's time for APS to stop racing to the bottom. I'm a liberal who is all for most DEI initiatives but the policies they're choosing hurt everyone. What an insult to low-income or ESL families to lower standards in their names.

Wholeheartedly agree.
And it speaks volumes that the pushback came from the teachers at the highest-minority/most economically disadvantaged high school. If admin doesn't take that notice, that's just more evidence that APS is more interested in the politically-progressive fad of the day than actual effective measures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hooray for the Wakefield teachers. It's time for APS to stop racing to the bottom. I'm a liberal who is all for most DEI initiatives but the policies they're choosing hurt everyone. What an insult to low-income or ESL families to lower standards in their names.

What I am loving is that the ESL families are actually coming out and calling for more structure. My my kid's APS middle school was proposing to eliminate letter grades, so many parents of all backgrounds came out against the proposal. During the PTA meeting with the principal on this topic, it was very clear that the school was quite surprised at the negative parent response. Leading questions about "how did you feel as a child when you received a bad grade?" were met with responses like "I thought I better study harder because I don't want to be the kind of person who gets bad grades and doesn't work to improve. That's not who I want to be". This was unanimously echoed by black, white, latino, and asian parents. I'm so happy the Wakefield teachers are coming out against this type of lowering of standards.

I say this as the child of poor, immigrant parents myself- kids will rise to meet expectations put on them. If you have no expectations for them, they will not rise.

ALL OF THIS!!! Why the supposed expert professional educators in charge (many teachers, but particularly admin/central office) don't understand this, I just cannot figure out. It's about stats. APS wants better numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard somewhere that people with a high school diploma are more successful than people with a GED, because a high school diploma requires more skills like completing long-term tasks and organization. It’s not all about what a kid knows.

Instead of getting rid of grading that requires skills beyond content knowledge, they should actually teach those skills. Kids in other areas have study skills classes. My nephew loved his and my SIL says that the class has been instrumental in his success in school.

Just my two cents.

I think that would be a good idea. They don't seem to teach students how to take notes or how to study anymore. That's not something that most kids just innately "know." If these skills aren't going to be taught in individual classes, perhaps a specific "course" should be mandatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hooray for the Wakefield teachers. It's time for APS to stop racing to the bottom. I'm a liberal who is all for most DEI initiatives but the policies they're choosing hurt everyone. What an insult to low-income or ESL families to lower standards in their names.

What I am loving is that the ESL families are actually coming out and calling for more structure. My my kid's APS middle school was proposing to eliminate letter grades, so many parents of all backgrounds came out against the proposal. During the PTA meeting with the principal on this topic, it was very clear that the school was quite surprised at the negative parent response. Leading questions about "how did you feel as a child when you received a bad grade?" were met with responses like "I thought I better study harder because I don't want to be the kind of person who gets bad grades and doesn't work to improve. That's not who I want to be". This was unanimously echoed by black, white, latino, and asian parents. I'm so happy the Wakefield teachers are coming out against this type of lowering of standards.

I say this as the child of poor, immigrant parents myself- kids will rise to meet expectations put on them. If you have no expectations for them, they will not rise.

ALL OF THIS!!! Why the supposed expert professional educators in charge (many teachers, but particularly admin/central office) don't understand this, I just cannot figure out. It's about stats. APS wants better numbers.

Eliminating the achievement gap in the stats is indeed the goal of every school admin/school district

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's funny how they claim they "don't want to teach to the test". "Grading for (fake) equity" wants to only use final exam for grades, never mind the student never showed up to class, or did any homework, or completed a single project, or put in any effort, as long as that student pass the final exam (which btw he is entitled to unlimited number of attempts), he gets an A. Oh, if he didn't even come to the final exam, he gets 50%. How is this good for any one?

Grading for equity is nothing more than the new "Lucy Clakins/Whole Language".

They don't get to retake until they get an A. They need to pass. Maybe they get a chance to raise their grade; but at the very minimum, this approach should include a lowered final grade if the student requires multiple attempts. The student who gets an A the first time should be distinguished from the one who took 2 or 3 or 4 attempts. "Equity" isn't about identical outcomes. It's supposed to be about opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny how they claim they "don't want to teach to the test". "Grading for (fake) equity" wants to only use final exam for grades, never mind the student never showed up to class, or did any homework, or completed a single project, or put in any effort, as long as that student pass the final exam (which btw he is entitled to unlimited number of attempts), he gets an A. Oh, if he didn't even come to the final exam, he gets 50%. How is this good for any one?

Grading for equity is nothing more than the new "Lucy Clakins/Whole Language".

They don't get to retake until they get an A. They need to pass. Maybe they get a chance to raise their grade; but at the very minimum, this approach should include a lowered final grade if the student requires multiple attempts. The student who gets an A the first time should be distinguished from the one who took 2 or 3 or 4 attempts. "Equity" isn't about identical outcomes. It's supposed to be about opportunity.

It depends on the school. Different schools and even teachers implement this differently. The Madison HS thread on the FCPS forum talks about this at length.